Fafco panel leak - before I get on the roof

[aquaman]

Hi,

I edited to reduce words.
Really quite happy that after 19 years I have my first panel leak.

Anyway - preferred repair method and contingency plans:
1. I saw the video on the Fafco repair kit and trimming out part of the diameter of individual tube and shoving plugs (1-2) at top and at bottom of channel. THAT is a lot of time on the roof with some risk of cutting adjacent tubes. Amazon Clinic

2. Use a Rainbird 1/4" connector after fully cutting the tube/channel and using this as a stent - seems simple, unless the tube pliability is lost due to age, or the connection just loosens with time (no reference to silicone sealer in this application)
3. If #2 fails though - I now have a cut tube -- would I use a 1/4 inch nylon bolt (head cut off) with added silicone caulk, put into each cut end? Or cut it all out and do these screws at the header and footer?
4. Screwing a stainless steel screw with silicone into the PCV header and footer?
5. FYI Fafco is 12 yr warranty per the installation company (saw 30 yrs in a thread here somewhere)
6. FYI saw a complaint about $65 for a service call for a leak - here in Cal, today, it is $206

 

[ajw22]

Stay safe working on the roof.

@Dirk may have thoughts on your repair.

 

[Dirk]

I have Heliocol, not Fafco, but I expect the answer is the same. If/when I get a leak, I will use Helicol's repair kit and follow their instructions religiously. Fafco most likely offers the same. I would not attempt to reinvent the best way to repair a leaking solar panel tube.

$206 might sound like a lot. But if they are licensed and insured, and reputable, then you get more for that money than the 10 minutes they're going to spend on your roof. For one, you don't have to risk life and limb. Plus, they'll be responsible for the roof if they damage it during a repair, and for the repair itself should it not hold. And theoretically they'll know the best way to do it.

Now, if it's just some guy in a ratty ol' pickup, that isn't license or bonded, or if he makes you sign a waiver saying he's not liable for your roof or the repair, then you might as well go up their yourself and do your best (which is what I would do, but I installed my system so I know it forward and backward and my roof is not steep, etc). In other words, have the expectations and limitations and liabilities clear between the parties before you give anyone the green light.

 

[Dirk]

Here's a "universal" repair kit on Amazon.

Here's another, that "implies" Fafco.

Here's one that claims to be a Fafco repair kit (but looks just line the Amazon clones)!

And the fact that some of these kits call themselves "clones" implies that there is an actual Fafco kit somewhere, I just couldn't find it quickly. Poke around, the solution is out there.

 

[Dirk]

The flip side... How old are you? Your panels are telling you that they are going to give up in the near future. If this was happening to me at my age, I would do this calculation:

This is just the first of a slew of repairs in my future. 19 years is pretty good, and might be close to all I can expect. How many times am I willing to go up on the roof, until I finally give up and have the panels replaced? I'm old enough that my next set of panels will outlive me, so why would I risk my neck a dozen times only to have to replace the panels in a few years anyway? Why not spring for them now (they're only going to get more expensive), and be done with this forever?!

Now if I was a young buck, and comfortable on the roof, I might be more willing to go up their a dozen times to get another two or three (or more) years out of 'em, and prolong the inevitable, stretch out this set of panels' lifespan as much as I can, so that I might only have to buy one more set, instead of two, in my lifetime.

Or if I knew I was going to be moving in five years or less, then that's a different calculation.

It's just math. Think it through.

 

[aquaman]

My age, height/gravity risk, sun beat panels. all bad things.
All makes sense - being on the roof is OK -- until it suddenly isn't!
The Fafco kit (clone) comes in one week...if that doesn't work I'm done.
Tried 1/4 inch nylon bolt - well, that was a little too large and there was no pliability to the tube anymore - could tell it wanted to shred if I forced it.
I tried "something" because no quick service call, no quick Fafco clone.

Thanks, I certainly whipped myself up about this situation!

 

[aquaman]

The use of an irrigation plug typically used to plug holes in 1/2 inch plastic tubing for irrigation plus teflon plus silicone so far is holding on this one fafco tube. If it springs a leak I will use the Fafco repair plugs.
BUT
a second panel has a drip at the footer (I can work from a ladder)
Still can't tell if I can use a screw into this footer?

