Calcium phosphate scale
- Thread starter 98Poolmaster
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The Case of the Mysterious Pool Deposits
The 80,000-gallon resort pool, which had been operating flawlessly for years, had suddenly developed a very expensive, very troubling problem.
www.aquamagazine.com
Phosphate levels are typically very low and measured in PPB (Parts per Billion).
However, the solubility of calcium phosphate is very low, so it does not take much phosphate to reach solubility.
People used to use Trisodium phosphate as a calcium remover before they figured out that adding a bunch of phosphate was a bad idea.
You can use lanthanum based products to precipitate out phosphate if you are at risk of getting calcium phosphate scale.
However, the solubility of calcium phosphate is very low, so it does not take much phosphate to reach solubility.
People used to use Trisodium phosphate as a calcium remover before they figured out that adding a bunch of phosphate was a bad idea.
You can use lanthanum based products to precipitate out phosphate if you are at risk of getting calcium phosphate scale.
Thank you @JamesW there is a product we have been selling that is called Acid Blue which is a buffered MA.Several members informed me that it may contain unknown additives that contain phosphate.Reading the MSDS has me a little concerned and now questioning the product.I greatly value your insight and expertise and would ask if you can look at it and see anything that you would think would make this product not worthy.We have used it and it seems to work the same as MA.
Your insights would be greatly appreciated.
The product says proprietary ingredients.
Without knowing the exact ingredients, I cannot assess what the product might or might not do.
Why are you using this product vs. regular muriatic acid?
My general rule is to avoid adding anything that contains unknown ingredients.
Contact the manufacturer and ask them what is in the product.
Without knowing the exact ingredients, I cannot assess what the product might or might not do.
Why are you using this product vs. regular muriatic acid?
My general rule is to avoid adding anything that contains unknown ingredients.
Contact the manufacturer and ask them what is in the product.
Proprietary pH Balancer 1 is probably Phosphoric Acid (H3PO4) CAS 7664-38-2.
That does add phosphates to the water.
Proprietary pH Balancer 2 is probably Oxalic Acid
That does add phosphates to the water.
Proprietary pH Balancer 2 is probably Oxalic Acid
This page says phosphate free, so I don't know.
If they won't tell you what is in the product, I would not use it.
www.kleanmatters.com
If they won't tell you what is in the product, I would not use it.
AcidBlue Muriatic Acid | Kleanmatters
AcidBlue's Next Generation of Muriatic Acid has a formula that protects your skin and reduces harmful vapors. Find low fume muriatic acid at Kleanmatters.com.
www.kleanmatters.com
We don't have actual chemistry rules here. But if we did, know what you're adding to the pool, and know what it will do, would be 2 of the top 5. In all likelihood it'd be 2 of the top 3, because you'd also have to test to know how much of XYZ to add.
It's worked this long for you, but even a small gamble is a gamble. Do you get it at a discount ? For me it's $5 more a gallon at Ace, so it's a double no brainer.
Thank you to both, appreciate your taking the time and effort.We sell it as a “safe” version of MA(which I never fully agreed with that explanation) and I wasn’t completely sold when we first starting using years ago our maintenance techs used in the field and we didn’t notice any difference in dosages.I know it is mainly marketing/ packaging and bottled for appearance.
Customers have not had concerns or differences in test results,but I have always recommended using chemicals(MA 31.45%)/(SHC 12.5%)based on the TFP methods.After testing thousands of samples with very high CYA due to tablets and DiChlor shocks I have explained to a high number of pool owners the best way to keep your water right is this method.A lot of them want to just drop tablets in a floater or feeder and forget about it or put shock bags because it is easier.Unfortunately they all don’t listen and just continue to do it their way so what more can you do after trying to educate them on this method.The smart ones come on TFP after I tell them about the forum and they end up with the best pools.
They appreciate my honesty and when they need equipment,remodeling,parts or advice they come to us.
Once again I appreciate your feedback and explanation. It’s great having people who you can ask questions to and get an excellent answer to your situation.After being in the pool industry for twenty five years it’s nice to know you can still learn something new everyday and always can find the answers if you know where to look.
Thank you again
- Mar 5, 2020
- 3,047
- Pool Size
- 66000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Astral Viron V35
Glad to hear about your approach to run a pool shop. Good on ya, and keep up the good work.
yes this will help you!The Case of the Mysterious Pool Deposits
The 80,000-gallon resort pool, which had been operating flawlessly for years, had suddenly developed a very expensive, very troubling problem.
We get PLENTY of them here.
Some people recognize the collective wisdom here that their issue has been seen thousands and thousands of times for almost 2 decades. Others think we're just another FB/reddit group to rage argue with. Or. That they are the lucky 1,000,000th customer that gets a different outcome and wins a toaster.
You can't win them all.
If I need a real answer I come to TFP. I know if you can’t get the answer here I won’t get it anywhere.Its really amazing people that have had pools for decades and still year to year don’t understand CYA or the difference between FC TC and CC.I met a girl who worked at Leslie’s very nice girl but she knew products not chemical names or properties.I asked her PH of sodium hypochlorite and Cal hypo and she had no clue.I asked her about MPS and she looked at me puzzled and I said non chlorinated shock and her reply was oh yah we carry that,she had no clue what it did.I asked her if she ever learned how to use the Taylor kits they sell and she said no I just send them to our website they have tutorials on there.So I totally understand the reason the chain pool stores have a bad rep, it’s deserved because they just push products and the testing is hit and miss.There are stores out there who take the time and effort to do things the right way, but they are definitely few and far between .I pride myself on learning and guiding customers to the way that benefits them and not our register.If you are honest and passionate about what you do and say people will come back and trust you, and when they need a repair or equipment they come to me and ask us to do.Very rarely do they ever ask me a price just when can we get out there, to me that is the ultimate compliment you can get when you have built that trust with pool owners.Thank you everybody on this forum who take their time and effort to help people,you guys are not getting paid and still provide awesome insights and knowledge,that’s really cool!!We get PLENTY of them here.
Some people recognize the collective wisdom here that their issue has been seen thousands and thousands of times for almost 2 decades. Others think we're just another FB/reddit group to rage argue with. Or. That they are the lucky 1,000,000th customer that gets a different outcome and wins a toaster.
You can't win them all.
You can also get calcium oxalate scale.
Calcium oxalate crystals are the most common cause of kidney stones.
About 76% of kidney stones are partially or entirely of the calcium oxalate type.
I have had them multiple times James they friggin hurt major bad and they were oxolate stones.3.5 mm once and 4 mm
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