A slight "shock"

Jump to latest Follow Reply
1Sammy said:
There you go, EMF is a completely different can or worms then what the OP is into.
Click to expand...

EMF could possibly lead to the source of the voltage leakage into the ground. Don't knock what you don't understand.

The OP is dealing with a difficult very odd problem which may take very odd methods to find and fix.
 
lol, my friend, i have been dealing with EMF for going on 10 years with probes tied into laptop computers and very expensive software. Have spend many days in classrooms learning to be able to use and understand. I am not a armchair retired google searcher and blabbing about things i do not understand. What i say are things i have done, not things i have read about.
 
1Sammy said:
lol, my friend, i have been dealing with EMF for going on 10 years with probes tied into laptop computers and very expensive software. Have spend many days in classrooms learning to be able to use and understand. I am not a armchair retired google searcher and blabbing about things i do not understand. What i say are things i have done, not things i have read about.
Click to expand...

Do you have any experience using an EMF meter?

If you want to describe why EMF can not find the source of a voltage leakage then go for it.
 
Last edited:
Alright guys, man I swear, this weather so far has killed any progress on any projects I have got going on. I don't know that I have ever seen it this wet.

So I found out a guy that I know used to be a pool construction supervisor at a local pool company. I cannot believe I just found this out. He quit last year and opened his own construction business. Anyway, I called him yesterday and he came over. I explained EVERYTHING to him and the first thing he did was went to his truck and got a long extension cord and meter and threw it in the pool. We immediately started walking around the perimeter of the pool and the house checking voltages everywhere. No electrician that has been over has even brought this up so I at least know this guy is on the same page with stuff I have read here. So I am going to allow him to run with it. Turns out he installed the pool at our neighbor's house.

We found that pretty much anywhere we went within my yard we got 1.5-2v. It's like it was everywhere. We even went over to the neighbor's house and checked because he installed their pool and said he knows their bonding grid is right. So we find the same stray voltage around their yard but when we get within 3ft of the pool, it goes to 0.

So he wants to start cheap and not get into the concrete right out of the box. He said he was going to research polymer wall pools and ask some friends in the business. I had read somewhere within this process that polymer wall pools require an extra bond connection within the light. But he wants to completely remove the pool light and go from there. There are some other things he wants to do differently eventually, but that is where he wants to start.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesW
I am starting to feel like the latest guy is flaking out on me too. He won't respond to my texts and all that.

So the wife and I were talking last night. We are about fed up with this issue and are contemplating having the pool filled in and getting an above ground installed on top with a nice deck around it. We are also afraid of spending the money to have the concrete and all of that redone and the problem still being there. What are your thoughts on this? Any chance that installing an above ground pool on top would allow whatever issue that is going to flow into the above ground pool?? Any suggestions? It hurts my heart to fill it in but I want to get something my family can enjoy instead of completely avoiding the back yard.
 
If you have stray currents in the ground they will still be there with an AGP. Nothing in your current pool is causing the stray currents so changing pools is not going to change the situation in the area. How the current may manifest itself with an AGP is unknowable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesW and Mdragger88
ajw22 said:
If you have stray currents in the ground they will still be there with an AGP. Nothing in your current pool is causing the stray currents so changing pools is not going to change the situation in the area. How the current may manifest itself with an AGP is unknowable.
Click to expand...


I was actually worried about that so I went to a different local pool store talking about this. They talked me out of the above ground for the same reason and said they would just fix the inground. They put me in touch with "supposedly" the number 1 and 2 guy in the state to have them investigate this. He said they would make the power company shut down everyone on the street when they come out because they work for the state insurance department and have the backing to get it done. I'm going to start there and the company put me on the calendar to replace the bonding grid and some other things.

As usual, I'll keep the post updated...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SPman and ajw22
Another update. So I had the above mentioned pool guy come over and he has started working on the issue. There were some cosmetic things we wanted to change during this process as well. So they came over last week and ripped off the old brick coping that was falling apart. We found several bonds on the top of the walls that were broken. So that will be repaired. Then we will make the new bond wire connections. So here is the plan... He is going to replace the coping while attaching the new bond wires and a water bond in the skimmer. He is then going to lay the wire mesh for the new bonding grid on top of the existing concrete. Once that has been tested successfully, he is going to lay 3x3 concrete pavers over the existing concrete and wire mesh that was installed.

Thoughts on this approach??
 

