Chlorine drop to ~0 ppm after calcium addition. UPDATE: Now with controlled test.
- Thread starter Brian PacNW
- Start date
-
- Tags
- calcium chlorine chlorine drop
- Nov 30, 2019
- 854
- Pool Size
- 8500
- Surface
- Fiberglass
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Hayward Aqua Rite (T-15)
You mean before testing FC and noticing an unexplained drop? I’d have to comb through Poolmath to look but I believe I’ve tested at various intervals, anywhere from 4 to 10 hours pump run time.
- May 23, 2015
- 24,436
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
I really don’t believe this is a testing error. A testing error would be a couple of drops worth of difference, not entire ppm’s worth of decrease. And this isn’t a figment of internet imagination either - it’s real phenomenon and it’s simply unexplained at this point.
There are many food grade and non-food grade additives to chemicals that act as anti-caking agents. Some of them are reducing agents. Since chlorine is an oxidizer, a reducing agent will cause the chlorine to convert to chloride. MSDS documents only tell an incomplete part of a retail chemical products story. There are limits to what a manufacturer is required to disclose and if the composition contains a non-toxic substance that is at a low enough threshold, it can easily become a non-reportable component or added to the ambiguous list of “proprietary blend”.
Only controlled experiments could tease out the nature of the issue and, honestly, calcium increaser is just not that important in the world of pool chemicals. If anyone wants calcium increaser, they’re welcome to come haul away some of my pool water … it’s guaranteed clean, filtered, and loaded with lots of “good for you” calcium!!
There are many food grade and non-food grade additives to chemicals that act as anti-caking agents. Some of them are reducing agents. Since chlorine is an oxidizer, a reducing agent will cause the chlorine to convert to chloride. MSDS documents only tell an incomplete part of a retail chemical products story. There are limits to what a manufacturer is required to disclose and if the composition contains a non-toxic substance that is at a low enough threshold, it can easily become a non-reportable component or added to the ambiguous list of “proprietary blend”.
Only controlled experiments could tease out the nature of the issue and, honestly, calcium increaser is just not that important in the world of pool chemicals. If anyone wants calcium increaser, they’re welcome to come haul away some of my pool water … it’s guaranteed clean, filtered, and loaded with lots of “good for you” calcium!!
I'm on the way with a 15,000 gallon tanker truck and a 5 hp pump.
I have a 4" diameter hose and the ability to pump at 250 gpm, so it will only take about an hour.
These are the chemicals listed in the SDS
Recreational Water Products is the manufacturer for all of the Pool Mate products located in GA.
POOL TIME® CALCIUM HARDNESS INCREASER is the name of this particular product.
Component CAS-No. Weight percent
calcium chloride 10043-52-4 75 - 97 %
sodium chloride 7647-14-5 1 - 2 %
potassium chloride 7447-40-7 2 - 3 %
- May 23, 2015
- 24,436
- Pool Size
- 16000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-60
Pretty awesome when you get the bucket of CH increaser that is 102% pure!! I bet they charge a premium for that one
As that MSDS proves - the numbers are very much rough estimates. The only time you could ever trust a product composition is if it comes with a Certificate of Conformance which is basically an analysis from a 3rd party company that guarantees the composition and minimum purity of a given product. MSDS/SDS documents are not certifications. They are estimates and statements of what is in a product so that if there is ever a potentially dangerous situation (accidental ingestion, uncontrolled environmental release, personnel exposure, etc, etc), then first responders and medical professionals will know what to do. The federal government and state governments define what sections are in an MSDS and what information must be included. But it is left up to the company selling the product to enter in the information and they are NOT required to back up their information with proof or outside certification. They can literally say, “we googled chemical XYZ and it said that the pH of a 1% solution is ABC …”. So, in that sense, MSDS’s are not that useful.
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I still need to do a more controlled test. Will try to do so tonight. If it is indeed the calcium, I’ll post to brand and such.
