Intermittent breaker tripping on hot tub

[gbest]

2004 Arctic Spa in good overall condition, breaker trips from time to time.
I run all the pumps, blower, heater and can't make it trip, but will find it tripped days later.
Thoughts?

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

If the tub is in use, there is not much you can do to troubleshoot until the problem gets much worse.

If you have an ozone or UV system you can disconnect them and see of the problem goes away.

I would suspect the heater is the problem.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[PoolGate]

The actual breaker is tripping or a GFI?

 

[ajw22]

I would start by replacing the breaker.

@RDspaguy

 

[gbest]

The actual breaker is tripping or a GFI?

GFI Breaker

 

[PoolGate]

GFI Breaker

I think I read somewhere that they do not recommend using GFI with pumps. But yes, +1 to the above then. GFIs do wear out so replace it with a new one.

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

All standalone spas have everything run off of GFCI breakers.

While GFCI breakers do go bad over time, the main cause of "intermittent" trips in my experience are Ozone systems per RDspaguy and heaters per me..

The good thing about replacing the GFCI first is that you don't have to drain the tub, and if the problem is intermittent, it is a good way to confirm if the GFCI is actually bad or not.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[gbest]

G,

All standalone spas have everything run off of GFCI breakers.

While GFCI breakers do go bad over time, the main cause of "intermittent" trips in my experience are Ozone systems per RDspaguy and heaters per me..

The good thing about replacing the GFCI first is that you don't have to drain the tub, and if the problem is intermittent, it is a good way to confirm if the GFCI is actually bad or not.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thanks Jim,

Can you suggest a way to check the heater?

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

No, because it is intermittent. If it is the heater, it won't be long until it is no longer intermittent.

If you are not using the hot tub, then you can disconnect the heater wires, usually 220 volts, and run it for a few days and see if it continues to pop or not. Turning off the heater this time of year might not be a very good idea.

Jim R.

 

[gbest]

G,

No, because it is intermittent. If it is the heater, it won't be long until it is no longer intermittent.

If you are not using the hot tub, then you can disconnect the heater wires, usually 220 volts, and run it for a few days and see if it continues to pop or not. Turning off the heater this time of year might not be a very good idea.

Jim R.

Okay, now that I'm paying closer attention to this, it trips faster than I thought.
I disconnected the Ozone, still tripped, same with the heater, on to the blower, Bingo!

The blower runs as soon as the power is turned on, runs for a few minutes then the breaker trips.
All other functions operate with the blower disconnected, no tripped breaker.

Testing the motor, I have continuity between white and black and none from either to ground.
Where the blower automatically comes on when power is applied (not normal), could this be problem with the control board?

 

[jimmythegreek]

What is the setup on this tub? Single pump, dual pump, etc? When you say blower do you mean a water pump or a dedicated air blower?

 

[Jimrahbe]

G,

I suspect the blower is controlled by a relay. Most likely the relay contracts are stuck closed.. If you look at the solder side the relay board, you might see it is burned.

I "assume" the blower should not come on unless you tell it to come on.

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[gbest]

What is the setup on this tub? Single pump, dual pump, etc? When you say blower do you mean a water pump or a dedicated air blower?

3 pumps, air blower is what is tripping the breaker.

 

[gbest]

G,

I suspect the blower is controlled by a relay. Most likely the relay contracts are stuck closed.. If you look at the solder side the relay board, you might see it is burned.

I "assume" the blower should not come on unless you tell it to come on.

Thanks,

Jim R.

Would this relay be on the spa pack board?

 

[RDspaguy]

Post pics of circuit board and wiring diagram so I can see what you've got in there. It is normal for certain systems to engage the blower at start-up, and maybe pumps as well depending on settings. Even if not "on" it is typical for one leg to be on all the time which will trip a gfci if there is a ground fault.
Blowers can flood from overfill and trip the breaker. It can take days in warm weather to dry out. The blower is a vacuum motor that will "suck up" any water that got behind it and short the motor.
I'd leave the blower disconnected for a few days or weeks and try it again. It might work just fine. Watch your water level when using it or this can happen again. There is likely a check valve which has failed. If it's easy to get to, replace it, or add one at the blower itself if there's room.

 

[gbest]

Post pics of circuit board and wiring diagram so I can see what you've got in there. It is normal for certain systems to engage the blower at start-up, and maybe pumps as well depending on settings. Even if not "on" it is typical for one leg to be on all the time which will trip a gfci if there is a ground fault.
Blowers can flood from overfill and trip the breaker. It can take days in warm weather to dry out. The blower is a vacuum motor that will "suck up" any water that got behind it and short the motor.
I'd leave the blower disconnected for a few days or weeks and try it again. It might work just fine. Watch your water level when using it or this can happen again. There is likely a check valve which has failed. If it's easy to get to, replace it, or add one at the blower itself if there's room.

I opened up the blower,completely dry inside.
The soot inside the cover was from a technician who did something wrong and the board smoked, he replaced it along with the heater, this was years ago.

 

[RDspaguy]

If it runs with the blower unplugged, the blower is the issue. If it's dry then you probably need a new one. I've seen mice get zapped and cause shorts, or their nests. You might pull that housing apart and check in there.

 

[gbest]

If it runs with the blower unplugged, the blower is the issue. If it's dry then you probably need a new one. I've seen mice get zapped and cause shorts, or their nests. You might pull that housing apart and check in there.

So the tub ran all night and fully heated up.
I played around with the blower today, I had taken the blower apart and inspected it closely, still plenty of life on the motor brushes and no sign of shorts and continuity was good, so I put it back together and plugged it back into the spa pack and turned the power back on and the blower did not start up on its own like it had been doing.

I was able to turn the blower on and off from the control pad as normal.
I turned on all the pumps and blower for a full cycle and with the blower running and all appears to be normal.
Weird.

 

[wireform]

Still I say bad relay somewhere. For now let live but usually this will resurface again.