Alkalinity and PH problems

[Mdragger88]

Let’s see what @JoyfulNoise knows about Neutra7.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

I wouldn’t worry about the treated water having Neutra7 in it. It’s just an acid-base buffer used to correct the pH imbalance of acidic water supplies. It won’t affect your hot tub chemistry much at all.

 

[Cape cruiser]

Thanks Mdragger88 and JoyfulNoise ! I think with everyones suggestions Im on the right path to straighten this out.

 

[phonedave]

Thanks Mdragger88 and JoyfulNoise ! I think with everyones suggestions Im on the right path to straighten this out.

Just remember what @Mdragger88 said. Tubs are small, and a small amount can cause a big change. Go slow, undershoot, and test after adding.

 

[Cape cruiser]

Thanks phone dave !

 

[Cape cruiser]

Hi all. I finally got all my chems and TF 100 pro test kit and so far a major difference, seems like there was a major improvement in using TF test kit. I will probably get back to you all when I switch over to bleach. I have a few questions. Will it be normal to have to test and add chlorine every day? I also over shot the CH at 175. Is that ok being slightly over or do I need to drain a little water out and refill ? Also on the pool math app is shows adding chems by weight,is that the preferred way or can they be added by volume ? Also is there a setting for pool math that is for spa tub or just for pools? (EX -shows CH at 350-550 ppm). Thanks again to all of you for getting me back on track. Appears that local pool water test and 2 different test strips were my major issues. Bret

 

[Mdragger88]

Ch of 175 is ok.
There’s no real need to add ch to a spa unless foaming is an issue.
One less thing..

Dry things are measured by weight
Wet things (liquids) are measured by volume.
That’s just how it is.
For salt & boric acid I use a food scale. No biggie as this only occurs every 6 months or so.
That said, for dichlor or the occasional but rare baking soda addition I use the google conversion tool to get tablespoon & teaspoon amounts since they are so small.
These are meant for volume but works fine for getting the expected rise in my tub. Ymmv.

Sorry, no specific spa stuff in poolmath (yet).
Just select vinyl if your spa is acrylic or rotomolded & bleach as the sanitizer & the recommended ranges shown should be fine. If some of the out of range warnings bug you you can toggle them off in the advanced settings.

 

[Mdragger88]

For heavy stuff (1# or more) I used to use my people scale before I had a food/postal scale and just weigh myself with & without the chem. Now I just about can eyeball it upon startup. I have a big measuring cup that gets used for the salt & boric acid. There’s really not that much dry stuff to measure aside from dichlor occasionally. My main additions in the tub are liquids- bleach & a little Muriatic acid.
The only other dry thing I measure is cya for my pool and it comes in 4# packages usually so I can eyeball 1/4 or 1/2 of the package.

 

[Cape cruiser]

Ch of 175 is ok.dragger88
There’s no real need to add ch to a spa unless foaming is an issue.
One less thing..

Dry things are measured by weight
Wet things (liquids) are measured by volume.
That’s just how it is.
For salt & boric acid I use a food scale. No biggie as this only occurs every 6 months or so.
That said, for dichlor or the occasional but rare baking soda addition I use the google conversion tool to get tablespoon & teaspoon amounts since they are so small.
These are meant for volume but works fine for getting the expected rise in my tub. Ymmv.
View attachment 579282
Sorry, no specific spa stuff in poolmath (yet).
Just select vinyl if your spa is acrylic or rotomolded & bleach as the sanitizer & the recommended ranges shown should be fine. If some of the out of range warnings bug you you can toggle them off in the advanced settings. Thanks Mdragger88. I am used to pristine blue where everything is teaspoon and ML. It is AMAZING to me how far off 3 different test strips and 2 pool stores were of on testing that led me astray. . I bought miriatic acid that I dont need now cause even with my TA at 70 my PH still needs to be raised. I stole my wifes baking scale to measure everything out so all seems good now. Thanks to all of you wonderfull people for helping me through this. I might have a question or two when I swith to bleach. Bret

 

[Mdragger88]

So you are still using the pristine blu? Or dichlor?

 

[Cape cruiser]

So you are still using the pristine blu? Or dichlor?

OH no im done with pristine blue. Dichlor from now on using this sites system then switching to bleach. PB scares me now after hearing replys on here about it not being sanitary.

 

[Mdragger88]

OH no im done with pristine blue. Dichlor from now on using this sites system then switching to bleach. PB scares me now after hearing replys on here about it not being sanitary.

The dichlor is acidic so it is pushing your ph down.
It only takes a few slam fc level doses to achieve 30ppm or so with the dichlor. You also don’t have to solely use it for chlorination until you reach 30ppm if your ph can’t take the hit right then.
You can use liquid chlorine any time. Just follow the appropriate fc levels for the cya level you have calculated.
Here’s how each 1/2 oz of dichlor affects your spa.

