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Thread: Automation / Timers Questions...

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    Automation / Timers Questions...

    We had our pool installed a few weeks ago.

    Now looking into some form of automation or timers and need some help.

    We have mostly hayward equipment except for the heater (specs in signature below).

    At the moment, I turn on the pump and swcg every morning. Have the VS pump setup to run on V3 at 3000 rpm for an hour then at V1 1200rpm.

    When I need to heat, I go over and turn on the heater and manually adjust.

    If I need to turn on the water fall, I go over, adjust pump for more speed/pressure and manually turn the levers for the waterfall return.

    In the evening, I turn off the sub panel as that's the easiest way to turn it all off. Initially, I was actually removing each plug from the outlet to turn off.

    If want the led lights on, I need to go and turn the panel on, remove the pump, swcg plugs and use the lights.

    What are my options? Automation? Or just timers?

    I will be adding landscape lighting to this setup as well.
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    The least expensive choice is timer(s). Intermatic T10X series timers are inexpensive and reliable. Timer(s) still leave most of the steps you mentioned manual, but they will at least take care of running the pump and SWG at appropriate times, and perhaps turning the lights on at particular times. A more expensive and more powerful system would involve an automation system, preferably a Hayward system that knows how to control the pump speed. An automation system could allow you to control everything with a single remote, but is quite a bit more money.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    The least expensive choice is timer(s). Intermatic T10X series timers are inexpensive and reliable. Timer(s) still leave most of the steps you mentioned manual, but they will at least take care of running the pump and SWG at appropriate times, and perhaps turning the lights on at particular times. A more expensive and more powerful system would involve an automation system, preferably a Hayward system that knows how to control the pump speed. An automation system could allow you to control everything with a single remote, but is quite a bit more money.
    Thx. What kind of cost are we looking at for each option?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    preferably a Hayward system that knows how to control the pump speed.
    Actually, from what I have read, the new Super Pump and Max-flo VS pumps can NOT be controlled very well by Hayward's automation systems. They do not have the same interface as the Eco-pump.

    Seems like the best you can do is run the VS pump as a single speed (On/off) controlled by the automation {maybe, assuming the memory is not lost in the pump when the power is completely shut off} And then the pump controls the speeds. Problem with that is the the Pro Logic can not change the pump speed if desired (like for solar demand).

    I would have to think that eventually these pumps would be controllable by the Pro Logic, but seems like Hayward kind of dropped the ball currently.

    Please correct me if you know of something different.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Intermatic timers are around $60 on the Internet. Automation systems start around $400 and go up rapidly depending on which options/capabilities you want.

    By the by, jblizzle is correct, the SuperPump VS can't have it's speed changed remotely. My mistake.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Intermatic timers are around $60 on the Internet. Automation systems start around $400 and go up rapidly depending on which options/capabilities you want.

    By the by, jblizzle is correct, the SuperPump VS can't have it's speed changed remotely. My mistake.
    Thx. Tried searching on google for the timer, but not finding one.. Please can you link me to a store that sells one online?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Reviving this thread.

    Looking to get a timer or automation.

    Here is what I need to have controlled (just realized that when the forum got updated, my sig got lost):

    1. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter - No power needed
    2. Hayward 1hp Super Pump - Variable Speed @ 220v
    3. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu, Electronic & Digital Natural Gas Heater - 120v
    4. AquaRite Salt Chlorine Generating System - - 120v ( but can be chnaged to work on 220v I think)
    5. Aqualamp Lighting System (2 x LED) w/ remote
    6. Landscape Lighting

    What should I get? Timers? Automation? Thanks!!

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaf77 View Post
    Reviving this thread.

    Looking to get a timer or automation.

    Here is what I need to have controlled (just realized that when the forum got updated, my sig got lost):

    1. Hayward S244T2 24” Sand Filter - No power needed
    2. Hayward 1hp Super Pump - Variable Speed @ 220v
    3. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu, Electronic & Digital Natural Gas Heater - 120v
    4. AquaRite Salt Chlorine Generating System - - 120v ( but can be chnaged to work on 220v I think)
    5. Aqualamp Lighting System (2 x LED) w/ remote
    6. Landscape Lighting

    What should I get? Timers? Automation? Thanks!!

    The biggest factors in making this decision are how much are you willing to spend, and how much manual work are you willing to do? These two factors work inverse of one another.

    More work for you= less money, less work for you=more money.

    I went with simple tried and true timers because I don't mind turning valves and such myself.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    The timer(s) vs. automation is mostly a question of budget and expectations.

    An automation system will allow you to turn the two sets of lights on and off on both a schedule and manually all from one or more remotes. You would also get manual over-ride of the pump on/off and remote control of the SWG.
    Switches let you turn the lights on/off from the single (or possibly two) location(s) where the switches are installed.
    Timers let you turn the lights on/off on a schedule.
    Switches and timers could be combined, but the switch would over-ride the timer as long as it was on and not automatically go back to programmed mode the way the automation would.

    For automation the Hayward OnCommand, or E-Command systems are sufficient. You could go fancier if you have other things that might be added to the system later.

    Note: that pump does not allow remote speed control. You can turn it on and off remotely, but the speed(s) get programmed directly on the pump.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcarcrazy View Post
    The biggest factors in making this decision are how much are you willing to spend, and how much manual work are you willing to do? These two factors work inverse of one another.

