cloudy after pool party

[Dirk]

If you've got it solved, then great. But just a few weeks ago we had a new member struggling with her SLAM. We told her about hunting down hidden algae, at least twice. More struggling: the pool was clear but she couldn't pass OCLT. When she finally took her ladder apart, she found algae, cleaned it, and she passed her OCLT that night. She later admitted that she was positive the algae couldn't have gotten into the ladder because its tubing was all capped off. Just sayin'...

 

[Punchyp]

well.... i guess i better take it out and look. hope i don't tear something up getting it out.
does anyone out there know how to get a wall ladder like the attached pic out? I know there are 3 or 4 screws on each side

 

[reggiehammond]

Just googled "in wall pool ladder" and found a few install videos and product listings.
Not sure if those are meant to be removed. The screws you see may be holding the flashing that hold back the liner.

You can always back one screw off a bit and see what you find/see.

 

[Dirk]

well.... i guess i better take it out and look. hope i don't tear something up getting it out.
does anyone out there know how to get a wall ladder like the attached pic out? I know there are 3 or 4 screws on each side

Yah, sorry, I wasn't picturing that kind of ladder, and don't know anything about them. Logic-wise: if the ladder and its seals are part of the waterproof membrane that is your vinyl liner, then unless it is leaking there can't be any algae behind it. None, that is, that could reinfect the pool. That's just my intuition.

@kimkats, do we have a vinyl pool expert that can weigh in on whether the OP should try to inspect this type of ladder for algae, or leave it alone? @JamesW, thoughts?

 

[kimkats]

Do NOT take that ladder out!!

Okay got that out of the way. That ladder is like the steps. If you take them out you will have a problem on your hand as the liner was cut to find the ladder in that hole.

What I want you to do is donate a tooth brush to the pool. Take the toothbrush out to the pool and use it all around the ladder, steps, returns, skimmer facing, etc.

Next I want you to look CLOSE at the skimmer door (it is called a weir door). We had one were it had a small crack that let some water in and it started it's own algae farm.

 

[mgtfp]

so I lowered the FC to about 3 before I added the ascorbic acid, and after that i could not keep up with the FC loss for the 2 week no slam period req'd after ascorbic acid and metal flocculant treatment. I did not add algaecide per direction, because i was not letting FC go to zero.

Even though you didn't let FC go down to zero before adding AA, it did go straight down to zero immediately after you added the AA. Chlorine and AA react very quickly with each other until FC is at zero, or all AA has been neutralized by chlorine, whatever occurs sooner.

While there is AA in the water, a pool can't hold chlorine. That's why the algaecide is recommended during the treatment, to mitigate an algae-outbreak during the treatment as much as possible while FC is zero.

After the treatment, it takes a lot of chlorine to neutralize all the AA. Only once all the AA has been neutralized, the pool will start holding chlorine again. That's why you couldn't keep up with the FC-loss in that 2-week period - you probably still had AA in the pool.

After the AA treatment, you should have (slowly but consistently) kept adding liquid chlorine until the pool started holding chlorine again. This requires testing FC a while after each chlorine addition to not miss the point when FC starts to hold again and accidentally get up to SLAM-level.

 

[Punchyp]

so.... i did not attempt to take out ladder once i saw how its attached. its behind the metal bead that the liner hangs on, so i would have to pull liner away from wall so decided not to try that.
The dead algae accumulation and chlorine consumption is continuing. I passed the oclt for one night only, on tuesday night now its back to losing 3 to 4 overnight. I scrubbed all the walls, and entire floor of the pool last night, dosed to 21 and was down to 17 this morning. I will definitely take closer look at inside of the skimmer door when i get home, that's about the last place it can be, I did not take the return jet covers and directional eyeballs out yet, I suppose that's a spot i should look at.
This is year 24 for me and this pool, i've never had a problem like this one. I inspected the inside of old chlorinater that is still in-line but not used anymore, nothing in there visible.
i so badly want to add a string of cuss words here to describe my distain of this problem.!@#$!$%@#%Y#^&&I%*O^)%WE$$$$

 

[Punchyp]

after a bunch of posts in the testing and balancing section, i have decided that i have Mustard algae. Been struggling for about a month now slamming and slamming and slamming to no avail.
I described it and showed some pics but no one suggested that mustard algae was a possibility. gray gunk settling/growing on seams and depressions.
Question: can i get rid of this with brushing and vacuuming and slamming or do i really need to add an algaecide?
i'm trying to avoid adding metals as i already have some staining, but this is costing me a lot of money in liquid chlorine. i have passed the OCLT on two different nights and the next day i lose 8 ppm and it starts all over again.
vinyl liner, plastic, in-wall ladder, in wall light. it has to be living on the surface and seams of my liner, but we've vaccd every day but have not brushed as diligintley as we should.

 

[Texas Splash]

I went back and reviewed your previous SLAM thread. Based on that thread and your description above, I'm not so sure you have Mustard Algae (MA). You can also read the MA article below. But if you wish to treat for MA, it's nothing more than the normal SLAM Process except you will increase the FC to MA level for 24 hours only (no swimming). But at the rate of FC you are losing in just a few hours, that appears to be something more active than just MA. Since you noted removing the drain covers and light in your other thread, the only "unknown" is that in-wall ladder (see thread below) which I do not believe can/should be removed. Kim already said not to remove that ladder, and I tend to agree. But just for giggles, I'll ask @jimmythegreek if there is any way to remove an in-wall ladder like the one in your thread below. If not, then something else is being overlooked.

cloudy after pool party

If you've got it solved, then great. But just a few weeks ago we had a new member struggling with her SLAM. We told her about hunting down hidden algae, at least twice. More struggling: the pool was clear but she couldn't pass OCLT. When she finally took her ladder apart, she found algae...

www.troublefreepool.com

Mustard Algae

Today We are going to show you how you can get rid of mustard algae in your pool. By following the steps in this guide and with no expensive chemicals.

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[Punchyp]

my wife looked at the backside of skimmer door, nothing visible there, but it sounds like this stuff is invisible and protects it's roots and just regrows in the same spots.
She is home brushing pool, around all the edges, the ladder, and 3 return jets.
if it truely is invisible to the naked eye, should i remove the light again and scrub the inside of the light niche'? i just looked in there the other night and it looked clean and stainless steely.

 

[Texas Splash]

should i remove the light again and scrub the inside of the light niche'? i just looked in there the other night and it looked clean and stainless steely.

Normally we recommend leaving it out for a day or two because they get so filthy, but if you cleaned it and it was squeaky clean, there may not be any benefit. Certainly up to you though.

 

[Punchyp]

i think we are making headway but still not there, going to keep brushing and vacc-ing and slamming.
Lost 6ppm yesterday in daylight hours, dosed it back to 20 at about 8:30p, but fell asleep and did not test after that dose. It was 17 this morning, dosed it back to 20 again and left for work. Wifey is brushing everything again today and I'll be home all weekend to stay on it, hopefully by Monday this crud is history, if not gone i'm going up to MA level of 30 and see if that kills it. there's nowhere left for it to hide, except in the water itself. I read that MA can grow/live free floating in the water. It may not be MA but whatever it is, it has survived about 20 gallons of chlorine. in the last month.

 

[Punchyp]

Normally we recommend leaving it out for a day or two because they get so filthy, but if you cleaned it and it was squeaky clean, there may not be any benefit. Certainly up to you though.

I finally found the "colony" and passed the OCLT last night. this was an unbelievably small amount of algae, in my mind to cause this chlorine loss, but it seems to be holding now. on Saturday, after another OCLT fail, I finally got in the pool with a hand scrub brush, was working my way around, came to the...... LADDER!!!!!
Where the liner is cut out for ladder, the algae was between that cut edge and the face of the ladder, mostly across the bottom, there was some on sides also but down low where its shady. Yesterday i took and empty needle syringe and filled it with Ch and squirted all around the edges of that ladder and liner. I guess it doesnt take much algae to wreek havoc on chlorine. Lesson learned..... if i pass OCLT again tonight i'll be back on easy street. thanks to all at TFP!

