AZ Pool Build

[AndyMac1]

New here,
I'm in AZ, so it has some of it's own unique challenges, and trying to sift my way thru a new pool build. We've met with 2 pool builders, and gotten 2 renderings so far, and meeting with a 3rd builder this week.
Some of my questions.
We were going to for sure go salt water pool, but one of the builders recommended a traditional chlorinated pool due to cost, ease of maint on the system, and says if the pool is done well, we won't have an overly chlorinated pool. I'm stumped on this one.
Tile color, we wanted a mexican themed pool, with pool/spa tile, and a stamped terra cotta tile decking, Same pool builder as above warned us the tiles will need quite a bit more up keep and cleaning, and are prone to cracking. He also warned against the decking we wanted due to heat, slipperyness, and calcium staining from pool water being splashed on it. Our area of AZ has very hard water, and it's hot as balls in the summer. His recommendation, and what he prefers is Kool Deck, and a light tan pool tile color, and we should "highlight" our pool with Terra Cotta and cobalts, and mexican tiles, and to just keep them out of the water.

Whats the verdict on Kool Deck, I've read other places people don't like it, and to stay away from it.
Also, anyone in AZ have issues with dark, or bright colors on their pool tiles?

Here are couple of our first renderings, since most people like pictures in forums.

 

[ajw22]

New here,
I'm in AZ, so it has some of it's own unique challenges, and trying to sift my way thru a new pool build.

Lots of AZ pool builds have been here. Every pool build has its challenges.

We were going to for sure go salt water pool, but one of the builders recommended a traditional chlorinated pool due to cost, ease of maint on the system, and says if the pool is done well, we won't have an overly chlorinated pool. I'm stumped on this one.

Go salt water.

How is a "traditional chlorinated" pool easier to maintain?
What is done well versus not done well?
The issue is not "an overly chlorinated pool", the issue is increasing CYA when using Trichlor as the chlorine source.

Tile color, we wanted a mexican themed pool, with pool/spa tile, and a stamped terra cotta tile decking, Same pool builder as above warned us the tiles will need quite a bit more up keep and cleaning, and are prone to cracking. He also warned against the decking we wanted due to heat, slipperyness, and calcium staining from pool water being splashed on it. Our area of AZ has very hard water, and it's hot as balls in the summer. His recommendation, and what he prefers is Kool Deck, and a light tan pool tile color, and we should "highlight" our pool with Terra Cotta and cobalts, and mexican tiles, and to just keep them out of the water.

One builder likes to diss what the other recommends.

People here talk about how their Kool Deck is worn and needs refinishing and the issues of recoating a Kool Deck.

 

[setsailsoon]

Andy,

Welcome to tfp. You certainly come to the right place. We don't sell anything so our advice is always unbiased. Not necessarily true with pool builders and pool stores. All you have here are volunteer experts in pool enthusiasts that like to share advice and experience to other pool owners.

We still find pool builders that resist salt pools although there are way fewer now. Pool builders that resist just don't understand the technology and they avoid things they don't understand. I get it but salt pool operation is a bonanza to the owner. More of a pain in the neck for the Builder that's trying to install something they don't know anything about. My recommendation definitely do salt. I converted my last pool after a couple years of operation with traditional chlorine and will never go back. This is partly because my wife loves the softer feel and less harsh real of the saltwater. Also don't confuse us on water pool with seawater. It barely has any song compared to seawater it's more like Spa water. Only about 10% of the salt that sea water has.

As to the deck surface personal preference rules here. There really is no wrong answer although in very strong sunlight like you have and I have we should consider how hot the surface will get. We went with a leather finish marble 16x24 paper and we are thrilled with it now that it is almost complete. Doesn't have a lot of glare and is easy to walk on after hours of direct hot Florida Sun. There are many other choices that result in this. Your pool builder may know a lot about building a pool and be a great Builder. So these comments are not intended to tell you you have a bad Builder. You can tell that from other areas. It's just that he clearly doesn't understand salt pools and he may be conflicted with a special deal that he gets for the kind of surface he puts down or you may just have a lot of satisfied owners with it. You should check a few references before you make up your mind. And if you haven't signed a contract yet have you checked the terms and conditions? They should be fair and easy to understand. If they're not, or you don't understand if they are or if they are post another question here. We'll be glad to offer Our advice.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[AndyMac1]

Andy,

Welcome to tfp. You certainly come to the right place. We don't sell anything so our advice is always unbiased. Not necessarily true with pool builders and pool stores. All you have here are volunteer experts in pool enthusiasts that like to share advice and experience to other pool owners.