    More work for you= less money, less work for you=more money.

    I went with simple tried and true timers because I don't mind turning valves and such myself.
    I am ok with either option and would like to understand each to make a decision. In your case, what timers did you get? Do you get one timer for all? Or individual ones?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion View Post
    The timer(s) vs. automation is mostly a question of budget and expectations.

    An automation system will allow you to turn the two sets of lights on and off on both a schedule and manually all from one or more remotes. You would also get manual over-ride of the pump on/off and remote control of the SWG.
    Switches let you turn the lights on/off from the single (or possibly two) location(s) where the switches are installed.
    Timers let you turn the lights on/off on a schedule.
    Switches and timers could be combined, but the switch would over-ride the timer as long as it was on and not automatically go back to programmed mode the way the automation would.

    For automation the Hayward OnCommand, or E-Command systems are sufficient. You could go fancier if you have other things that might be added to the system later.

    Note: that pump does not allow remote speed control. You can turn it on and off remotely, but the speed(s) get programmed directly on the pump.
    Thanks! Yes, I have taken not of the issue with the VS speed.

    My main issue at the moment is that I try to run the pumps at night during the week and during the day on weekends (due to electricity rates).

    I have to go out at night, turn it on and then turn it off before 7am at the pad.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW - I should add that my valves for the returns and the waterfall are manual ones.. So I guess those would need to be changed if I went automated?
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Once you buy enough timers to do everything you will be approaching the cost of an OnCommand or Ecommand base system. A quick google search revealed an OnCommand base system with 2 valve actuators (you don't replace the valves themselves, you just bolt on the actuators) for $479.

    I can speak to the Intermatic PE653RC automation, It looks like the Hayward is very similar and at a better price point. Were it me I would do a bunch of research on the OnCommand / E-Command.

    Take a hard look at the total devices you want to control. I think the most cost effective solution will be an OnCommand for the Pool and a timer for lights if you hit the max number of devices for the oncommand.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Typically you would leave the return valves manual and setup the waterfall to be controlled by the automation system. You could do this another way if you want, as the automation system can control two valves even in the base configuration.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    In my case I went with Intermatic Timers. It's a very basic unit with freeze protection. see attached image. In all honesty I don't know what all the electrcians wired to the timers, but I am of the opinion it was just the pump/heater.




    You have options with Automation, you don't have to automate everything...but you can. Many of the Jandy style valves at least are built with the possibility of adding actuators later.
    IG gunite/plaster pool/spa Started 1/17/14, Plastered 5/16/14
    Size: 12'-21'x39' free form, depth ranging from 4' to 7, attached 6 person spa with spillover.
    Equipment: Whisperflo 2hp pump, Pentair 30" sand filter, Pentair Mastertemp 400k BTU heater, 1hp Whisperflo for waterfalls, and a blower for spa floor

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    All I was looking to automate was my pump. I went with one of these: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Not sure if that timer is good for two speed pumps (I still have an older single speed). Outdoor enclosure is a must if the timer is going to be outside. That's the timer with the enclosure. If you want expandability, your should get a box similar to mrcarcrazy's photo.
    Joel - TFP Moderator - Minnesota - **Become a TFP Supporter!** Helpful Links: ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry - SLAM Procedure - Chlorine/CYA Chart
    40x20 Pool: 32K Gallons * Vinyl * Bleach Chlorination * Hayward S270T Sand Filter * Pentair SuperFlo 1 HP * Teledyne/Laars Heater * AquaVac Tigershark * TF-100 w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    I went with this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-PE6...ywords=pe653rc

    Hindsight being 20/20 I should have gone with this:
    http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-PE2...ywords=pe653rc

    Note that the actuators are on the same circuit ... they cannot be run independently. For a waterfall setup you should be fine.

    The Hayward OnCommand is still probably the best bet ... I just don't know that much about it.
    TFP Moderator Chris V. ~16K Pool & Spa, 48NSF DE, IG Plaster Circa 2000, Intermatic PE653, Challenger pump with a 2 speed B2984, 20gal stenner chlorine injection, Houston, TX
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Pics of my current setup and valves. I don't think we can add actuators to these. I assume the valves need to be changed?





    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    Yes, the metal valves would have the be changed to use actuators.

    The valve in front of the pump is the kind that the actuators are designed to control.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    If I only want to control the pump, SWCG, and maybe landscape lighting - what should I go with? Timers or automation?

    I don't need fancy remotes, etc. I am ok with walking back and forth. My main concerns are just being able to turn on and off at certain times to save on electricity based on time of use rates.
    16'x34' Inground Vinyl Pool. 65,500L. Hayward S244T2 24 Sand Filter. Hayward 1hp Super Pump. Raypak PR266 EN 266,000 btu,. AquaRite SWCG. Aqualamp LED 2 w/ remote

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    The SWG generally controls itself and is hooked to the timer that controls the pump. Landscaping lighting could be controlled by its own separate timer. It really does not sound like you need any automation system.

    The only issue is wanting to run at different times different days of the week, and I am not sure which if any automation systems allow that. Obviously simple mechanical timers will not work for this.

    EDIT: Well actually just checked that my "basic" Hayward P4 does have the option of different schedules on weekdays vs weekends.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Automation / Timers Questions...

    I'm going to install an a Intellitouch system on my pool within the next month, I will let you know how it goes

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