 

[Texas Splash]

Good find.

 

[Punchyp]

Decided to write a final note on my algae battle. I've never experienced anything like this before. I added up the chlorine i put in since July 21 to yesterday Aug 1 fighting this tiny-tiny little area of hidden algae: just over 6 gallons.
Now, had i listened to ya'll early on i would have detail brushed the pool sooner and found this on day one, but i was looking for a big green wad of algae somewhere, That's not the case at all, this outbreak was about 2 feet by 1/4" little area between edge of liner cut and face of plastic wall ladder.
If you zoom in on the picture at the bottom of ladder, where it looks kind of dark, that's where it lived. i brushed it out with little brushes that got between the liner and ladder, then took an empty syringe, filled it with chlorine and squirted it all around and in those edges. ZERO chlorine loss last night, and no more gray gunk on pool floor.
I learned a couple of valuable lesson with this experience.
1. it does not take much very algae to cause major chlorine loss,
2. i will brush my pool more than once a year!
THANKS TFP!

 

[PoolStored]

Congratulations!!!! Go Swim!

 

[Punchyp]

Most people who successfully SLAM will hold SLAM levels for an additional day or two, just for insurance.
I'd consider doing an OCLT again each night, just to confirm.

The photos you shared seem to show dead algae - so I'd still be a bit worried.

Wondering what is an acceptable FC loss during a 90 degree sunny day, shallow pool, full sun?
I am passing the OCLT every night since i cleaned algae problem but still getting a little bit of the gray gunk settling, nothing like it was but still some showing up and i'm losing 4 to 5 ppm from morning till dark.
To raise FC from 5 to 8, i'm adding at least a quart per day of 10% LC. Does that seem excessive to you? I'm going to put solar blanket on this weekend to finish out the pool season here in indiana, so that should help with daytime FC loss. Last full test results: FC=5.0, CC 0, PH 7.4 Alk 60 Cya 50 water temp 82.
Let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

[reggiehammond]

Wondering what is an acceptable FC loss during a 90 degree sunny day, shallow pool, full sun?
I am passing the OCLT every night since i cleaned algae problem but still getting a little bit of the gray gunk settling, nothing like it was but still some showing up and i'm losing 4 to 5 ppm from morning till dark.
To raise FC from 5 to 8, i'm adding at least a quart per day of 10% LC. Does that seem excessive to you? I'm going to put solar blanket on this weekend to finish out the pool season here in indiana, so that should help with daytime FC loss. Last full test results: FC=5.0, CC 0, PH 7.4 Alk 60 Cya 50 water temp 82.
Let me know what you think. Thanks!

4 to 5ppm is maybe a touch more than I’d expect at 50 CYA - but it’s pretty close. Surprised you’re still killing off algae though

 

[Punchyp]

4 to 5ppm is maybe a touch more than I’d expect at 50 CYA - but it’s pretty close. Surprised you’re still killing off algae though

yeah, me too. maybe its just dirt and/or pollen, some of it is different color, more brownish and its 80 to 90% less than when i was fighting the algae. Also my liner is so white/bleached out after 10 years old, and the water is so clear now, that you see every little speck of anything. If the liner was darker, you probably could not see what i'm seeing now.
Also i feel that the CYA test is subject to some interpretation, i rounded it up to 50, it might be 44.7 or some other odd number which would make a difference in the FC. loss.
I'll keep monitoring, Thanks!

 

[duraleigh]

I skimmed this entire thread and saw no discussion of filter psi, pump running 24/7, vacuuming, etc......all the things that are also involved and probably FAR MORE influential than a tiny discovered patch of algae. I saw only partial references to test results........our cornerstone of diagnosis.

I think we sometimes overlook teaching the fundamentals of the SLAM process and making sure those fundamentals are followed to a T. That's what clears up a pool..........sticking to our basic principles and not chasing minutiae