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
Wire mesh is Not put "in" or for your case "on" cement to be part of a Bond system. It is used to keep the cement from shifting when it cracks. The fact that it is used and it is metal it needs to be part of the Bond circuit. So all your mesh will do it sit there and be bonded just because it is there, just like hand rails, coping, etc. Once the bond ( contact point ) from one length / piece of mesh becomes broken, which it will unless welded, over the years, then you have just introduced another problem by having metal around your pool that has no bond. Metal to metal using nuts and bolts, clamps, twisted wire, whatever, WILL in time separate and become in time unattached from the main bond potential.
 
1Sammy said:
Wire mesh is Not put "in" or for your case "on" cement to be part of a Bond system.
Click to expand...

Wire mesh is put in the concrete to create a bonding grid around the pool.

All of the bonded parts in or around the swimming pool must be attached to an equipotential bonding grid.

This grid must extend 3’ beyond the inside surface of the pool under concrete, stone or other paved walking surfaces.

This grid can consist of the following:
Equipotential Bonding Grid.

• Reinforcing Steel. Uncoated reinforcing steel of a concrete pool (poured or sprayed, with painted or plaster coatings) can be used as the equipotential bonding grid.

• Copper Grid. A grid constructed with a minimum of #8 AWG bare solid copper conductors with 12” x 12” spacing.
Pools made of non-conductive materials (fiberglass composite, vinyl lined polymer or other non-conductive materials) do not require an equipotential grid that covers the full contour of the bottom and sides of the pool, however an equipotential grid is still required around the perimeter of the pool extending 3’ beyond the sides of the pool.
EQUIPOTENTIAL BONDING SOLUTIONS FROM ERICO® INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
• ERITECH® Prefabricated Mesh. Convenient, efficient and economical for equipotential bonding grids. Prefabricated mesh is constructed with #8 AWG solid copper conductor with 12” x 12” spacing and is available in 3’ x 100’ rolls and other convenient sizes.

Click to expand...

1Sammy said:
then you have just introduced another problem by having metal around your pool that has no bond.
Click to expand...

Just because you have something that is metal, in my opinion, it does not create a risk if it's not bonded.

For example, if you have a metal handrail and it's not bonded, it's really no different than touching the concrete.

In my opinion, bonding a handrail actually creates a hazard because the electricity from the water can travel through a person to the bond wire.

In the video below, the people get shocked when they touch the handrail.

In my opinion, they would have been safer if the handrail was not bonded.

The electricity was probably getting to the water through the bond wire that was connected to the handrail.

Bonding is required. So, you should follow all code and bond all metal as required by code.

 
1Sammy said:
Wire mesh is Not put "in" or for your case "on" cement to be part of a Bond system. It is used to keep the cement from shifting when it cracks. The fact that it is used and it is metal it needs to be part of the Bond circuit. So all your mesh will do it sit there and be bonded just because it is there, just like hand rails, coping, etc. Once the bond ( contact point ) from one length / piece of mesh becomes broken, which it will unless welded, over the years, then you have just introduced another problem by having metal around your pool that has no bond. Metal to metal using nuts and bolts, clamps, twisted wire, whatever, WILL in time separate and become in time unattached from the main bond potential.
Click to expand...
It will be part of the bonded circuit and welded.
 
They ran the wire and attached it to every wall in the pool. That is where a lot of the bond wires were broken. They used stainless steel hardware. They are then going to attach all of that to the wire mesh they are putting down.
 
One other question. I currently have an older Jandy salt generator. The pool guy is telling me he doesn't like the salt systems and is trying to talk me out of it. The one thing I didn't like was I had to replace the unit one time and had a very hard time finding a unit because it was old. Should I upgrade to a different salt generator while everything is disconnected?
 
Last edited:
Now that it seems the shock issue is resolved, we have been cleaning the pool. We had changed covers the last time we covered it and it used water bags. Well, it came a hail storm a couple months ago and busted them all which allowed the cover to fall in and everything that was on it. Now we have this green sludge everywhere in the deep end. So bad that the robot has to be taken out every 1-2 minutes and cleaned. I feel like I’m getting nowhere. How stupid of an idea would it be to drain all of the water, get in and clean the Crud out of the pool, then refill? The chemicals in the pool are very limited at the moment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SPman

Enjoying this content?

Support TFP with a donation.

Give Support
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread Status
Hello , This thread has been inactive for over 60 days. New postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. For better visibility, consider Starting A New Thread.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply