I just installed a Century Vgreen EVO Vaariable speed 1.5 pump to replace my 3/4hp single speed whisper flo. The new pump is specifically made a drop In replacement. I installed and wired per the user manual, particularly the low voltage two wire RS-485 from the pump to the Easy Touch. When I press the filter pump button on the Easy panel the pump lights up but doesn’t run. Pic below shows that the pump wiring (tagged with blue tape) is connected to load instead of line which may be wrong per a previous thread I saw. But I also see that the same load wiring has a jumper that goes to some kind of transformer which concerns me. Should that jumper be moved to line as well? Software version for Easy Touch is 2.09.
Easy Touch 8 variable speed pump upgrade
- Thread starter tomrthepooluser
- Start date
Tom,
As far as I know the EasyTouch will not communicate with the EVO..
They both have RS-485, but they do not use the same format..
It could be I am just behind the times, so tell me why you think they should work??
Thanks,
Jim R.
As far as I know the EasyTouch will not communicate with the EVO..
They both have RS-485, but they do not use the same format..
It could be I am just behind the times, so tell me why you think they should work??
Thanks,
Jim R.
Thanks for replying Jim. The EVO is advertised specifically for use with various systems as well as drop in replacement for whisperflo. I’ve attached the user manual pages that apply to using it with various automated systems. I’m my Initial discussion with a Pentair tech befor I installed the EVO he thought maybe the software version was out of date since my easy touch was installed in late 2010 (but the label on the panel says 2011) and he also said that any software version post 1.5 SHOULD work (my version is 2.09) but I don’t think he knew for sure. I only have a couple weeks left to be able to return this pump (if they will even take it back) so any help is certainly appreciated. The manual says to make sure the pump runs before doing any schedule programming so I have not changed any settings whatsoever on the easy touch yet. Just trying to get the evo to run when I push the “F” button.
Attachments
- May 23, 2015
- 24,425
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
The transformer is for the IntelliChlor SWG. It should be connected to the load side of the FILTER relay. The pump connections should be moved to the LINE side of the FILTER relay as VSP need to receive continuous power. Their runtimes are controlled by the automation panel.
Not sure about RS485 control. The manual does seem to indicate it is possible for the ET panel to communicate with the motor controller. The last page says that it can take up to 60 secs for a single command to be received by the motor from the panel. Did you wait that long?
Honestly speaking, mixing and matching motors with automation systems is something we don’t recommend. I realize the Pentair brand VSP is A LOT pricier than some of the off brand VSPs but it is also the “Gold Standard” of variable speed pool pumps. My IntelliFlo dates back to 2013 and, knock on wood, is still running perfectly fine to this day. You simply can not match their longevity and ease of integration with an existing Pentair control system. For that reason alone, I think their extra cost is worth it.
Not sure about RS485 control. The manual does seem to indicate it is possible for the ET panel to communicate with the motor controller. The last page says that it can take up to 60 secs for a single command to be received by the motor from the panel. Did you wait that long?
Honestly speaking, mixing and matching motors with automation systems is something we don’t recommend. I realize the Pentair brand VSP is A LOT pricier than some of the off brand VSPs but it is also the “Gold Standard” of variable speed pool pumps. My IntelliFlo dates back to 2013 and, knock on wood, is still running perfectly fine to this day. You simply can not match their longevity and ease of integration with an existing Pentair control system. For that reason alone, I think their extra cost is worth it.
Thank you for the reply. I’ll make the wiring change. As an aside I don’t use the intellichlor anymore. Regarding pumps, my original “Pentair” whisperflo single speed pump still works after 14 years but it is made by A.O. Smith which is now Century. The new EVO pump I’m trying to get working is made by Century as well. I don’t know with certainty but I doubt Pentair manufactures their own pumps.
Tom,
With a single speed pump, the pump filter relay and the 'F' switch would just turn the pump on and off..
Not at all the case with a VS pump..
Several things have to happen... Edit.. This is how the IntelliFlo works, I 'assume' your VS pump would be the same if it is supposed to be a drop in replacement..)
1. The system must be in AUTO..
2. A Circuit needs to be on, normally the Pool Circuit, but it can be any circuit.
3. The Circuit that is on, needs to have a speed assigned in the EasyTouch
4. The pump needs continuous AC power, it is NOT powered by the load side of the pump filter relay, like a single speed pump would be.
5. The pump type needs to be 'VS' on the speed set up page.
6. Pushing the 'F' button in the Service mode will not start the pump
7. Pushing the 'F' button in Auto, will not start the pump unless all the above is true. **
** I think that if no Circuit is on when in Auto, then pushing the 'F' button will but the system into the Pool mode..
Thanks,
Jim R.
With a single speed pump, the pump filter relay and the 'F' switch would just turn the pump on and off..
Not at all the case with a VS pump..
Several things have to happen... Edit.. This is how the IntelliFlo works, I 'assume' your VS pump would be the same if it is supposed to be a drop in replacement..)
