Calcium nodules after pool replaster

jamese

Member
Mar 1, 2019
23
Huntington Beach, CA
Pool Size
13000
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Liquid Chlorine
I had my pool replastered January 2019. In December 2019 a small area on the side of the pool caved in. The contractor drained the pool and made a repair. In February 2021, I reported several stains and some etching on the surface. A representative that came to look at the issue suggested they were calcium nodules. The pool was drained, acid washed and two of the more significant stains were attended to leaving a 6 inch circular patch. I suspect they sanded some of the other spots. Less than a year later I noticed a new stain (probable calcium nodules) appearing at the joint where the patch material joined the existing plaster at both of these two round patches. Also, numerous other stains, many with etching, started appearing (or reappearing). For 10 months I phoned the contractor every 3 to 4 weeks, each time I was told someone will be contacting me to come and see the pool. About 13 phone calls were made. Finally someone came to look at the pool. I was told the calcium nodules are not covered by warranty. My options were to (1) buy some wet/dry sandpaper and dive down to sand the spots, or (2) pay them to “Drain pool sand calcium nodules. Apply micro Glass to pool surface. $ 1,850.” He also informed my calcium hardness level was in the higher end of the acceptable range and suggested I drain half the water in the pool and fill back with fresh water.

I took a look at the warranty and in the 4 pages of small print, I discovered a sentence that read: “ASPP shall not be responsible for spot etching & calcium nodule formation.”

I figured at this point that I am on my own. Before draining some half my water from the pool to lower the calcium hardness, I took a water sample to the local Leslie’s store to be tested. I wanted to get a second opinion that draining half the water in my pool was necessary and would be effective. I described the situation to the Leslie’s employee with 16 years of experience. He was extremely surprised at the way my situation was being handled by the contractor. He further pointed out that calcium nodule issues are most often caused by the improper startup (chemical balance) when filling the pool with water. This can cause the plaster not to cure properly. Included in my Sales Agreement was “INITIAL WATER TREATMENT” for a charge of $595.

My question is: should I expect the contractor to take responsibility for this problem and remedy the damage caused by calcium nodules? Or should I just accept their position that calcium nodules are not covered?
 
As usual the 16 year Leslie employee does not know what he is talking about and gives incorrect information. We recommend people stay out of Leslie.

Calcium nodules is caused by spot delamination and poor surface preparation of existing plaster before new plaster is applied. Startup and water chemistry is not a factor.

Your high CH water may need to be drained for other reasons but it is not causing the nodules.

The plaster company knows they will not be perfect with surface preparation which is why they specifically exclude calcium nodules from their warranty. And why we recommend full chipouts for best results of replastering a pool.

Nothing is going to stop the delamination from continuing to create nodules. All you can do is smooth them out when they occur.

Your next replaster should include a full chipout of both layers of plaster.

Read…

Calcium Nodules in pools What are calcium nodules? In swimming pools and spas, they are small mounds, bumps, deposits, or “slag” piles of calcium carbonate which are formed from material that has been released from the plaster. The small calcium nodules are rough to the touch, hard, and generally gritty. Nodules may form singularly (far apart or sporadically), or many and close together along a crack in the plaster surface
 
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Jamese,

I have a rent house pool that I had replastered that now has calcium nodules.

I can tell you from first hand experience, that sanding the nodules will not "fix" anything. It will make the nodules go away for a few months, but most of them will come right back.

I could type more, but Allen's post above is spot on. The main problem is not removing all of the delaminated spots in the original plaster surface. Since finding all of these delaminated spots is really hit or miss, the only solution is to do a full chip out.

Sorry,

Jim R.
 
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Is this the same ASPP in Orange?
If so, you had one of the largest plaster companies with one of the best reputations around.

Does not really matter how good the company is, it only matter how good the install crew is...

Since nodules often don't show up for a year or more, they are never going to admit it was an install error.

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
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I took a look at the warranty and in the 4 pages of small print, I discovered a sentence that read: “ASPP shall not be responsible for spot etching & calcium nodule formation.”

My question is: should I expect the contractor to take responsibility for this problem and remedy the damage caused by calcium nodules? Or should I just accept their position that calcium nodules are not covered?
Calcium nodules are caused by delaminations.

So, your claim is delaminations, not calcium nodules.

Bond failure is due to defects in materials and/or workmanship, which should be covered under warranty.
 
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1696517263980.png





 

What is the warranty on a newly plastered/finished pool & spas?

10 years for residential and commercial swimming pools. The warranty is on bonding- we guarantee our plaster will not detach, peel, or break. There is also a materials and workmanship warranty.



Here’s what you really need to know​

Our pool resurface warranty is 10 YEARS! Once we resurface your pool, it is NOT coming off. We use advanced pool prepping technology that creates a high strength bond.






