Introduction - New Build - Start up problems

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

Did a BYOP here in Austin Texas. 5600gal pool with a 1000 gal spa.
I grew up with a backyard pool I helped maintain, was a lifeguard at a public pool and helped with it, and I have a MS in environmental engineering so know a tiny bit of chemistry. It's a small, relax out of the heat pool in our small yard. 90% of the time it will just be the 4 of us using it.

Whole thing is Pentair including:

Intelliflow3 VSF
Intellicenter i8PS - w/2x Intellivalves
Pentair MasterTemp
Pentair Clean & Clear Plus CCP420
Autofill
Pentair Rainbow 320 In-Line Chlorine/Bromine feeder
Blower on the spa side.

Quartzscapes - mostly white in color (marine blue or something)

After an hour long wait time and 20 minutes of actual trouble shooting, I think I have the pump working and the valves correct. For right now I have the valves set to 6 for pool and 24 for spa. I've got the pump running at 45GPM as I am supposed to run it non stop for 72 hours.

Before the problems - we did overfill the pool by about 2 inches. It's 105 outside, so I was thinking evap would sort that out the next couple days, but if I need to remove the extra, let me know.

Problems(?)

1. When I first started it had a horrible air leak and could not get close to primed. 2-4 inches of air in the pump chamber. I figured out that the pipe from the 3 way was not glued in. Glued it and now I can get a prime (full chamber) but no vacuum showing at the pump/chamber. I also get the sound of air moving through the system, after the filter. I have burped the filter. From the filter through the heater and back down to the ground I can hear water moving with the sound of air/bubbles and I am getting bubbles from some of the returns. After 30 minutes I had two bubbles in the pump chamber, about the size of a half dollar. Both stuck to the bottom of the clear top.

Give the air sound in the pipes, the bubble or two in the chamber, bubbles from the return - is it possible I still have an air leak? Something I need to hunt down? or is the first 30 minutes too soon to be worrying about having all the air out of the system (3" pipe and equipment 70ft away from pool).

2. Just back from Leslie's - As expected high pH (8.7), but Austin city water is 8.5+, so just battling that and normal high pH from the first days post plaster. I measured my Ta at 70, Leslies says 62. I added 32oz of acid, so will get again in an hour or two to see pH and TA are back in check.

There is no Cl (FC = 0.8ppm; TC 1.42). Start up says not to add it to the autofeeder. Can I just throw a tablet in the skimmer? Do I need to buy liquid Cl for now, save tablets for later?

They told me I should also address my low CyA (5ppm) using their Conditioner. (add 2lbs). The rest they said could wait.

FC - 0.18pppm
TC - 1.43
pH 8.7 - added 32oz 32%ma
TA - 62
CH - 87ppm
CA - 5ppm
Iron - 0
Cu - 0.2ppm
Phosphates 424 ppb
TDS - 300ppm


Closing -

For now, as we get the above sorted out - where do I find best practices for setting up the pool in general (how long and how often to be running pumps, how best to setup auto feeder, etc) - Is that all in the pool school?

 

[MITBeta]

Pool Care Basics

I wouldn't worry about hearing air in the system an hour after turning on the equipment.

Never add chemicals to the skimmer. You should get your FC up to 3ppm right away using liquid chlorine. You'll also want to start 30ppm of stabilizer by hanging a sock with the correct amount in front of a return jet.

Save the tabs for when you vacation.

It's going to be strongly recommended to purchase a high quality test kit (see: Test Kits Compared). You won't get much advice around here based on pool store testing.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

My signature isn't showing, but I've got a K2006 kit. I'll get the stabilizer going in the morning. I did add most of a bottle of stabilizer on day 1 when I filled it. But I guess each day and each testing is it's own day.

Quartz Pool (5600gal) and Spa (1000gal) - Pentair Intelli system with 3hp Intelliflo3 VSF; Intellicenter, 420sf Cart filter, Prowler 920; Taylor K2006 kit.

 

[HermanTX]

My signature isn't showing, but I've got a K2006 kit. I'll get the stabilizer going in the morning. I did add most of a bottle of stabilizer on day 1 when I filled it. But I guess each day and each testing is it's own day.

Quartz Pool (5600gal) and Spa (1000gal) - Pentair Intelli system with 3hp Intelliflo3 VSF; Intellicenter, 420sf Cart filter, Prowler 920; Taylor K2006 kit.