After you reach about 30ppm cya and begin using solely liquid chlorine you’ll still need a little dichlor every now & then to keep cya up as the hot water does degrade cya over time. I keep my tub pretty hot (104F) so I use a little dichlor instead of bleach every couple weeks.
In a covered spa the cya is needed to buffer the harshness of necessary fc levels on people, equipment, & surfaces.
Cya levels anywhere between 20-40 accomplishes that. Beyond that it gets a bit hard to maintain the proper
FC/CYA Levels. Below that its either too harsh or you may dip to zero fc too easily if you start out at low fc levels.
For a manually chlorinated spa most find that they need to dose fc somewhere between target &/or up to slam fc level for their cya after use to get them through to the next use/dose without risking falling below minimum.
Your frequent testing before & after use will be your guide here.
You’ll gather an idea of what each routine bather load looks like (1 person or 2 - 30min or an hour etc.)
& what your typical standby fc consumption is. This will eventually allow you to dose properly with out constantly micromanaging the spa.
Example:
When manually chlorinating in my 200ish gal tub I raise fc to about 10ppm after a nice 30/40 minute 2 person soak and this is enough to take care of the current bather waste & get me through the following day’s soak without falling below minimum. Then I just repeat the process or let it ride if I am not using the tub.
I know from my testing that slam fc level will get me through a week of standby.
I know that if I am above 6ppm at the start I can go an hour alone or 30/40 min with a guest before needing more fc. My frequent testing in the beginning is how I know.
Every tub & bather load is different so you must find what works for your situation.
When the teens come over all bets are off lol & I make them get out after 30 minutes & add more chlorine before letting them get back in.
A bucket of teenagers will chew through slam level fc quickly!
*The key is never allow fc to fall below minimum for your cya at any time lest nasties will grow. Nobody wants that

 

[phonedave]

For heavy stuff (1# or more) I used to use my people scale before I had a food/postal scale and just weigh myself with & without the chem. Now I just about can eyeball it upon startup. I have a big measuring cup that gets used for the salt & boric acid. There’s really not that much dry stuff to measure aside from dichlor occasionally. My main additions in the tub are liquids- bleach & a little Muriatic acid.
The only other dry thing I measure is cya for my pool and it comes in 4# packages usually so I can eyeball 1/4 or 1/2 of the package.

I used to measure dry stuff. I have a kitchen scale that will measure up to a lb.

I rarely use it anymore. My pool gets salt in 40lb increments. I don't use salt in my hot tub. I eyeball CYA for my pool. When i am adding DiChlor to my tub, I go by the capfull (since I measured it once and I know how much it holds)

 

[Mdragger88]

I used to measure dry stuff. I have a kitchen scale that will measure up to a lb.

I rarely use it anymore. My pool gets salt in 40lb increments. I don't use salt in my hot tub. I eyeball CYA for my pool. When i am adding DiChlor to my tub, I go by the capfull (since I measured it once and I know how much it holds)

I did the sugar conversion thing long ago [how much does x amount (tsp/tbsp) of sugar weigh] & it was in line with pool math expectations for dichlor. My tub is too small to use the cap so i use a plastic teaspoon/tablespoon thing.

 

[Cape cruiser]

Thanks Mdragger88 and phonedave ! I just tested and onlt had to add a small amount of dichlor and PH up. Before adding any chems today my TA 70,CH 150, PH 7.3 and CC 0, FC .5, TC .5 . Pool math had me add .1oz PH up and .2 dichlor. I think im getting close now with all of your help. I havent tested CYA yet as only second day of chlorine added. Thanks again , Bret

 

[Mdragger88]

Thanks Mdragger88 and phonedave ! I just tested and onlt had to add a small amount of dichlor and PH up. Before adding any chems today my TA 70,CH 150, PH 7.3 and CC 0, FC .5, TC .5 . Pool math had me add .1oz PH up and .2 dichlor. I think im getting close now with all of your help. I havent tested CYA yet as only second day of chlorine added. Thanks again , Bret

You never want less than 2ppm fc even with low cya.
A residual of 2ppm is to always be maintained.

 

[Cape cruiser]

I thought the same but it only had me add .2 oz of dichlor today. Doesnt that sound like a low amount to add ?

 

[Cape cruiser]

I just checked pool math to see if I had settings wrong. It shows 390 gallons with target of 3ppm FC and it only recommends .2 oz by weight of dichlor.

 

[Mdragger88]

I thought the same but it only had me add .2 oz of dichlor today. Doesnt that sound like a low amount to add ?

It is just a calculator with suggestions for targets.
You can change the targets.