 

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Many thanks to all for your great information and advice!!! This is the information I was hoping to see.

ajw22 points out that the calcium nodules is caused by spot delamination and poor surface preparation of existing plaster before new plaster is applied. He recommends a full chipout of existing plaster. Please note my sales agreement states they performed Hydro Blast 40,000 PSI Demo of Plaster Surface. Is this method suitable and comparable to a full chipout? You can see the YouTube videos attached that promote this method. I witnessed this method used on my pool replaster.

Jimrahbe says the only solution is to do a full chipout. Should I expect the equivalent of a full chipout from the Hydro Blasting?

Yes this is ASPP in Orange. They were recommended to me by a couple people in the pool maintenance industry because of their good reputation. I must say the customer service has been horrible during the past year or more since I have been dealing with this issue. As stated in my original post, it took me 10 months and over a dozen phone calls before ASPP came to look at the problem. Only to tell me that it was not covered by the warranty. Of course they didn’t tell me the calcium nodules are caused delamination.

JamesW sums it up really well:
  • Calcium nodules are caused by delaminations.
  • So, your claim is delaminations, not calcium nodules.
  • Bond failure is due to defects in materials and/or workmanship, which should be covered under warranty.
I am planning to write a letter to ASPP asking for a remedy or solution to this problem. What is my recourse if they refuse to admit any responsibility?

Kindest regards,
Jim
 
Jim,

I would think that Hydro-Blasting would be the same as a full chip out, but again, it just depends on how well it was done..

Any idea how many times your pool has been replastered in the past??

@JamesW knows more about it than I do..

Thanks,

Jim R.
 
Did they remove all plaster down to gunite?

Did they do tile or coping or just plaster?

Did they use a bond coat before replaster.

Do you have pictures?

If they don't accept responsibility, then you might have to get an expert to examine the plaster and give a professional opinion about delamination.
 
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Ask the NPC for their opinion.


Alan Smith is the owner of Alan Smith Pools.

He is a founding member of the National Plasters Council (NPC) and chaired their research committee.

He has also served on and chaired the NPC board of directors.

In 2007, Alan designed and built the National Pool Industry Research Center at Cal Poly, Sans Luis Obispo, and chaired its Advisory Board under Cal Poly’s Environmental Engineering Department.

Alan is a national speaker and lecturer on swimming pool resurfacing, construction, and engineering subjects.


 
The “APSP 2013 Workmanship Guidelines and Practices” Book indicates that the plasterer is responsible for bond failure.

1696517263980-png.534172



The below article explains the formation of nodules due to delaminations.

The article is by @onBalance and they are one of the top experts in the world on plaster.




1696608092149.png




 
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You indicated that the side of the pool wall caved in. Please explain. What caved in? The plaster coat, or what? Do you have photos of that?
Also two round patches were installed. Were they plaster patches? Where in the pool are the nodules? How many are there? Please provide two or three photos of some nodules.
 
Thanks for your continued support. I don't have a photo of the cave in before the repair. Water was still in the pool. I do remember it being half-moon shaped maybe 4 or 5 inches in length. Not sure what caved in. There was actually a pretty deep crevice, so I don't if it was just the plaster coat. It wasn't just a crack. May have been a pocket between the plaster and the gunite. I attached a photo after the repair while the pool was empty. Also remember someone from the working crew telling me he remembered being on this job when the pool was replastered and was not surprised of this problem as this area was wet. Not sure what he meant. Attached is a couple of photos of nodules. There are about a dozen nodules. One photo is one of the two patches that were made. I can't tell you if they are plaster patches. The nodules are randomly located at the bottom of the deep end of pool.

Did they remove all plaster down to gunite? I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK SO. ISN'T THAT THE NORMAL PROCEDURE?

Did they do tile or coping or just plaster? JUST PLASTER. LEFT ORIGINAL TILE AND COPING.

Did they use a bond coat before replaster. I DO NOT KNOW. THERE WAS NEVER ANY MENTION OF THIS TO ME. I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT REPLASTERING AND DEPENDED ON THIS REPUTABLE COMPANY TO DO THE RIGHT THING. I AM THINKING THEY DID NOT BECAUSE THEY NEVER DISCUSSED THIS WITH ME.

Do you have pictures? ATTACHED.

Thanks again so much James. May have screwed up attaching the photos. I can resend if you need. poolside cave in.pngP1.jpgP2.jpgP19.jpg James.
 

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James, I found a couple more photos. These were taken after the pool was drained and before the workers came to do the repair. I marked the areas that were concerning with orange masking tape. If you zoom in on the photos, you can see perhaps about 20 spots marked with tape. This is when the two circular patches were made. I suspect they patched the two most severe spots and simply acid washed and sanded the other spots. I don't know what they actually did. Just guessing. BTW nobody ever mentioned to me that this was a calcium nodules issue at this time. If they were confident with their quality of workmanship, why did they do the repairs and not say anything about not being covered by warranty? Then 2 years later they finally come out to see the pool (after 10 months of calling) and said they are calcium nodules not covered by warranty?
 

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