No discoloration that I can see.
102%Pretty awesome when you get the bucket of CH increaser that is 102% pure!! I bet they charge a premium for that one
As that MSDS proves - the numbers are very much rough estimates. The only time you could ever trust a product composition is if it comes with a Certificate of Conformance which is basically an analysis from a 3rd party company that guarantees the composition and minimum purity of a given product. MSDS/SDS documents are not certifications. They are estimates and statements of what is in a product so that if there is ever a potentially dangerous situation (accidental ingestion, uncontrolled environmental release, personnel exposure, etc, etc), then first responders and medical professionals will know what to do. The federal government and state governments define what sections are in an MSDS and what information must be included. But it is left up to the company selling the product to enter in the information and they are NOT required to back up their information with proof or outside certification. They can literally say, “we googled chemical XYZ and it said that the pH of a 1% solution is ABC …”. So, in that sense, MSDS’s are not that useful.
It's more premium than the de-icer I get at Walmart. lol
OP here. I did a controlled test overnight. As a result I’m throwing away the calcium increaser.
Two samples of about 1.75 gal of pool water each with FC at around 7.5 ppm. The pool calcium is around 200 ppm. To one bucket I added 2.27 grams of my calcium increaser which should have brought it up by 280 ppm or so according to the bag. (1 lb for 100 pm increase in a 1000 gal pool).
Left them both for about 10 hours overnight.
In the morning the control sample was at 6.5 ppm FC while the dosed sample was at 3.0 ppm. Based on my previous experience I’m surprised it didn’t fall further.
The brand was Robelle from Amazon. See photos.
Two samples of about 1.75 gal of pool water each with FC at around 7.5 ppm. The pool calcium is around 200 ppm. To one bucket I added 2.27 grams of my calcium increaser which should have brought it up by 280 ppm or so according to the bag. (1 lb for 100 pm increase in a 1000 gal pool).
Left them both for about 10 hours overnight.
In the morning the control sample was at 6.5 ppm FC while the dosed sample was at 3.0 ppm. Based on my previous experience I’m surprised it didn’t fall further.
The brand was Robelle from Amazon. See photos.
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Contact the manufacturer and ask them what is in the product that is causing the FC to drop.
Robelle Customer Care is available to take your call or e-mail regarding our products and pool care, Monday thru Friday (except major holidays), between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. EST.
By Phone: (781) 297-7422.
By Email: [email protected]
By Mail: 60 Campanelli Drive. Braintree, MA 02184.
www.robelleind.com
Robelle Customer Care is available to take your call or e-mail regarding our products and pool care, Monday thru Friday (except major holidays), between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. EST.
By Phone: (781) 297-7422.
By Email: [email protected]
By Mail: 60 Campanelli Drive. Braintree, MA 02184.
Contact Us - Robelle
They asked for the order number an hour or so after I emailed. Haven’t heard back from them since I sent it along. This was yesterday. I’ll bug them again soon.
They got back to me this morning, after I bugged them.
They said they are "at a loss" but mentioned my chlorine level was high (6 ppm) so that might affect how other chemicals behave.
So either they truly don't know or aren't saying. Which is worse?
They said they are "at a loss" but mentioned my chlorine level was high (6 ppm) so that might affect how other chemicals behave.
So either they truly don't know or aren't saying. Which is worse?
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I'll bet you they don't even understand what your asking. The answers they give is from something they're reading off a computer screen.
Correct. They are not saying that they don't know.
It's probably better off because whatever they said would likely be as ridiculous as that your 6 FC mattered. I added mine around 12 without issue. A different brand had different anti caking additions or impurities that got you. Plain and simple.
They probably buy the product from a supplier and they just put it in the bags and buckets.
Tell them to ask their supplier what is causing the FC drop or to tell you who they buy their product from so you can contact them.
Tell them to ask their supplier what is causing the FC drop or to tell you who they buy their product from so you can contact them.
