Need help bringing an old pool back to life

[slythic]

Those are two different types of cleaner. You first need to decide which cleaner you want. Suction side cleaners are good for pools that have small debris on the floor (small leaves and dirt), while a pressure side cleaner is better for pools with larger debris.


You cannot add a vacuum/suction line on to a return line. You can however put a pressure side cleaner on a return line. I think that is what you mean?

Yes, I meant installing a pressure side cleaner (for example, the Polaris 360) on a dedicated return line. The idea is to have that return line function as a standard return with an eyeball while not being used for vacuuming. If that works, I'll do that as I would like the extra return. Sounds like the best of both worlds to me! Am I missing something?

I don't have many large trees near the pool, only palms. I can't imagine anything other than small leaves or dirt at the bottom of my pool. Would the pressure side cleaner blow the dirt away instead of vacuuming?

 

[Divin Dave]

there will plenty of flow without a MD. The pump is going to provide X flow, whether the water comes from teh skimmer, the MD or a combination isnt all that relevent in a pool IMO.

Most main drains are installed with the primary intent of improving circulation (different than flow). Its been an debatable topic for several years if pools even need main drains or not. Many PB's will not even install a MD these days. There are TONS of pools without Main Drain, mine included and I have plenty of flow and circulation.

Secondarily, a lot of folks feel a main drain makes cleaning the pool a little easier because it sucks in some of the stuff that would settle in the deep end. By the same token, the drain cover collects leaves that can be a pain to dislodge them from the drain cover, depending of course on which cover is on it.

At the end of the day though, a MD is not going to have any large influence on the quality of the pool or the cleanliness of it.

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying dont do it or that you are doing the wrong thing. Everything has its' plus and minus' But if budget is tight, money spent on teh MD can easily be applied somewhere else that would provide a better return on the investment.

I'm 98% sure it's galvanized all the way through. I'll double check this weekend after I drain the pool again (lots of rain this week).

Assuming I plug the main drain, that would leave the skimmer as the only suction line in the pool (not counting the vacuum line but that won't be on all the time). I was under the impression there needed to be more than one suction line to provide the right "flow". Would two returns still be acceptable once the main drain is eliminated?

 

[mas985]

Suction side cleaners generally do better with dirt and sand. A pressure side cleaner will usually just blow the dirt right through the mesh bag. So you might want to plumb that extra port as a cleaner line for the suction side and use a suction side cleaner.

 

[slythic]

Suction side cleaners generally do better with dirt and sand. A pressure side cleaner will usually just blow the dirt right through the mesh bag. So you might want to plumb that extra port as a cleaner line for the suction side and use a suction side cleaner.

Suction side is the way to go then!

Like I've mentioned before, I will be running a dedicated vacuum line. It would be great to use the same line as a return while not vacuuming the pool. Is it a good idea to install a valve for that line that could be moved to suction side when vacuuming the pool and then moved to the return side when done cleaning?

I was able to finish trenching and I will be posting some photos soon! PVC pipe will be ordered this week to be ready for the weekend.

 

[slythic]

At the end of the day though, a MD is not going to have any large influence on the quality of the pool or the cleanliness of it.

I've convinced myself with the help of you guys that even though the main drain works, it's wise to plug the main drain to avoid future headaches. The advice is really appreciated!

 

[slythic]

As promised, here are some photos of the trench...

 

[slythic]

Here are some more photos from work done last night. Was able to remove the old returns and increased the openings to allow for the larger pipe size. Still not done with the south wall return, hole needs to be bigger and need to straighten but definitely a good start! Today or later this week I'll tackle the old skimmer pipe and making the opening for the new skimmer.

North wall (Return 1)

The photo above is from inside the return hole looking down, you can see how it's obviously a concrete block pool. Makes it tempting to add another return down there...


South wall (Return 2)

 

[Divin Dave]

Very cool project. I wish I lived in FL and could be your helper!

 

[slythic]

Dave, I also wish you lived here! Could use a hand with some of this or at least someone to talk to. Hearing my own voice echo in the empty pool is fun for only so long, so no more talking to myself! Haha.

There has been little progress the last week due to rain but really because I hadn't scheduled the pipe to be delivered. 220' of 2" PVC Schedule 40 is now scheduled for delivery tomorrow morning. I wanted to avoid buying from home depot as they only sell PVC in 10' lengths, I decided to buy from a local pipe distributor in 20' sections.

A warning for others buying direct from pipe distributors or plumbing suppliers, even though you mention it is for a pool and it must be schedule 40 they may try to sell you DWV pipe. Double check the paperwork. Technically it would work but it's best to spend a little extra money on the thicker wall PVC even if just for peace of mind.

 

[slythic]

The attached plumbing diagram is what I have in mind at the equipment pad. As you can tell it's pretty simple but I wanted to get some feedback in case I was missing something or simplified too much.

I've seen a lot of pools and plumbing diagrams and they have ball valves, check valves or Jandy 2-port/3-port valves in a lot of places. I'm not sure I need that many. I figured the Jandy 3-port valves in the diagram could do the same job. Should I have more control using Jandy 2-ports in some lines? Just a reminder that all the plumbing will be 2". I think the Jandy 2"-2 1/2" 3-port valve would provide better flow than the 1 1/2"-2" version so I think I'll go with the former.

After doing some research I may use the Pentair IC40 SWCG due to price point and similar performance from other systems. I read the manual for the IC40 and they recommend a check valve before the SWCG if a heater is present. I won't have a heater but would it be a good idea to install a check valve anyway (between filter and SWGC)? I would prefer not to as I'd like to avoid any points of failure.

 

[jblizzle]

That looks like a good plan to me. I do not see the point in used two 2-ways where a 3-way will work (plus automation systems are setup to usually work with 3-way valves to switch settings). You do get more precise control using multiple 2-ways, but likely over-kill.

There is also no point in added a check valve ... even with a heater IMO.

I agree .. get the 2/2.5 valves with 2" pipe.

You could consider another 3-way on the returns if the run lengths are different that would allow you to balance the flow.

 

[slythic]

I also haven't even thought about auto fillers and overflow drains. Does anyone have experience regarding those? Want to take advantage now that the trench is still open for any additional plumbing.

 

[slythic]

That looks like a good plan to me. I do not see the point in used two 2-ways where a 3-way will work (plus automation systems are setup to usually work with 3-way valves to switch settings). You do get more precise control using multiple 2-ways, but likely over-kill.

There is also no point in added a check valve ... even with a heater IMO.

I agree .. get the 2/2.5 valves with 2" pipe.

You could consider another 3-way on the returns if the run lengths are different that would allow you to balance the flow.

That's a good point regarding the 3-port for the returns... return 2 is actually much farther away so I'll add another one there. See below for the revised diagram.

 

[jblizzle]

Even though they stiffen up, you could consider just using a couple ball valves on the return lines. Likely you will only need to set the balance once and then never need to turn the valves again ... might save a bit of money.

I like my auto-fill, but I have a lot of evaporation. Others do not like them as they can mask a leak in the pool. In Florida, I am not sure how much use you would get from an auto-fill, but an overflow may be more useful. Of course you could always install the auto-fill bucket and valve and most have ports off of them to use for overflows. Then just leave the water supply to the auto-fill turned off if you do not need it.

 

[sargent]

You may want to add a valve (or valves) between the pump and filter so you can pump to waste or bypass the filter.

 

[jblizzle]

You may want to add a valve (or valves) between the pump and filter so you can pump to waste or bypass the filter.

That is a good suggestion if you are not going to have a multi-valve on your sand or DE filter ... and certain a good idea if you are getting a cartridge filter.

 

[slythic]

You may want to add a valve (or valves) between the pump and filter so you can pump to waste or bypass the filter.

Good catch sargent! Like Jason mentioned, I do plan on adding either a CC 200 or CCP 320 cartridge filter (still debating with myself which to go with). I've revised the diagram again. Let me know if anything can be improved.

Jason, I spoke to a good friend that owns a pool about 7 minutes from me and he said he rarely has to fill the pool up. What he did mention is that he drains the pool way more than he ever needs to fill it up. Which I find strange because there are times where it doesn't rain here for weeks but we do have a lot of humidity. Another good reason to add the waste/bypass valve.

 

[slythic]

Even though they stiffen up, you could consider just using a couple ball valves on the return lines. Likely you will only need to set the balance once and then never need to turn the valves again ... might save a bit of money.

If the ball valves are a better choice I'd go with them but the Jandy 3-port valves seem like a much better choice. Am I correct? I definitely do not want to sacrifice convenience and quality over money. I'm saving a lot by doing this part myself so the money I'm saving can go towards better quality materials and the pool finish!

 

[jblizzle]

The Jandy-type valves are certainly higher-end and should last nearly forever. But in this case, in a use where it will be moved VERY rarely if ever may not be worth the added cost, but certainly no problem using the better valve.

 

[Divin Dave]

I have ball valves on my returns. I wish I now had put the jandys on there. At times, I like to play around a little bit with the water currents just because I like to see the water in the pool moving. The ball valves even though functional, just arent all that great. It takes 2 hands to move them and it dont take long for them to get stuck. I plan on replacing them with Jandys but havent got around to it yet. I have a 3 way Jandy on my waste line and believe me, that sucker is NICE. well worth the money IMO. And on top of that, I think the Jandy valves just look way cool!

If the ball valves are a better choice I'd go with them but the Jandy 3-port valves seem like a much better choice. Am I correct? I definitely do not want to sacrifice convenience and quality over money. I'm saving a lot by doing this part myself so the money I'm saving can go towards better quality materials and the pool finish!