We still find pool builders that resist salt pools although there are way fewer now. Pool builders that resist just don't understand the technology and they avoid things they don't understand. I get it but salt pool operation is a bonanza to the owner. More of a pain in the neck for the Builder that's trying to install something they don't know anything about. My recommendation definitely do salt. I converted my last pool after a couple years of operation with traditional chlorine and will never go back. This is partly because my wife loves the softer feel and less harsh real of the saltwater. Also don't confuse us on water pool with seawater. It barely has any song compared to seawater it's more like Spa water. Only about 10% of the salt that sea water has.

As to the deck surface personal preference rules here. There really is no wrong answer although in very strong sunlight like you have and I have we should consider how hot the surface will get. We went with a leather finish marble 16x24 paper and we are thrilled with it now that it is almost complete. Doesn't have a lot of glare and is easy to walk on after hours of direct hot Florida Sun. There are many other choices that result in this. Your pool builder may know a lot about building a pool and be a great Builder. So these comments are not intended to tell you you have a bad Builder. You can tell that from other areas. It's just that he clearly doesn't understand salt pools and he may be conflicted with a special deal that he gets for the kind of surface he puts down or you may just have a lot of satisfied owners with it. You should check a few references before you make up your mind. And if you haven't signed a contract yet have you checked the terms and conditions? They should be fair and easy to understand. If they're not, or you don't understand if they are or if they are post another question here. We'll be glad to offer Our advice.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

Thank you for the reply,
We haven't gotten into picking anyone yet, we've had 2 builders come by, and measure our property and discuss ideas so far. Meeting with a 3rd this week who so far has only done a rendering for us, and not discussed decking, tile, prices etc.....
Of the 2, some had good ideas and input, and appears to just be what they are comfortable with installing, or what they typically install, IE....Kook Deck, and inline chlorinating.

 

[AQUA~HOLICS]

Tile color, we wanted a mexican themed pool

Tiles actually from Mexico that the customer picked up.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum.
I am going to be blunt, pretty pools are very hard to create and keep pretty in our conditions. You can give it a shot, but I will stress that you must have softened water for make up water, a SWCG, and if you have that many steps, etc, a lot of time to brush and clean the pool.

Here is my 'ultimate' pool for our conditions.
Rectangle, benches so water hits at shoulder height, auto cover, chiller, small heater, softened water for make up, saltwater chlorine generator, VS pump, automation. Stay away from deck jets, sheer descents, waterfalls, etc.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Oh my Lord DO NOT use terra cotte or saltio tiles outdoors here … that would an absolute nightmare for upkeep and you will cook your feet or melt your shoes on them in the summer heat.

If you plan to have a pool here and your area has hard water … pretty much all of AZ does … then you need a whole house water softener and a hook up to it for the pool autofill. Builders will balk at doing that and make all kinds of outrageous claims about how you can’t do it, or it’s against code, or you’ll kill the softener … don’t believe them. I did it and it is a HUGE benefit to not have to fight calcium hardness in a pool. Any tile you choose will thank you for it. Otherwise, you will get grey/white calcium scale all over your tiles that is an expensive nightmare to clean off.

 

[bmoreswim]

Welcome to the forum.
I am going to be blunt, pretty pools are very hard to create and keep pretty in our conditions. You can give it a shot, but I will stress that you must have softened water for make up water, a SWCG, and if you have that many steps, etc, a lot of time to brush and clean the pool.

Here is my 'ultimate' pool for our conditions.
Rectangle, benches so water hits at shoulder height, auto cover, chiller, small heater, softened water for make up, saltwater chlorine generator, VS pump, automation. Stay away from deck jets, sheer descents, waterfalls, etc.

Everyone building a pool in AZ/NV should bookmark this post. And they should examine each choice they make that contradicts his thoughts and ask themselves why is this right for me but not for Marty? This list is different because it's not personal, but environmental, in it's makeup.

