New Build in Rosharon (south of Houston)

[bpcunning]

The PB probably does not follow the 2x recommendation. As indicated, the larger SWCG would allow more flexibility for you to run your pump for different lengths of time at different % output. The difference in price based on wholesale is probably minor for the PB but what he may try to charge you for the "upgrade" could be something different. It is worth asking and see what he gives you.
You can research what the retail price is for both units, so you have some understanding of the potential fee the PB may ask for.

Thanks for the input. I checked with our designer and he said he's read the same 2:1, but they don't do a ton of salt systems and the Hayward rep has told them they don't need to oversize it (I'd argue he's a little biased...). I did ask if we could swap out for the TCELL940, since the model was never specified in our contract and I had asked early on to upsize based on recommendations here. Given that the longest warranty is going to be tied to the PB install, I'd prefer to pay the upcharge (if there is one and it's reasonable of course) now as opposed to a few years down the road when I'd likely self install a replacement.

 

[HermanTX]

Thanks for the input. I checked with our designer and he said he's read the same 2:1, but they don't do a ton of salt systems and the Hayward rep has told them they don't need to oversize it (I'd argue he's a little biased...). I did ask if we could swap out for the TCELL940, since the model was never specified in our contract and I had asked early on to upsize based on recommendations here. Given that the longest warranty is going to be tied to the PB install, I'd prefer to pay the upcharge (if there is one and it's reasonable of course) now as opposed to a few years down the road when I'd likely self install a replacement.

Great. hope it works out. Keep us posted on your overall progress.

 

[Newdude]

They've covered you well above. I just wanted to point out that the smaller the unit, the sooner you are buying its replacement. Going 15k to 40k is almost triple the lifespan but it only costs about 40% more. The math works in your favor bigtime, and you'll be using whatever unit you purchase more than most the country.

 

[bpcunning]

PB offered to upgrade to the 940 for $300. I would have preferred $0 of course, and $300 seems like the retail price difference, but I'm thinking that getting it now at the start and getting the installer warranty is worth it. Even if all I'm doing is partially pre-paying the replacement, I've gathered that the greater control over chlorine generation is just as if not more valuable. Thanks for the input.

 

[bpcunning]

On another note, my yard has become a warzone, just missing the razorwire on either side of no man's land with all these trenches. Impressively it was all dug by spade and shovel, I had assumed a mini-excavator was the right tool for the job. Also while the plumbers did their thing yesterday, the electrical crew today is re-digging the same trenches that were closed up. PB said it's policy for each crew to mange their own trenches, but sure seems like a lot of repeat work. Regardless, both crews were careful enough not to cut my fiber and really only took out the sprinkler wires (which I was expecting to have reworked anyway), and have put in some long days and a lot of work.

Any thoughts on the layout of the pad? The PM said he prefers to oversize it (this is 3' x 12') and while this looks ample, I don't yet know what all I'll need to get in there and do. I already asked them about the blower location and that's typical for them, so it's staying put I guess.

 

[Newdude]

Also while the plumbers did their thing yesterday, the electrical crew today is re-digging the same trenches that were closed up. PB said it's policy for each crew to mange their own trenches, but sure seems like a lot of repeat work

If it helps any, they bid the job including digging. If they saved a bunch of labor with open trenches, they either wouldn't credit the PB, or the PB wouldn't credit you.

Any thoughts on the layout of the pad?

They did you no favors with the filter being buried like that. The other parts aren't terrible to get to while tiptoe-ing over plumbing, but doing it while carrying the filter lid, with nowhere to put it down.......... it gonna be a skootch awkward. Then you'll have to go back for the filters.

 

[HermanTX]

Any thoughts on the layout of the pad? The PM said he prefers to oversize it (this is 3' x 12') and while this looks ample, I don't yet know what all I'll need to get in there and do.

