How to set up new variable speed pump to work with salt water chlorine generator

[JRM]

My old single speed pump finally died, so I had to buy a new VS pump. My question is how to wire it and program it to work with the SWG and the Barracuda G3 suction cleaner. The old pump was controlled by a simple Intermatic timer and the SWG is wired to the same times so that if the pump runs, the SWG runs.

Now how do I wire and control the SWG to work at the right time? Does it just always have power and only generate when it senses flow? What kind of pump program/schedule works best for a suction cleaner like the Barracuda? Also, none of the stuff I've read online has talked at all about different pump programs/schedules for different seasons, but here in Phoenix I've always run my pump much less in the cool months and more in the swimming months.

About my system:

• Pool: about 30,000 gallons, no water features.
• Cleaner: Baracuda G3 connected though a Pentair Vac-Mate in the skimmer.
• New Pump: CaliMar Variable Speed Pool Pump | 3HP | CMARVSP3.0
• Filter: Pentair FNS Plus FNSP60 DE Filter
• SWG: Circupool RJ-60 Plus.

Also, will the Vac-Mate (which has a manual valve to balance the skimmer and cleaner) still work for me with the variable speed pump, or do I need some other solution? It needs to be in the skimmer because I only have one skimmer and no other vacuum port.

Thanks,
John

 

[JRM]

No thoughts or advice? Is this the wrong forum?

I got the new pump installed. Still using the old wiring and the Vac-Mate. It's running great and is unbelievably quiet compared to the old single speed Hayward NorthStar it replaced. The build and finish quality seems top-notch for something that's 1/2-1/4 the price of the major brands.

Thanks,
John

 

[mknauss]

Tell us what you have for timers. You will need a timer for the SWCG so it is powered off when the pump is off. Or run the pump 24/7. The cleaner needs a timer to turn it on when the pump is running.

 

[JRM]

Okay, a search of the Circupool RJ-60+owners manual answered my wiring question:

For use with Variable Speed Pumps: When used with variable-speed or other electronically controlled pumps, you may wish to wire the Control Module directly to your power source. This will allow the pump to determine when the Cell is energized or dormant by activation of the Flow Switch.​

I guess the SWG will just always be powered on and will run when there's flow.

 

[mknauss]

I guess the SWG will just always be powered on and will run when there's flow.

TFPC does not recommend that, but you are welcome to do it if you wish. SWCG's do explode if they are powered on without flow. Does not happen often, but does happen.

 

[JRM]

Tell us what you have for timers. You will need a timer for the SWCG so it is powered off when the pump is off. Or run the pump 24/7. The cleaner needs a timer to turn it on when the pump is running.

Thanks for the reply. My timer is a simple Intermatic clock timer with a time disc and a mechanical switch. But that's incompatible with the new VS pump. Since the pump has it's own built-in programable controller it needs power 24/7, so I've bypassed the timer for the new pump. Per my other reply moments ago, I discovered that Circupool recommends just powering the SWG all the time.

 

[JRM]

TFPC does not recommend that, but you are welcome to do it if you wish. SWCG's do explode if they are powered on without flow. Does not happen often, but does happen.

So what's the solution with a VS pump that has it's own controller and schedule?

I would have guessed that the pumps would have a power-out circuit for SWG's.

 

[mknauss]

I would have guessed that the pumps would have a power-out circuit for SWG's.

The Pentair Intelliflo3 does. Also some others.
I explained the solution. A timer for the SWCG or run the pump 24/7. Some have used a current sensing device. @PoolStored can tell you about that.

 

[PoolStored]

I used a CR Magnetic current sensing relay, part number CR4395-EH-120-110-X-CD-ELR . Here's how I wired mine. I put it in it's own box.

If the pump is not running, it will turn off the SWG.

 

[JRM]

I used a CR Magnetic current sensing relay, part number CR4395-EH-120-110-X-CD-ELR . Here's how I wired mine. I put it in it's own box.

If the pump is not running, it will turn off the SWG.

Thanks. That's exactly the kind of solution I was thinking of.

It doesn't make sense to me to run the SWG on a separate timer that could get our of sync with the pump's program.

But perhaps I should have explained more clearly above, the pump and the SWG are both powered off the same 240V circuit. I could probably switch the SWG to 120V and run it off the pump-house light circuit if I needed to in order to run this relay.

 

[JRM]

The Pentair Intelliflo3 does. Also some others.
I explained the solution. A timer for the SWCG or run the pump 24/7. Some have used a current sensing device. @PoolStored can tell you about that.

Thanks, but I don't want to run the SWG on a timer that may or may not be in sync with the pump program and, I have no experience with VS pool pumps, but it seems like a waste to run the pump 24/7 in the winter time. Typically I'd only run my old single-speed for an hour or two.

 

[PoolStored]

Thanks. That's exactly the kind of solution I was thinking of.

It doesn't make sense to me to run the SWG on a separate timer that could get our of sync with the pump's program.

But perhaps I should have explained more clearly above, the pump and the SWG are both powered off the same 240V circuit. I could probably switch the SWG to 120V and run it off the pump-house light circuit if I needed to in order to run this relay.