 

[TheNameIsSam]

Whats the verdict on Kool Deck, I've read other places people don't like it, and to stay away from it.

We're happy with it but...

From what I've been told, Cool Decking of today is not the same as Cool Decking from back in the day. While it may be cooler than concrete or tile, it still gets hot during our intense summers. You won't be able to stand on them for long even if your feet are wet. Ours is light grey.

Please tell me that the Cacti are for illustration only.

 

[AndyMac1]

We're happy with it but...

From what I've been told, Cool Decking of today is not the same as Cool Decking from back in the day. While it may be cooler than concrete or tile, it still gets hot during our intense summers. You won't be able to stand on them for long even if your feet are wet. Ours is light grey.

Please tell me that the Cacti are for illustration only.

Yes and no for the Cacti, there will infact be large Saguaro's near the pool, but they aren't real.
These are 14ft tall, and there are also 12's and 10's. I'll be going with 2 of the 14's as they really are striking and have the look I'm going for.

 

[Stija]

New here,
I'm in AZ, so it has some of it's own unique challenges, and trying to sift my way thru a new pool build. We've met with 2 pool builders, and gotten 2 renderings so far, and meeting with a 3rd builder this week.
Some of my questions.
We were going to for sure go salt water pool, but one of the builders recommended a traditional chlorinated pool due to cost, ease of maint on the system, and says if the pool is done well, we won't have an overly chlorinated pool. I'm stumped on this one.
Tile color, we wanted a mexican themed pool, with pool/spa tile, and a stamped terra cotta tile decking, Same pool builder as above warned us the tiles will need quite a bit more up keep and cleaning, and are prone to cracking. He also warned against the decking we wanted due to heat, slipperyness, and calcium staining from pool water being splashed on it. Our area of AZ has very hard water, and it's hot as balls in the summer. His recommendation, and what he prefers is Kool Deck, and a light tan pool tile color, and we should "highlight" our pool with Terra Cotta and cobalts, and mexican tiles, and to just keep them out of the water.

Whats the verdict on Kool Deck, I've read other places people don't like it, and to stay away from it.
Also, anyone in AZ have issues with dark, or bright colors on their pool tiles?

Here are couple of our first renderings, since most people like pictures in forums.

View attachment 572894View attachment 572895View attachment 572896

I absolutely agree that you should go with traditional chlorinated pool. Salt water adds complexity and managing salt and chlorine levels vs just chlorine levels. More things to watch and additional equipment for zero benefits to you.

I suspect you wont be using Himalayan salt to enjoy its mineralizing benefits but HomeDepot or Walmart salt which does nothing but make water salty so that eqpt can make chlorine.

I am not against complexity, i have ozone and uv on my pool, but i dont like unnecessary complexity. So what do you suspect salt will do for you? I could be missing something and would love to learn. In the end it is chlorine in both cases sanitizing your pool.

Good luck w terra cotta decking, hard to find anyone that will do it and if they do you will overpay in price for what you are getting. It is AZ so anything will get hot unless you have shade.

Water has calcium deposits so anything dark whether tile or stone or grout will build up deposits if in contact w pool water, as you are aware already i am sure.

I build pools for a living as in I own an Az pool company. I also have a pool myself. So take my 2c for what its worth.

If you have a water softener absolutely connect it to the autofill.

 

[ajw22]

I absolutely agree that you should go with traditional chlorinated pool. Salt water adds complexity and managing salt and chlorine levels vs just chlorine levels. More things to watch and additional equipment for zero benefits to you.

I suspect you wont be using Himalayan salt to enjoy its mineralizing benefits but HomeDepot or Walmart salt which does nothing but make water salty so that eqpt can make chlorine.

I am not against complexity, i have ozone and uv on my pool, but i dont like unnecessary complexity. So what do you suspect salt will do for you? I could be missing something and would love to learn. In the end it is chlorine in both cases sanitizing your pool.

Good luck w terra cotta decking, hard to find anyone that will do it and if they do you will overpay in price for what you are getting. It is AZ so anything will get hot unless you have shade.

Water has calcium deposits so anything dark whether tile or stone or grout will build up deposits if in contact w pool water, as you are aware already i am sure.

I build pools for a living as in I own an Az pool company. I also have a pool myself. So take my 2c for what its worth.