1. The system must be in AUTO..
2. A Circuit needs to be on, normally the Pool Circuit, but it can be any circuit.
3. The Circuit that is on, needs to have a speed assigned in the EasyTouch
4. The pump needs continuous AC power, it is NOT powered by the load side of the pump filter relay, like a single speed pump would be.
5. The pump type needs to be 'VS' on the speed set up page.
6. Pushing the 'F' button in the Service mode will not start the pump
7. Pushing the 'F' button in Auto, will not start the pump unless all the above is true. **
** I think that if no Circuit is on when in Auto, then pushing the 'F' button will but the system into the Pool mode..
Thanks,
Jim R.
Last edited:
- May 23, 2015
- 24,425
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Single speed pumps operate very differently than variable speed pumps. SSPs simply turn on and off with a relay control or mechanical timer. VSPs need to be continuously powered and are controlled either by their on-board controllers or through remote control via serial communication with a controller. The specific RS485 protocols are unique to each manufacturer and they typically do not share them with other companies. EVO probably got some stripped down interface protocol from the various pool equipment makers to make their pump work with the automation panel but only at the cost having very few features. No equipment manufacturer would give away their control protocols to a competing company. Pentair is basically playing nice with EVO but not inclined to help them out much.
While the electrical motor for the IntelliFlo pump could come from any overseas manufacturer, Pentair does make their own “pump” which is the wet end, motor end, and control system. They don’t just buy someone else’s pump and put their label on it.
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What you say looks to be true enough. After talking with Pentair a second time I got the following email response:
Sorry for the delay. My master tech advised that our automation does not work well with pumps that are not our own.
Some pumps allow for them to be wired to use digital inputs to control them but you would need a pool pro to help with that since we do not get into installation over the phone.
Basically, if it isn't a Pentair branded pump it will not communicate through the data port. You can reach out to that manufacturer to see if the pump you purchased has digital input controls. if it does you will need to reach out to a service team for help with that type of install.
The digital input controls would make it where you could have multiple speeds, but it would be done on the pump and that's not a typical install. It would be best to have a Pentair pump if you plan to keep the ez touch controls.
Hope this helps.
Jim thanks for the response again. Please look at the response from Pentair that I posted as a reply to JOYFULNOISE. I’m inclined to try to return this EVO pump but since I havnt done some of the things you’ve advised here I wonder if I just am losing confidence. Pentair is no help and this Eco is expensive. I suppose I could use it as a single speed backup for when my whisper flow dies or I could use it as a variable speed if I forget the Pentair easy touch and operate it manually. Do you have any confidence that it will work with the easy touch?
To be fair, I acknowledge that this really isn’t a Pentair problem since it’s not a Pentair product. I guess it’s more a problem that I don’t yet know how to program the automation system to find out if this EVO actually works in the system. I have the pump running but I don’t have ez touch control of it.
Tom,
I think it would make sense to take a day or two and see if you can get the pump to communicate with the EasyTouch.. Assuming you have the time to do that and still return the pump if necessary..
With an IntelliFlo, it is easy to tell when the pump is connected via the RS-485 com port as the Display will say... "Display not active". Looking at the EVO manual it says...
When the pump is being controlled by the Automation "the light on the EVO will be continuously lit.." And later is says "when in the Service mode, the light will blink"..
I have no idea what light this is, and your pics do not say, but if you put the EasyTouch in the Service mode and "the'" light changes from steady to blinking, that would be a pretty good indication that the EasyTouch is talking with the EVO.. If you can not get that part to work, nothing else matters.
Another thought is that if the buttons on the pump work when in the Service mode, but they do not work when the EasyTouch is in AUTO, that would tell us that the pump is being controlled by the automation, even if not yet running.
Try that and let us know what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.
I think it would make sense to take a day or two and see if you can get the pump to communicate with the EasyTouch.. Assuming you have the time to do that and still return the pump if necessary..
With an IntelliFlo, it is easy to tell when the pump is connected via the RS-485 com port as the Display will say... "Display not active". Looking at the EVO manual it says...
When the pump is being controlled by the Automation "the light on the EVO will be continuously lit.." And later is says "when in the Service mode, the light will blink"..
I have no idea what light this is, and your pics do not say, but if you put the EasyTouch in the Service mode and "the'" light changes from steady to blinking, that would be a pretty good indication that the EasyTouch is talking with the EVO.. If you can not get that part to work, nothing else matters.
Another thought is that if the buttons on the pump work when in the Service mode, but they do not work when the EasyTouch is in AUTO, that would tell us that the pump is being controlled by the automation, even if not yet running.
Try that and let us know what happens.
Thanks,
Jim R.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,425
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I read the manual. Did you set the dip switches to the proper position for “SCHEDULE SET D” mode which is their automation control mode? It looks like you have to set the dip switches, then turn the power on, then turn the power off, then attach the RS485 cable, and finally cycle the power back on to the pump and automation system. This appears to be a specific process to get the two systems to communicate. You may even need to check that the address number of the pump and the ET panel match.