Read the owners manual on the pump...likely it is going to say it needs to be a dedicated circuit. Check the manual on the SWG too (may not want it on the same circuit as the light).
Either
1) Get the CR4395-EH-240-110-X-CD-ELR (See my link and note the change, they have a version for 240...) and run off same circuit (barring pump restriction for sole circuit.
2) Or put the SWCG 120 on the light circuit (see any notes in the SWCG manual and don't exceed light Amp + SWG amp over 80% of the breaker)
3) Run a separate circuit for the SWCG.

 

[JRM]

Read the owners manual on the pump...likely it is going to say it needs to be a dedicated circuit. Check the manual on the SWG too (may not want it on the same circuit as the light).
Either
1) Get the CR4395-EH-240-110-X-CD-ELR (See my link and note the change, they have a version for 240...) and run off same circuit (barring pump restriction for sole circuit.
2) Or put the SWCG 120 on the light circuit (see any notes in the SWCG manual and don't exceed light Amp + SWG amp over 80% of the breaker)
3) Run a separate circuit for the SWCG.

The pump instructions only says it needs it's own dedicated circuit if it's GFCI protected. The SWG actually suggests using the same circuit as the pump if allowed. But I may try the relay on the light circuit if it has the available capacity. Thanks a lot.

 

[PoolStored]

Pumps are required to be GFCI protected.

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[JRM]

Pumps are required to be GFCI protected.

Electrical GFCI - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

That doesn't surprise me at all. Our house was built in 1967 and the pool was probably installed sometime in the 70's. The electrical panel was probably at the same time as the pool. I've spent a lot of time updating a lot of things (including GFCI's in all the bathrooms, kitchen, garage, patio, etc.). That's a good link about GFCI's. Thanks.

 

[proavia]

Current code requires a GFCI circuit breaker to the pool pump circuit.
Any electric run to pool equipment and any outdoor plugs should be GFCI protected.

If the pump and SWG are wired to the same circuit breaker and both are set to use 220v - you probably have an Intermatic T104 timer. If so, wire as follows:

• Power from the circuit breaker comes into the timer on terminals 1 & 3.
• Power to pump needs to also be on terminals 1 & 3 to provide constant power to the VS pump.
• Power to the SWG needs to be on terminals 2 & 4 to provide the timer function to the SWG.

As for setting up the SWG on a separate timer:

• Clean your filter and note the clean filter pressure. Plan on cleaning the filter when the pressure rises 20-25 percent above clean pressure.
• Determine the minimum RPM that will close the SWG flow switch.
• Add 100-200 RPM to that number to account for the filter getting dirty.
• Determine how many hours per day that the SWG needs to run to supply the necessary chlroine to your pool.
• Set timer to the hours needed.
• Set pump timer to start and ramp up to the required SWG pump RPM 30 minutes before the timer turns on the SWG and 30 minutes after the timer turns off the SWG.
• Set pump timer for any other run times necessary.
• Check the mechanical timer and pump schedule at least once weekly (and after any power outages) to be sure the times are close - adjust as necessary.

Basically, set the SWG timer to ON 30 minutes after the pump is ON and the SWG timer is OFF 30 minutes before the pump is OFF. Be sure the pump RPM is set fast enough to satisfy the SWG flow switch during those times.

While I run my pump 24/7, my clock on the VS pump and the SWG mechanical timer are within 5 minutes of eadh other after 18 months. Obviously, I don't have many power outages.....

 

[JRM]

Current code requires a GFCI circuit breaker to the pool pump circuit.
Any electric run to pool equipment and any outdoor plugs should be GFCI protected.

If the pump and SWG are wired to the same circuit breaker and both are set to use 220v - you probably have an Intermatic T104 timer. If so, wire as follows:

• Power from the circuit breaker comes into the timer on terminals 1 & 3.
• Power to pump needs to also be on terminals 1 & 3 to provide constant power to the VS pump.
• Power to the SWG needs to be on terminals 2 & 4 to provide the timer function to the SWG.

As for setting up the SWG on a separate timer:

• Clean your filter and note the clean filter pressure. Plan on cleaning the filter when the pressure rises 20-25 percent above clean pressure.
• Determine the minimum RPM that will close the SWG flow switch.
• Add 100-200 RPM to that number to account for the filter getting dirty.
• Determine how many hours per day that the SWG needs to run to supply the necessary chlroine to your pool.
• Set timer to the hours needed.
• Set pump timer to start and ramp up to the required SWG pump RPM 30 minutes before the timer turns on the SWG and 30 minutes after the timer turns off the SWG.
• Set pump timer for any other run times necessary.
• Check the mechanical timer and pump schedule at least once weekly (and after any power outages) to be sure the times are close - adjust as necessary.

Basically, set the SWG timer to ON 30 minutes after the pump is ON and the SWG timer is OFF 30 minutes before the pump is OFF. Be sure the pump RPM is set fast enough to satisfy the SWG flow switch during those times.

While I run my pump 24/7, my clock on the VS pump and the SWG mechanical timer are within 5 minutes of eadh other after 18 months. Obviously, I don't have many power outages.....

Great explanation, thank you. Especially about establishing the minimum pump speed.

Right now my timer is about 80 feet from the pump, so my first thought was that I'd need to pull new wires to do it the way you describe, but I could simply move the timer out to the pump house. (We have lots of power outages, so I doubt mine would be as stable as yours. Next I need solar...)