If you have a water softener absolutely connect it to the autofill.

Welcome to TFP.

You are welcome to your opinions but TFP recommends SWGs as the easiest and most cost effective way of chlorinating a pool.

We do not recommend ozone and UV as they are not needed in an outdoor pool. The sun supplies all the UV you need.

Feel free to read Pool School and Further Reading to learn what we recommend and why.

 

[tommelton]

I would not own a pool that does not have a SWG. And I agree UV and ozone are not needed in an outdoor pool. I do have to use liquid chlorine in the winter months here in Georgia to keep the chlorine levels up, but during normal months - I just adjust the SWG up/down to meet the needs of the pool. Much easier than lugging jugs of chlorine continuosly.

 

[setsailsoon]

I live in South Florida with its fair share of blistering hot summer sun but not quite as hot as AZ. We started with traditional chlorine and converted to swg a couple years later. I found maintenance to be way easier. And wife loved the "spa like" feel. @Stija is quite correct they both use chlorine. Salt pools generate the cl with a little more salt in the water than most traditional chlorine pools. But salt is not really consumed when you look at the entire chemical reaction. Salt does get wasted to the drain when you have a lot of rain though and that's what requires adding a bag every now and then. I do also know several people that don't like the slippery feel to the water but they are a very small fraction of people that have tried both. There are also still quite a few good builders that steer clear of salt pools. Their numbers are dwindling as they get more knowledgeable about the technology. But there still are quite a few.

Like many things to do with pools personal preference drives the right answer for you. Another thing that's definitely true is pool care is the easiest and cheapest using TFP methods. I just found TFP swg to be much easier for me and my wife now requires it so what I like most is irrelevant.

I hope this is helpful.

Chris

 

[AndyMac1]

I absolutely agree that you should go with traditional chlorinated pool. Salt water adds complexity and managing salt and chlorine levels vs just chlorine levels. More things to watch and additional equipment for zero benefits to you.

I suspect you wont be using Himalayan salt to enjoy its mineralizing benefits but HomeDepot or Walmart salt which does nothing but make water salty so that eqpt can make chlorine.

I am not against complexity, i have ozone and uv on my pool, but i dont like unnecessary complexity. So what do you suspect salt will do for you? I could be missing something and would love to learn. In the end it is chlorine in both cases sanitizing your pool.

Good luck w terra cotta decking, hard to find anyone that will do it and if they do you will overpay in price for what you are getting. It is AZ so anything will get hot unless you have shade.

Water has calcium deposits so anything dark whether tile or stone or grout will build up deposits if in contact w pool water, as you are aware already i am sure.

I build pools for a living as in I own an Az pool company. I also have a pool myself. So take my 2c for what its worth.

If you have a water softener absolutely connect it to the autofill.

Thanks for the reply, we also have very hard water, as well other elements in our water, which, asking around with some folks near us, has changed our mind from a SWG pool. People in my area are changing out their SWG every 2 to 3 years, and that is not something we want to deal with.
We have also moved away from the Terra Cota/ Saltilo tiles, and are going with a light travertine coping, and then using pavers for the rest of the area around the pool.
We have our final pool rendering completed, and are waiting for the builder we chose to get back from vacation next week to sign a contract with them to start.
This is our final pool rendering, the landscaping is not quite accurate, as we were trying to get the pool design locked in before they went on vacation.
We ended up moving the spa and rock around based on views, and it worked for the best as now the spa will be easy access from the sliding glass doors, vs. walking all the way around the pool to get to it.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

People in my area are changing out their SWG every 2 to 3 years, and that is not something we want to deal with.

Not trying to be argumentative but if this is the case then they are doing something very wrong and/or likely relying on pool service companies to do their pool care.

My first SWG cell lasted 8 years. I’m on my second cell and it’s going strong at 4+ years. When you care for your pool water properly, and use the correct pool care methods, SWG cells last a long time.

My water is just as hard as any place in the Phoenix area and I just looked at my cell this past Monday. It was clean as whistle and needed no cleaning. That’s 2 years of continuous use.

Also, if you are relying on pool builder advice please realize that they don’t have your best interest in mind … they have their bottom lines. If SWGs aren’t profitable for them to install versus something else, they will often come up with any excuse to sell you that “something else” even when it flies in the face of reason.