You should test your CYA before adding any more stabilizer. You mentioned earlier you added 2 lbs then above you added most of a bottle. CYA increases may take 24-48 hrs to register on the test.
I would highly recommend you convert to liquid chlorine (LC) only. if you go with pucks then you will be fighting high CYA levels by August/September and then you be fighting algae because it is still hot and you won't have sufficient chlorine in the pool to sanitize it.

You have a great pump - you should plan to run it at low speed (lets say 1500 rpm) majority of time and only ramp up to do extra skimming or when you are in Spa Mode. Or when you use the heater. You do not have to run your pump 24/7 but you may want to play around with how much you need to circulate for skimming. Also, monitor how much FC you lose daily and how much LC you need to add daily.

If you make the switch to LC then use the FC/CYA Levels to target the proper CYA level and then set FC within the target range. Don't play with minimum, because it is hot and all of a sudden you find you have zero FC and algae will start.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

You should test your CYA before adding any more stabilizer. You mentioned earlier you added 2 lbs then above you added most of a bottle. CYA increases may take 24-48 hrs to register on the test.

Leslie's suggested it, but I had not added it yet. I wanted to get the pH back down. I'll test CYA this morning and put the 2lbs in a couple socks hung in front of returns as suggested.

I would highly recommend you convert to liquid chlorine (LC) only. if you go with pucks then you will be fighting high CYA levels by August/September and then you be fighting algae because it is still hot and you won't have sufficient chlorine in the pool to sanitize it.

I just bought 37lbs tablets! My designer included an autofeeder, but it looks like you can run those with liquid, so that works. I can split the pucks and take them to my ranch for the occasional use in our cistern and in our septic final stage. I bought a couple gallons of liquid (10%) yesterday at Walmart ($5/gal). With 6600 gal of water, North side of house and unshaded (6-8hrs of direct sun a day), Any guess as to how much liquid I should buy at a time so I am not on a gov. watch list? Maybe go back and get 4 more gal just to have around?

 

[HermanTX]

I kept no more than 10 gals at the house at a time. This ensured I was always purchasing fresh chlorine.
With 6500 gals, you can probably keep 5 gals and plan to replace that as needed.

Keep the tabs - they can be handy for special occasions such as when you go on vacation. Pucks have a very very long shelf life so long as you keep them dry. For clarity - do NOT put liquid chlorine in a puck dispenser. Not sure that is what you meant in your comment but just wanted to clarify that. Empty your puck chlorinator and pour LC directly into the pool.

Leslie's will lead you down a path of continuous Band-Aid fixes which helps them sell $$$$ of products. You will need to make a decision to stay on that path or switch over to TFP. Follow the What Are My Ideal Pool Levels?

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

Alright, things are looking better today.

FC - 2.0
pH - 7.4
TA - 60
CH - 110
CYA - 40

The FC was 9 yesterday morning with a CYA of 5. Added 25oz of stabilizer in the morning and by the end of the day fc was down to 0.5 but CYA was up to 45. I added 39oz of 10% liquid at 6pm. Now at 730 am, FC is at 2.0 and CYA is still holding in the 40s.

Seems I need to start to tackle CH. Pool Math says to add 15lbs of Calcium Chloride to get to CH of 350, which I will start to add in doses over the next day.

Anyone else see anything concerning? This pool is now 5 days with plaster, so I am sure things will keep fluctuating.

 

[Texas Splash]

Your FC & CYA are an issue. The FC has been much too low (potential algae). Remember to always compare your FC to the CYA as noted on the FC/CYA Levels. A few pointers about the FC:
- It should never be allowed to fall below the minimum as noted on that FC/CYA Levels. A little stronger is always better than low.
- Pick a consistent time of day to test the FC everyday during our hot months. If you lose more than 4 ppm of FC in 24 hrs with no good reason (i.e. pool party) something's wrong.
- If you do lose more than 4 ppm of FC or the water looks hazy, do an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

A CYA of 40 is low IMO. Our TX sun will take the FC from the water. When I was a non-salt pool, my CYA was easily 50 ppm from May - Sep, often times I went as high 60-70. NOTE: Do NOT increase the CYA without first doing an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test to ensure there is no algae.