The plumber did a great job in using sweep elbows and 45 fittings to make the bends. The only 90-degree turns are where the Tee is on outlet of the pump, but it is good to have those faucets. He put in a spillover plumbing for the spa and used all Jandy never lube diverter valves. Also, the valves on the skimmers and main drain suction will give you good control to balance the suction lines.

They will probably want to mount the automation control box above the 2 pumps. You will need to have access to that so ensure there is space to step between the pumps or discuss with them alternative location of the control box but it will need to be relatively close to the pumps.

 

[bpcunning]

The plumber did a great job in using sweep elbows and 45 fittings to make the bends. The only 90-degree turns are where the Tee is on outlet of the pump, but it is good to have those faucets. He put in a spillover plumbing for the spa and used all Jandy never lube diverter valves. Also, the valves on the skimmers and main drain suction will give you good control to balance the suction lines.

They will probably want to mount the automation control box above the 2 pumps. You will need to have access to that so ensure there is space to step between the pumps or discuss with them alternative location of the control box but it will need to be relatively close to the pumps.

The plumbing looked quite a bit more compact than I expected, but I guess it's all there and clean enough to trace and work around. For the sheers it looks like I only have the valves on the back side of the wall (I don't have a picture but its just a standard PVC shutoff). I had thought there might be valves at the pad to balance them but with a VS pump I guess that's the means of adjustment. They installed valve actuators on the suction and return valves for the main pump yesterday.

I had talked to the PM about the control box, and he had the same idea I did about putting it farther to the side (closer to the backyard). The electrical crew spent a sold 10+ hours retrenching and wiring everything up, and other that the two signal wires that are clipped on the bricks (I guess they were short?) it looks quite clean and accessible. They also put in a second GFCI outlet at the back of the house close to the shallow end that I'm sure will come in handy for the robot and anything else on the patio or pool deck. There's a 50A main breaker n the garage for the pool equipment, 220v 20A each for pool pump, feature pump, blower, heater, surge, and 110v 20A each for the pool lights, pad lights, and GFCI outlets.

I'm hoping to tie the downspout between the box and pad into the surface drain once they put that in. It would be nice to have that drain somewhere else besides the side of the house now.

 

[HermanTX]

For the sheers it looks like I only have the valves on the back side of the wall (I don't have a picture but its just a standard PVC shutoff). I had thought there might be valves at the pad to balance them but with a VS pump I guess that's the means of adjustment.

Yes, best to control with the VS pump. The valve is there to isolate the sheers if there is a problem. If you have more then 1 sheer then the valve may be handy to fine tune the flow if needed because you have a common VS pump suppling multiple sheers.

that the two signal wires that are clipped on the bricks (I guess they were short?) it looks quite clean and accessible.

These are low voltage and do not need to be in a conduit. One should be the water temperature sensor and other may go to heater. You also will have cable from the SWCG and Pump to the control box.

They also put in a second GFCI outlet at the back of the house close to the shallow end that I'm sure will come in handy for the robot and anything else on the patio or pool deck.

Great. Perfect for robot.

'm hoping to tie the downspout between the box and pad into the surface drain once they put that in. It would be nice to have that drain somewhere else besides the side of the house now.

I had mine tie into an underground drain line. It basically goes straight downward into the ground. Do you have underground drainage? If not, you may need to either reposition the whole downspout, or just add an extension from the wall to about 4 ft out so you do not wash out any rocks or dirt from your pad.

New Question
What is that line to the far left that is part of the return that has a PVC ball valve on it? Why did they not put a 2 way diverter valve on that as they did with others? Does that go to a bubbler?

 

[bpcunning]

I had mine tie into an underground drain line. It basically goes straight downward into the ground. Do you have underground drainage? If not, you may need to either reposition the whole downspout, or just add an extension from the wall to about 4 ft out so you do not wash out any rocks or dirt from your pad.

The PB quoted 160' of 4" drain which will come down that side of the house and out to a pop-up on the curb. Hopefully I can talk them into tying at least that downspout in (there's 2 more on that corner of the house but they will have grass available). If not, then I will certainly need to extend the drainage away from the pad and plumbing.

New Question
What is that line to the far left that is part of the return that has a PVC ball valve on it? Why did they not put a 2 way diverter valve on that as they did with others? Does that go to a bubbler?

That was my thought. Unfortunately I don't have a schematic (which as an engineer and avid DIYer drives me nuts) and the PB just said they would go through everything in their Pool School when it's time to run it all. We have 3 bubblers on the tanning ledge which makes sense to me, though I would have thought since we had a dedicated feature pump they would use that for bubblers and sheers (and a valve to balance as needed). I should ask to be sure.

Question back to you. Is the PVB loop likely for the auto-fill? They tied into the water right before my sprinkler PVB for something, and made a note that we have whole-home filter/softener which is why they tapped underground and not at the spigot. I assumed that it functions like a 1 zone sprinkler and needs to meet the same code, thus the PVB loop (and another thing to insulate if we ever get another freeze...).

 

[HermanTX]

We have 3 bubblers on the tanning ledge which makes sense to me, though I would have thought since we had a dedicated feature pump they would use that for bubblers and sheers (and a valve to balance as needed). I should ask to be sure.

Yep, they could have tied all to the dedicated feature pump. That way you could run the bubblers when you are in spa mode if that was desirable. At least you can run the sheers when in spa mode which is good.

Question back to you. Is the PVB loop likely for the auto-fill? They tied into the water right before my sprinkler PVB for something, and made a note that we have whole-home filter/softener which is why they tapped underground and not at the spigot. I assumed that it functions like a 1 zone sprinkler and needs to meet the same code, thus the PVB loop (and another thing to insulate if we ever get another freeze...).

That is correct. Have you tested your tap water - pre water softener? Not sure if you purchased one of the preferred test kits yet. Test Kits Compared. If you have very high Calcium then you may want your autofill connected to the water softener plumbing. I don't have auto fill but my tap to the pool fill line (manual valve) is connected to my water softener plumbing. So once I get my calcium at right level it rarely moves much unless I drain and refill a portion of pool.

 

[CoachAlex]

The PB probably does not follow the 2x recommendation. As indicated, the larger SWCG would allow more flexibility for you to run your pump for different lengths of time at different % output. The difference in price based on wholesale is probably minor for the PB but what he may try to charge you for the "upgrade" could be something different. It is worth asking and see what he gives you.
You can research what the retail price is for both units, so you have some understanding of the potential fee the PB may ask for.

Well after a lengthy delay caused by the HOA not understanding the county permit requirements (or lack thereof for unincorporated areas), and me forgetting to sign the loan documents (... oops), we had our excavation last week, rebar the next day, and then yesterday the gunite crew did their thing. Just this afternoon the equipment was hauled over and I was told they would be out tomorrow to do the "long plumbing". So we went from a few weeks of sitting around to a whole lot of work done Friday-Friday. A couple progress pics are attached.

Also, while they only went with the Turbocell for 25k gallons (we'll be around 18k gallons total), it is the full OmniLogic system, and the rest of the equipment matches what they said it would be (7030 filter, VS 950 pumps, 500k Btu heater, etc). Is the 2:1 size rating on a SWCG something that is understood and should be expected, or is it more just for oversizing when possible to reduce wear and tear? Should there be much of a cost difference if I need to push back on getting the 40k?

what was your overall experience with this builder? Might be going their direction as builder of choice ….

 

[CoachAlex]

Yep, they could have tied all to the dedicated feature pump. That way you could run the bubblers when you are in spa mode if that was desirable. At least you can run the sheers when in spa mode which is good.


That is correct. Have you tested your tap water - pre water softener? Not sure if you purchased one of the preferred test kits yet. Test Kits Compared. If you have very high Calcium then you may want your autofill connected to the water softener plumbing. I don't have auto fill but my tap to the pool fill line (manual valve) is connected to my water softener plumbing. So once I get my calcium at right level it rarely moves much unless I drain and refill a portion of pool.

What was your overall experience with this PB