Your pool, your money, and your choice. But there are many of us here who would rather fill our pools in with dirt than live without an SWG.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I wouldn't do pavers anywhere that bare feet will touch them. Kool Decking still gets hot but not as hot as pavers will. Our 22 yr old, single owner Pebbletec pool with Kool Deck and fake saltillo tile around the edge still looks good even with only one acid washing. I know, that opens another can of worms. We have had Goldline Controls/Hayward SWG the entire time and aside from times I haven't watched the pool close enough I have had black algae once and yellow three times - in 22 years. I get 5+ years from my salt cells. We filter the 11000 gallon playpool with cartridges, a forced water skimmer and in-floor cleaning system (with only one dead spot). We haven't even had to replace any floor heads since the originals were replaced as they failed in the first few years. We use the aerator from June into September to keep the water temp down. One thing I would not do again is have a rock waterfall made from crumbling granite boulders. I constantly have sand in the pool from the waterfall, though it's mesmerizing when it is running and the now-grandkids love to jump off of it.

 

[Stija]

I am not using UV and Ozone because it is needed, much like SWG is not needed either. I was making an example that i do not mind complicating things when i want to, and SWG is not what i wanted. But none of the 3 are needed.

As a builder it matters not to me if you want a SWG or not—you are paying for it. I make no profit on parts, and again, client pays to buy it and install it. Just my advice is that unless you like salty water then there is no benefit to it, it is not needed. In the end you still end up w chlorine as a sanitizer. Is 4ppm of chlorine generated by SWG different than the 4ppm that comes from Bleach? Not at all. But you will be adding salt and adjusting SWG or adding Bleach, so you choose which you prefer.

Question for those who would not do a pool without a SWG, what is the benefit of SWG over simple chlorination? Please explain, i would love to learn.

Also, why would a builder not have clients best interest at heart? This goes counter to everything i do, as a builder. I try to satisfy clients needs so that for years to come they tell friends how i gave good advice and not merely took their money and built a pool. 75% of my builds are client referrals. And unhappy clients dont refer.

Lastly, some of you alluded that taking care of your water and equipment properly will make the SWG last for years. That right there is an admission of “complexity” of doing things right vs not doing it right. I on the hand dump Bleach (liquid) and no worry about any equipment or maintenance required with adding a SWG, nothing can go wrong with a SWG one does not have.

Silver travertine is a very popular choice for pool coping and decking in az, but ANYTHING will get hot unless shaded and i found porous marble to be the coolest decking material but it stains easily (wine, coolaid, etc).

 

[AndyMac1]

Not trying to be argumentative but if this is the case then they are doing something very wrong and/or likely relying on pool service companies to do their pool care.

My first SWG cell lasted 8 years. I’m on my second cell and it’s going strong at 4+ years. When you care for your pool water properly, and use the correct pool care methods, SWG cells last a long time.

My water is just as hard as any place in the Phoenix area and I just looked at my cell this past Monday. It was clean as whistle and needed no cleaning. That’s 2 years of continuous use.

Also, if you are relying on pool builder advice please realize that they don’t have your best interest in mind … they have their bottom lines. If SWGs aren’t profitable for them to install versus something else, they will often come up with any excuse to sell you that “something else” even when it flies in the face of reason.

Your pool, your money, and your choice. But there are many of us here who would rather fill our pools in with dirt than live without an SWG.

I'm no where near Phx, I'm in a rural town, and our well has very very hard water.

Also, I'm getting my advice from owners in my area, as well as a local pool service technician.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I'm no where near Phx, I'm in a rural town, and our well has very very hard water.

Also, I'm getting my advice from owners in my area, as well as a local pool service technician.

Have you measured your well water parameters - pH/CH/TA ? I assure you, it’s possible to run an SWG even in high hardness water. My first cell, 8 year service life, spent most of those years with the pool water calcium hardness between 650ppm to nearly 1500ppm. And the cell remained clean and operational the entire time. It’s a matter of preventative maintenance and proper pool care. Most pool owners don’t properly care for their pools and leave it up to service techs that do an even worse job at it. Then they wonder why things go bad … if a person never changes the oil in their car until the low oil service light comes on, is that the person you should be taking advice on auto care from?