For the CH, I would only add enough to get your CH to about 250. Start on the minimum side for now. You can always add more later. Local water, if hard, will increase the CH anyway.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

I get it that the numbers have been low, but remember this is a brand new pool. You are only supposed to starting adding Cl on the 2nd day after filling, so Monday was the first day I was supposed to start adding Chlorine. CYA is coming up and I'll keep working to bring it up, aiming for 50.

I think I lost so much FC because there was near zero cya. Expecting better today now that cya is giving the Cl a bit of holding power.

 

[Texas Splash]

I think I lost so much FC because there was near zero cya.

Very possible. Once past the initial 3-day start-up (wait) period, the water's FC and CYA should be balanced accordingly. With this heat, the water needs that constant FC protection. If allowed to fall for too long resulting in algae, you cannot do a SLAM until after 30 days with new plaster. All you can do at this point is try to maintain healthy/steady FC level. If you continue to find the FC falling quickly after adding CYA, or see the water become dull and hazy, I would encourage an Overnight Chlorine Loss Test.

 

[HermanTX]

I get it that the numbers have been low, but remember this is a brand new pool. You are only supposed to starting adding Cl on the 2nd day after filling, so Monday was the first day I was supposed to start adding Chlorine. CYA is coming up and I'll keep working to bring it up, aiming for 50.

I think I lost so much FC because there was near zero cya. Expecting better today now that cya is giving the Cl a bit of holding power.

+1 to everything recommended by @Texas Splash

CYA may take 2-3 days to register properly throughout the pool so don't add too much too quickly. Let it settle for a couple of days and test again. Always round up your CYA number. I find it easier to do the CYA using the method below

1. Make your 50/50 solution using your pool water and the R-0013 reagent per the instructions.
2. Mix it and let it sit for 30 seconds per the instructions
3. Rather than looking down the tube at the black dot and pouring your mixed solution. I suggest you squirt enough in your tube to a specific mark - such a 70. Then look in the tube for the black dot. If you see it, then squirt in more mixture to the 60 mark, then look in the tube for the black dot. Continue this for each decade graduation (i.e. 50, 40, etc.)
4. On the one you cannot see the dot then the previous mark is your CYA level. So if you saw the black dot at 50 but not at the 40 mark then your CYA is 50.
5. This way you are not staring at the black dot constantly and seeing it regardless. Your eyes can play tricks with that dot.
6. Also, by filling to each decade mark, you ensure that you do not try to interpret between the decade marks as the tube is logarithmic meaning that the graduations are not proportional so guessing a number between 2 decade marks is not accurate.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

Seems to be starting to balance - not as drastic each day.

FC:3
CC:0.5
pH:7.9 (goes up ever night, likely the plaster curing) - goes to 7.6 with two drops
TA:60
CH 200
CYA 40

FC did not change over night, so no algae issue. Just seems to burn through it every day. I know there is a lot of love for liquid, but seems like pucks in the autofeeder will be a big help once I can start to use it.

I added a touch more Calcium Chloride (half what Pool Math said would get me to 250). Will test again in an hour or two. I also refilled a sock to keep slowly working on CYA.

We keep talking about saving the pucks for when I go on vacation, well that is next week. While I have the autofeeder, I was wondering about instead just throwing a puck into the skimmer basket? I've got a neighbor with a pool who said he would keep an eye on it for me this week. He uses a service, but does manage his own Cl between weekly visits. So I trust he can handle brushing and checking Cl. I was thinking a puck in the skimmer is probaly easy enough for him. I've not had a chance to work out my settings on my autofill, so think I would avoid it till I am back in town. There will be no swimmers while we are gone. Thoughts?

 

[Texas Splash]

You have room for more CYA, so using pucks will not only increase the CYA but also help to keep the pH down a bit since they are also acidic. But use your feeder or a floater, never put pucks in the skimmer. Before your road trip, you might add some liquid chlorine as well. You can't take it up to SLAM level since the plaster is new, but increasing the FC to 7-9 ppm should be fine and help buy you some time.

Discontinue the pucks when you see that your CYA has reached 60. TFP recommends a high of 50, but IMO, the TX heat is just too intense, so a CYA of about 60 seems to protect the FC better. Before I went to salt, I even took my CYA up to 70 from Jul - Sep.