 

[1poolman1]

The use of an irrigation plug typically used to plug holes in 1/2 inch plastic tubing for irrigation plus teflon plus silicone so far is holding on this one fafco tube. If it springs a leak I will use the Fafco repair plugs.
BUT
a second panel has a drip at the footer (I can work from a ladder)
Still can't tell if I can use a screw into this footer?

Now you have experienced what most solar companies know. If you touch an old panel and repair a leak you will be back time after time for free fixing the others that appeared because you disturbed the panel and the customer expects you to honor and extend your warranty on repairs to the new problem.
Its why I gave up doing such repairs, and a fall off a roof didn't help.
I tell my customers to expect that the company I refer them to will tell them they need a new panel if the system is approaching 10 years (the average warranty), not just to make extra profit but because there will be issues if they touch an old system.

 

[Dirk]

I tell my customers to expect that the company I refer them to will tell them they need a new panel if the system is approaching 10 years (the average warranty), not just to make extra profit but because there will be issues if they touch an old system.

And I'll remind @aquaman what I wrote previously. You might want to review my earlier post (#5).

 

[aquaman]

Dirk and Poolman (sounds like a heist movie)
I appreciate all your comments. I am occasionally bemused on TFP when a person asks a question and it really isn't answered, but 5 other subjects are brought up. Here, kind of the same, BUT the take home message is "Don't do it"
Fair!
Indulge me one more time. Hopefully some of this is amusing and interesting.

NO advice on what to do with a leak ~ 1 cm or less from the footer pipe of this Fafco panel? The way these tubes fit into the header/footer is a mystery to me. Are they heat welded in? Adhesive used? They have plastic supports between tubes at this interface.
Stainless steel screw dipped in silicone and screwed into footer?

Facts coz I'm trying to cajole your support coz I just have to fix this one thing THEN I give up:

1. Poolman, I saw seepage low on this adjacent panel (call it #2) but my focus was on the fountain on #1 upper outer edge. #2 was already a leak. You presumed I caused it I think.
Had to step on NO panels to fix #1 edge. Edge fix on #1 had me on roof only - no adjacent panel on this edge.
2. Yesterday, with a ladder, #2 work area is right in front of me. I cannot see under the panel but the tube that is leaking is doing so a 1 cm or less from the footer or could be as the tube joins footer.
3. Dirk, I will not get on the roof to step on #1 to face downward at the roof edge to work on #2. That would freak me out. I have a one story house, though it is a tall one.
I have seen guys put Xmas lights on gutters while on the roof - they say its faster. Gravity is faster!

This second leak, if properly addressed, may give me another season. If unsuccessful, or more poop happens I tap out.
Installers (probably used by all solar owners in the East Bay of SF) gave me some rough math:
13 panels x 580 =7540 and with new connectors and I betcha they recommend new everything and even PVC ~9K parts, then 150/hr for install per worker (1 or 2).

I'm gonna guess 12K for all new. And that turns into 12-14K coz they can.

With a 19 yr old pool that any fancy person would say needs a make over.
With near retirement people that want to travel with no grandkids in sight.
With a wife who will never sell the house claiming there is nowhere else to go.
With a husband who is leery that switching to photovoltaic in Cal in 2024 may not be a good deal - heat pump for pool (?) batteries (PGE does not buy back power for much) AND I'll have to make my brain hurt becoming an electric engineer, looking at my phone all the time to see how much power I'm producing. I'm in medicine. People go into medicine because advanced math and physics is only lightly needed. Now I gotta do it in my free time??

I either place this screw with your help or the sh*t goes to the dump.
No pressure, it is my dilemma.
I enjoyed writing this if nothing else!

Bob

 

[1poolman1]

Dirk and Poolman (sounds like a heist movie)
I appreciate all your comments. I am occasionally bemused on TFP when a person asks a question and it really isn't answered, but 5 other subjects are brought up. Here, kind of the same, BUT the take home message is "Don't do it"
Fair!
Indulge me one more time. Hopefully some of this is amusing and interesting.

NO advice on what to do with a leak ~ 1 cm or less from the footer pipe of this Fafco panel? The way these tubes fit into the header/footer is a mystery to me. Are they heat welded in? Adhesive used? They have plastic supports between tubes at this interface.
Stainless steel screw dipped in silicone and screwed into footer?

Facts coz I'm trying to cajole your support coz I just have to fix this one thing THEN I give up:

1. Poolman, I saw seepage low on this adjacent panel (call it #2) but my focus was on the fountain on #1 upper outer edge. #2 was already a leak. You presumed I caused it I think.
Had to step on NO panels to fix #1 edge. Edge fix on #1 had me on roof only - no adjacent panel on this edge.
2. Yesterday, with a ladder, #2 work area is right in front of me. I cannot see under the panel but the tube that is leaking is doing so a 1 cm or less from the footer or could be as the tube joins footer.
3. Dirk, I will not get on the roof to step on #1 to face downward at the roof edge to work on #2. That would freak me out. I have a one story house, though it is a tall one.
I have seen guys put Xmas lights on gutters while on the roof - they say its faster. Gravity is faster!

This second leak, if properly addressed, may give me another season. If unsuccessful, or more poop happens I tap out.
Installers (probably used by all solar owners in the East Bay of SF) gave me some rough math:
13 panels x 580 =7540 and with new connectors and I betcha they recommend new everything and even PVC ~9K parts, then 150/hr for install per worker (1 or 2).

I'm gonna guess 12K for all new. And that turns into 12-14K coz they can.

With a 19 yr old pool that any fancy person would say needs a make over.
With near retirement people that want to travel with no grandkids in sight.
With a wife who will never sell the house claiming there is nowhere else to go.
With a husband who is leery that switching to photovoltaic in Cal in 2024 may not be a good deal - heat pump for pool (?) batteries (PGE does not buy back power for much) AND I'll have to make my brain hurt becoming an electric engineer, looking at my phone all the time to see how much power I'm producing. I'm in medicine. People go into medicine because advanced math and physics is only lightly needed. Now I gotta do it in my free time??

I either place this screw with your help or the sh*t goes to the dump.
No pressure, it is my dilemma.
I enjoyed writing this if nothing else!

Bob

Heat welded to the header.
I never assume anything in the pool business, but I do point out what I've seen and experienced, and caution about what to expect. Stepping on panels is always a no-no, especially ones as old as yours, but you don't have to step on one to have a leak form three panels over. Just disturb the array.

Cut the tube flush. Get a 1/4" stainless machine screw with coarse threads and plug the hole using silicone sealant, and something to make a gasket for the screw head to seal against (even a silicone-sealant coated piece of a cereal box), if it will fit without disturbing the adjacent tubes. That's always the big issue, disturbing another area and having another leak. If its only one panel, get some Fafco pipe adapters (4) and just replace the panel with a piece of 2" pipe if it keeps leaking. Would require climbing on the roof to the highest part of the panels. You would not likely even notice one panel missing.

Have I done it? Yes. Will I again? No. Was for a friend and no charge/guarantee. When doing it for a customer it was/is always the factory way or not done. I don't want the liability. Don't really like recommending something other than that either, but it might work.

 

[Dirk]

Ah, but I did give you advice on how to fix your panels/tubes, AND a likely smarter alternative:

I have Heliocol, not Fafco, but I expect the answer is the same. If/when I get a leak, I will use Helicol's repair kit and follow their instructions religiously. Fafco most likely offers the same. I would not attempt to reinvent the best way to repair a leaking solar panel tube.

In other words, defer to Fafco instructions for repairing a panel/leaking tube. Don't invent a fix. Which is why I didn't endorse/support your various ideas (irrigation parts, screws, caulk, etc). If their instructions don't cover your specific problem, then call them and ask them what the fix is. They would know better than me.

Random replies:
- Heat pump and its installation and expense to run it will far surpass the $12K estimate to replace solar, but may give you more therms (depends on local conditions).
- I installed my own system, which was estimated at $10K at the time. I did it for $3K. It's not all that hard. Add a few hundred for proper safety gear, and you could maybe do this yourself.
- You don't need to heat your pool. Solar doesn't add all that much. Resign yourself to starting your pool season later and stopping it sooner. Use the money for trips instead.

Primary position:
Decide if you want to have a solar heater in the future. If so, stop risking injury and accept that your panels are at end-of-life. Is getting one more year out of them, at the cost of potential injury, plus worrying about them when you're not home, worth it? Get them replaced before the price goes up any higher, and put this all behind you.