It’s up to you how much fiddling around you want to do before returning the pump. I’m sure the Century folks want to do their best to make their pump compatible but that is not really in the best interest of Pentair that wants to sell its own pump. Pentair is not wrong for doing what they do - the pool equipment market is small in relation to over consumer products market and so they need to protect their customer/revenue base. They want Pentair customers buying Pentair products. Unfortunately that leaves the pool owner locked into a specific vendor for a long time. None of the big three (Pentair, Hayward, Jandy) are perfect, so often times it’s just comes down to purchasing based on the manufacturer rather than the lowest price.
It’s up to you how much fiddling around you want to do before returning the pump. I’m sure the Century folks want to do their best to make their pump compatible but that is not really in the best interest of Pentair that wants to sell its own pump. Pentair is not wrong for doing what they do - the pool equipment market is small in relation to over consumer products market and so they need to protect their customer/revenue base. They want Pentair customers buying Pentair products. Unfortunately that leaves the pool owner locked into a specific vendor for a long time. None of the big three (Pentair, Hayward, Jandy) are perfect, so often times it’s just comes down to purchasing based on the manufacturer rather than the lowest price.
Thank you Jim (and Joyfulnoise),
What you said is just what I needed. The EVO is working as advertised and control with the Easytouch is now the same as it was with the single speed pump. The EVO is plug and play so long as you pay attention to the delays and the necessity to exit the Programming menus on the easy touch before changes take affect. And also the com wiring in the motor RS485 seems to be reversed as compared to the user manual but since there are only two wires that’s easy enough to troubleshoot. SUPER quiet pump even at 3450 rpm. Thanks again, there’s no way I would have done this myself without you guys and the forum.
Tom,
Just to be clear... Do you have different speeds set up in the EasyTouch? Can your EasyTouch now change the speed of your pump, based on the schedules in the EasyTouch?
Or... is the EasyTouch just turning the EVO on and off and all the programming is in the pump??
Thanks,
Jim R.
Everything is being controlled through eztouch. For now I have programmed four circuits: pool, spa, spillway, and freeze(which is a circuit function). Each is programmed with a different rpm. I don’t need to touch the pump for anything, not even service mode since everything is operational via both the ez touch panel and the ez touch indoor keypad. My pool stays open all year so I can use the spa in the winter as it is heated with a gas heater on the occasions that I want to use it but when pool season comes I’ll have to figure what the best rpm settings are for proper filtering and heating.
There's no best rpm for heating and filtering. It's 100 rpm above the the lowest limits of the SWCG and the heater. You may want to have a higher rpm for a few hours when the season drops its stuff from the trees to skim a bit better otherwise the heater and SWCG don't care of the speeds. If you have a main drain you'd want to keep it only 15% open and the rest of the suction should be through the skimmers so that the pool always skims.
I don’t use a saltwater generator but since I have a sand filter I thought that a certain pressure is required for it to operate properly and that the pressure is dependent on rpm/flow rate???
Tom,
Why is that??? It is very odd for anyone that has had a SWCG pool to go back to tablets???
Just curious..
I have three saltwater pools, and would just as soon fill them in with dirt as not have them be saltwater pools...
Thanks,
Jim R.
Well probably my lack of knowledge but within a month of my newly built pool the salt generator failed and was replaced by the pool contractor at no charge. Less than a year later it failed again and the pool contractor said he’d get Pentair to send me a new free of charge but that never happened so I called Pentair and they said that since there are are so many factors regarding pool chemistry that could have made it fail they would not replace it. Since the cell cost $800 I abandoned the technology. Unfortunately I received zero training on maintaining my pool and I had never had a pool before so all of my learning came as time went by and I’ve done all of my chemistry ( with occasional pool store analysis)and mechanical repairs myself over the past 14 years. So no doubt I’ve taken a naive path.Tom,
Why is that??? It is very odd for anyone that has had a SWCG pool to go back to tablets???
Just curious..
I have three saltwater pools, and would just as soon fill them in with dirt as not have them be saltwater pools...
Thanks,
Jim R.
Tom,
Of course we don't know the whole story, but most IntelliChlor cells last 5 to 7 years..
I've been through three cells and they all lasted 7 or more years.
I suspect there is more going on, then the cells just going bad. About 75% of reported 'bad' cells are not bad at all, it is just the case of the pool owners not understanding how a saltwater pool works.
It is like buying all your chlorine your pool would need up front..
Thanks for the feedback.
Jim R.
Of course we don't know the whole story, but most IntelliChlor cells last 5 to 7 years..
I've been through three cells and they all lasted 7 or more years.
I suspect there is more going on, then the cells just going bad. About 75% of reported 'bad' cells are not bad at all, it is just the case of the pool owners not understanding how a saltwater pool works.
It is like buying all your chlorine your pool would need up front..
Thanks for the feedback.
Jim R.