 

[HermanTX]

Agree with everything and like @Texas Splash we both have managed pools using LC and pucks.
I would get a floater and put 5 pucks in it. Then add a gallon of LC before you depart. Then midweek, ask your neighbor to add another gallon of LC. The pucks will give you a constant baseline of chlorine and help keep the pH in check. The extra LC will give you a cushion because it is so hot and you do not want to come back to any algae.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

So it seems like I am adding LC every day. It also is starting to sound like that is normal? Again, we get 8 hrs of direct sun a day with no direct overhead shading.

6500 gal pool, is it reasonable that even with a CYA of 55-60 we would be adding 24-30+oz of LC a day going forward? Just trying to get a grasp on chemical usage.

We did swim in it yesterday with an FC of 4.0 and I thought the Cl was a bit much. Swam in it today with an FC of 2 and it was entirely different experience. CYA of 45 each time. pH yesterday was 8 and was 7.4 today. After we swam in it tonight I did add 34oz of LC as I will not be able to test and top off tomorrow morning due to a kids swim meet till 2pm.

Last question before we pack up for a week in Florida. I know I have a long time to work out the idea schedule, but for this week away with days in the 100's and a neighbor that will come add LC a couple times, but likely only brush once, what frequency of pump operation should I schedule? Its a VSF pump. Right now I have the pool/spa balanced at 6 (out of 24), so 25% spa/75% pool. Run it low and slow for 2-3 turns a day? Is night ok or is day better?

 

[Texas Splash]

So it seems like I am adding LC every day. It also is starting to sound like that is normal?

Correct. Your pool is like a pet and it must be fed each day (chlorine). My pool is out in the country outside of San Antonio. Zero shade with TX sun blasting it from dawn to dusk. When I was adding liquid (before my SWG), my CYA was 60-70 and I added 1/2 gallon of 10% chlorine (about 2.5 ppm) each evening after work like clockwork. Your pool is smaller so your amounts will vary, but you get the point. It needs chlorine everyday. The only exception to this will be from Nov - Feb when the water is cold. It will still need chlorine, but you may only have to add some every 2-3 days at best in cold water.

When the FC is balanced to the CYA two things happen. First, the free chlorine bonds to the stabilizer in the water to protect swimmers and the pool. The ratio of FC-to-CYA is safe and comfortable. More comfortable than someone with an FC of 1-3 ppm and no stabilizer. Also as important, when the FC is properly balanced to the CYA, is that you prevent algae. You allowed the FC to fall to 2 ppm on at least one occasion. That is a recipe for algae in this heat. You have to keep that FC in the ideal range noted on the FC/CYA Levels.

It is important to keep the pH in the 7.2 - 7.8 range. When you let it get high, the potential for scale increases dramatically in the summer with warmer water. When you return from your trip, post a full set of water test results so we can see everything. Consider using our PoolMath APP and linking it to TFP in the settings so we can see all your tests.

 

[Texas Splash]

As for your pump run time, it's up to you. My pump runs on low speed 24/7. If you elect to leave yours programmed for specific time intervals, then consider when is the windiest time of day so that your pump can pull water into the skimmer to keep it clean. Make sure your friend or neighbors checks the skimmer for leaves. They should also add chlorine while the water is circulating. Other than that, it's really up to you.

 

[HermanTX]

6500 gal pool, is it reasonable that even with a CYA of 55-60 we would be adding 24-30+oz of LC a day going forward? Just trying to get a grasp on chemical usage.

My pool is about twice your size and I was putting 32 oz in morning and 32 oz in evening - so yes what you are doing is normal.

When I was using LC I was running my pump 20 hrs or so, I always wanted to keep the water circulating because of adding LC in morning and evening. Plus I had constant low rpm skimming.

Have fun on the FL vacation.

 

[ATXMattlikesbikes]

I'm using the paid Poolmath app. I see I can share a link or is there a way to just have the data available?

PoolMath Logs

When we designed the pool, our designer steered us away from SWG. I'm not against it, it just sounded from him and some of the reddit forums like snake oil. But looking around here, seems like lots of the folks are SWG.

Growing up in Houston with a pool it was just tablets in the skimmer and shock every few weeks and no issues. Algae maybe once a year. I guess I wasn't expecting weekly trips to Walmart to buy 5gal of LC (or storing 5 gal). Just gotta change my perspective. Also I assume the curing quartz (8days old) is still impacting our balance and will settle in time.

 

[Texas Splash]

If you look in your Poolmath profile setting area, you should see an option to share test logs with TFP.