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Thread: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

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    Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    I have a self priming pool, but for last couple of months I have to prime the pool everyday
    I am a first time home buyer with a pool, so please help me out. please see attached pics of my pool.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    That would indicate that you have a leak somewhere in your piping that is letting air in. Since you dont complain of water spraying everywhere, I would think it would be on the suction side of the pump. Check your pump basket lid gasket, and make sure its in good condition, and if thats not it, suspect a joint in the plumbing.

    Do you constantly have air in the basket??
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    When I turn off the pool, then I see some water sprayed form skimmer basket, BUT why do I have to prime the Pump basket, If I only prime the skimmer basket then pool doesn't work.
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    I opened the Lid now, and see some pictures, I actually don't know if there is anything wrong with it ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    The water coming back into the skimmer basket is from the piping to the pad. Back pressure from the pump or filter (being higher than the water level in the pool) is forcing water back to the pool. You have an air leak somewhere in your piping.

    Imagine taking a long piece of clear tubing and filling it with water. Place both ends into a bowl of water. Lift the length of tubing above the level of the water, keeping the ends IN the water. The water stays in the tubing, even though it is above the level of the water and there is pressure from gravity to pull it back down into the bowl. There is no source of air into the tubing to let the water go back down into the bowl. Now imagine putting a hole in the tubing somewhere above the level of the bowl. The air will rush into the tubing and let the water run back into the bowl. There is now air in the tube.

    The tube is your plumbing and the bowl is your pool. The hole in the tubing is your air leak. Finding it is the challenge.

    The most likely places are PVC joints, the pump basket lid gasket, and the unions at the filter. Any part that unscrews and uses a gasket, make sure the gasket is in good shape, and lube it well with pool lube.

    A lot of gasket joints hold well under pressure (pump running) but not so well under vacuum (pump not running) on the pressure side (the filter, and the tablet feeder I see in your pics).

    On the vacuum side, it could be the pump strainer basket lid (very common source of air leaks) or gasket.

    Check those to rule them out.

    I asked about air in the pump strainer basket during operation to see if you had a leak that was sucking air during operation, which would indicate a piping joint that needed replacement or attention.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Are you missing your pump basket filter? It's the last chance to catch anything that may damage the impeller.

    Lershac has given you great advice.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Yeah I dont actually see your basket in your pump basket housing. Do you have one? You really should have one, as it will save you from damaging your pump impeller if a rock or something hard gets into your suction line. It will also prevent leaves from clogging up your filter.

    You can find them relatively cheap online or even at your local pool store. Hayward is a big brand name and it should be relatively easy to find. Write down your model number off the pump to locate it. If you can post it here I would be happy to give you a link to purchase one.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    I actually have a separate basket i.e. Leaf vacum, if you look at my first post, first pic. you will see a basket just before pump. I hope that's what you were looking for , rite ?
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    No, its something that goes into that space the lid covers on the pump.

    This is probably NOT what you need but will give you an idea:

    http://www.amazon.com/Hayward-SPX4000M- ... 801&sr=8-1

    Your pump input comes straight out of the ground. Unless that tall green thing is connected underground to that pipe, I dont think its on the suction side. It may be though. You should still have a pump strainer basket, but its not a "STOP THE PUMP RIGHT NOW!!!!" kind of issue.

    Were I you, I would have a close look at the pump strainer lid o-ring, make sure its still rubbery and supple, with no cracks or rot, and lube the heck out of it and put it back on.

    If that tall green thing (leaf catcher?) is connected to the suction side, then it is another possible source of leak, pull its lid and check that o-ring and the general condition of the sealing surfaces.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Yes that tall green thing is connected to pump under ground, now after carefully looking at the pool today morning, I found a leak from the Outlet to pump to the filter, please see the picture, Now I need your help to fix it. I lubricated that connection with a Lesieley pool O-ring lubricant, but still there is a leak.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Inspect the union o-ring, sometimes they crack and need to be replaced. Also, those unions can be really hard tighten down so you may need to use a pipe wrench.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Inspect the union o-ring, sometimes they crack and need to be replaced. Also, those unions can be really hard tighten down so you may need to use a pipe wrench.
    I Opened the union, but I do not see O -ring anywhere ? Go back a little bit, I opened this union, now whats next Do I have to open the joint too ? where shall I expect the O-ring ?
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Yes, take apart the union from the pump, the o-ring will be on the inside port of the pump or the other side of the union. It can stick to either side. Inspect the entire o-ring for any cracks or splits.

    This diagram may help you: http://www.poolcenter.com/parts_pumps_h ... _rated.htm
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Yes, take apart the union from the pump, the o-ring will be on the inside port of the pump or the other side of the union. It can stick to either side. Inspect the entire o-ring for any cracks or splits.

    This diagram may help you: http://www.poolcenter.com/parts_pumps_h ... _rated.htm
    Thanks, I understand now, now one more question, In the link that you send, I need the part number which is missing in this diagram i.e. next to No.4 ..
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Good luck with the above, all great advise. Just to add, most pumps have a drain plug at the bottom. These can erode in time, or loosen. Check it is tight. Also, if you suspect a leak on the suction side, run a water hose on the pump lid, incoming joint, & pvc pipework. If there is an air leak, water will be sucked instead of air, and air in the pump basket will dissappear. That isolates the cause.

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyrockpools
    Good luck with the above, all great advise. Just to add, most pumps have a drain plug at the bottom. These can erode in time, or loosen. Check it is tight. Also, if you suspect a leak on the suction side, run a water hose on the pump lid, incoming joint, & pvc pipework. If there is an air leak, water will be sucked instead of air, and air in the pump basket will dissappear. That isolates the cause.
    You mean 19 & 20 in the diagram, thanks
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    One more thing, Is silicon spray lubricant ok for lubrication ? I am running out of lessley lubricant tube now
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Silicone plumber grease works well also. It a few bucks at Lowes or Home Depot.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboysam
    Thanks, I understand now, now one more question, In the link that you send, I need the part number which is missing in this diagram i.e. next to No.4 ..
    Both unions use the same part#s which is why they only label the suction side union. #1 is the pipe union kit, and #2 is the o-ring. Scroll down and you will see the part#s which depend on when you got the pump. Did you discover a problem with the o-ring?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Prime the pump everytime(pics attached)

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Quote Originally Posted by fatboysam
    Thanks, I understand now, now one more question, In the link that you send, I need the part number which is missing in this diagram i.e. next to No.4 ..
    Both unions use the same part#s which is why they only label the suction side union. #1 is the pipe union kit, and #2 is the o-ring. Scroll down and you will see the part#s which depend on when you got the pump. Did you discover a problem with the o-ring?
    Ok Thanks, Here is what I did yesterday,

    1. Drained the filter and cleaned the cartridges.
    2. drained the pool pump using the two drain valves in the pump
    3. Lubricated each and every O-ring/Thread etc very thoroughly
    4. Filled the Pump and Leaf vaccum with water.
    5. Switched on the Pump and it lost the prime in 30 seconds.
    6. Gave up for yesterday

    Now, since I drained the entire pool, do you think I need to put more water before I start the pump. I am having tough time, but I wont give up, because all of you are with me in this.
    11000 Gallons, Cartridge Filter, UG, Plaster, Shasta pool, filter model Hayward C4030, Pump Motor Emerson 1-1/2HP Full Rated EB2977T, Pump model Northstar SP4010NS

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