Normal reply that makes sure they don’t have to do anything because the chemistry didn’t follow their requirements. Even if he did follow the requirements there’d be some other reason they’d balk and doing anything.
Is this a calcium issue?
- Thread starter Alset2
- Start date
My thoughts exactly. I do, however, wonder why they would have guidelines to have such low CL with CYA ? Is part of their "guidelines" an algae bloom? lol
It’s common recommendations from the 1980’s that never went away. One of those “it’s always been done that way” kinda things. Builders don’t generally care about algae.
So he got another email from the DB rep. It is below...I am hoping someone could give us direction on a response. I went on draft "rant" email but I asked my friend to simply ask them to explain in equal detail (as this response was) on how his numbers could cause the same condition in less than 30 days.
Heck, if his water chemistry caused this I feel I am to blame and I will pay for a new acid wash.
Email from rep below:
Mr. Mike,
Many factors contribute to pH rise and as your research you will find the truth.
The chemical issues that are affecting your pool surface are as follows.
Chlorine levels above the recommend level.
What type of chlorine are you using?
I assumed salt chloring generator with TDS of 3000 +.
It is fine to use a chlorine generator however they raise the pH as it produces chlorine.
To compound the problem, since there is no cyanuric acid, (common name stabilizer or conditioner) it must produce more than required to maintain the levels reported, further contribution to pH rise.
Total Alkalinity “is a measurement of the ability of water to resist changes in pH… that is the ability to buffer”. The comes from the Taylor pool and Spa Water Chemistry book you receive with your test kit. Page 13.
Calcium Hardness. This is the only reading you are in range.
Cyanuric Acid. Not reported or 0.
Please let me know if I can assist further.
Heck, if his water chemistry caused this I feel I am to blame and I will pay for a new acid wash.
Email from rep below:
Mr. Mike,
Many factors contribute to pH rise and as your research you will find the truth.
The chemical issues that are affecting your pool surface are as follows.
Chlorine levels above the recommend level.
What type of chlorine are you using?
I assumed salt chloring generator with TDS of 3000 +.
It is fine to use a chlorine generator however they raise the pH as it produces chlorine.
To compound the problem, since there is no cyanuric acid, (common name stabilizer or conditioner) it must produce more than required to maintain the levels reported, further contribution to pH rise.
Total Alkalinity “is a measurement of the ability of water to resist changes in pH… that is the ability to buffer”. The comes from the Taylor pool and Spa Water Chemistry book you receive with your test kit. Page 13.
Calcium Hardness. This is the only reading you are in range.
Cyanuric Acid. Not reported or 0.
Please let me know if I can assist further.
Last edited:
If there’s no CYA in the water, the chlorine that’s in there will be very harsh. You should always follow the chart and there should always be at least 30ppm.
Sounds like the only complaint is the chlorine level being over their requirement? The SWCG having to work harder without CYA can be true, but that doesn’t affect the chlorine level in the water. It just means energy is being wasted making chlorine that gets used up right after it’s made.
Not much point arguing with them, they’ll win.
So I got sidetracked with the reps email excuses, but back to why I brought this here...
Is there anything we can do about this or is it really just the nature of the beast so to say?
Do you think the chemistry since the acid wash could have caused this again?
Sorry, I'd just like to know if we should let it go and enjoy the pool?
But if there is something we can do, we will try it.
thank you all again.
Is there anything we can do about this or is it really just the nature of the beast so to say?
Do you think the chemistry since the acid wash could have caused this again?
Sorry, I'd just like to know if we should let it go and enjoy the pool?
But if there is something we can do, we will try it.
thank you all again.
- Feb 6, 2015
- 6,306
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
I guess it depends on whether the pool owner is going to followTFP methods (based on current science) or the PB 1980's methods based on "we've always done it that way".
Stabilizer (CYA) needs to be added either way. A CYA of "0" makes the chlorine very harsh and the chlorine will also burn off quite fast.
In either case, you aren't going to win with the PB based on the data that has been provided to them.
Doing another acid wash will shorten the life of the plaster surface.
Get the pool owner to register on the forum and get them to obtain a proper test kit.
Test Kits Compared
If this is a SWG pool, the TF-Pro Salt is the best bang for the buck.
Let us know what the pool owner decides.
Stabilizer (CYA) needs to be added either way. A CYA of "0" makes the chlorine very harsh and the chlorine will also burn off quite fast.
In either case, you aren't going to win with the PB based on the data that has been provided to them.
Doing another acid wash will shorten the life of the plaster surface.
Get the pool owner to register on the forum and get them to obtain a proper test kit.
Test Kits Compared
If this is a SWG pool, the TF-Pro Salt is the best bang for the buck.
Let us know what the pool owner decides.
Thanks
I'm working on him to register but he is all in on TFP way.
We added 3lbs of CYA beginning of week. Based on this thread we will go ahead and get it up to 60 ASAP.
Any thoughts on how to correct this?
He has been listening to me and I have been a bit lax with getting everything exactly into TFP range. I really didn't think being a little out of wack for a month (while I was out of the country) would result in a complete relapse of the condition. I'm starting to feel a bit guilty.
The main concerns I conveyed to him while I was gone was to keep the chlorine from getting to zero and keep the PH in in range. I actually told him a little high (FC) is better than too low.
I fear I think I am smarter than I really am if you know what I mean., and it has cost my friend.
I have followed TFP for 5 seasons now and not one issue and I have never even had to clean the plates on my SWG.
We will work to get his pool in complete compliance with TFP way.
My question still is "is there something we can do about this"? Of course, AFTER we get all ranges in spec.
I know I might be asking for opinions since you all really can't see or work on the pool, but this is exactly what I have come to value immensely from you guys over the years.
- Feb 6, 2015
- 6,306
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- CircuPool RJ-45 Plus
First things first.
If he's all in onTFP - he needs to register on the forum, read thru the articles and get a recommended test kit. Then start asking for help for his pool.
Right now he is totally dependent on you, your test kit and your available time.
That isn't going to work out well in the end - for either of you.
You're a good neighbor to try helping out. And you have imparted your TFP knowledge on him. Time for him to take the reins.
As for what he sees on the surface, chances are it's do to the dark plaster.
He either lives with it or tries another acid wash (which will reduce the life of the plaster surface). The PB isn't going to be of any real long term help.
The pictures you’ve provided so far look like normal mottling that’s found on dark colored plaster. There’s nothing that can be done for that. If you have more pictures that have different issues it’s worth looking at those since something happened to make an acid wash something the builder would recommend.
Good points... thank you for your bluntness and I completely get what you're saying.
FWIW, he has been doing all of his own testing and has all the test. I spent the first week (end of January) teaching him how to drop test, but since then it's been all him. Although I might buy him a TF-100 kit for an easter present just for simplicity lol . Seriously though, he already has speed stir and everything.
I just wanted to give him some credit for when he DOES register and chime in to thank you all here.
SO now I will back out, although I really learned a lot from this experience ( I like learning).
Thank you,
FWIW, he has been doing all of his own testing and has all the test. I spent the first week (end of January) teaching him how to drop test, but since then it's been all him. Although I might buy him a TF-100 kit for an easter present just for simplicity lol . Seriously though, he already has speed stir and everything.
I just wanted to give him some credit for when he DOES register and chime in to thank you all here.
SO now I will back out, although I really learned a lot from this experience ( I like learning).
Thank you,
pikeman
Well-known member
LOL! The "magic" is revealing these so-called "professionals" as idiots selling snake oil! And also reducing costs by using some commonly available chemicals.