38,000 Gallon Pool in AZ - hard to keep balanced

[Wamble]

I am relatively new to the TFP methodology. Last summer we had a pool person who "took care" of everything and the pool generally stayed crystal clear. We later learned he was just adding chlorine and shock to keep things balanced with no regard for numbers. When we took it back over the pool was clear but CYA was about 200 and Chlorine was 15-18. We drained about half and got CYA back to 40 or so.
Now the hard part is keeping things balanced with liquid chlorine to avoid adding CYA. I subscribed to the app which helps me with the chemicals and math, but I'd love input on what I'm supposed to do.
I feel like for the cost it'd be cheaper to use tablets and let CYA go up and drain as needed. Otherwise I would need at least one gallon of liquid chlorine every 2 days. I also do not know the right way to "shock" the pool weekly without spiking CYA.
Sorry for the run on paragraph - but I'm a little bit at a loss for how to do this myself the right way. Thank you for any input.

 

[Av8te]

I am relatively new to the TFP methodology. Last summer we had a pool person who "took care" of everything and the pool generally stayed crystal clear. We later learned he was just adding chlorine and shock to keep things balanced with no regard for numbers. When we took it back over the pool was clear but CYA was about 200 and Chlorine was 15-18. We drained about half and got CYA back to 40 or so.
Now the hard part is keeping things balanced with liquid chlorine to avoid adding CYA. I subscribed to the app which helps me with the chemicals and math, but I'd love input on what I'm supposed to do.
I feel like for the cost it'd be cheaper to use tablets and let CYA go up and drain as needed. Otherwise I would need at least one gallon of liquid chlorine every 2 days. I also do not know the right way to "shock" the pool weekly without spiking CYA.
Sorry for the run on paragraph - but I'm a little bit at a loss for how to do this myself the right way. Thank you for any input.

You can shock without moving your cya up with either calhypo or liquid chlorine. If your calcium gets above about 450 I would just use liquid chlorine. A salt cell may be an option too depending on what automation you currently have and whether you want to spend the money to get that installed. As a side note, you shouldn’t have to shock very often if you keep your chlorine levels in check.

 

[mknauss]

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

 

[Rancho Cost-a-Lotta]

Welcome! That is a big pool to take care of in the Arizona sun, but not impossible. Most important is getting your CYA level where it needs to be to protect FC from the sun. Still, one gallon of chlorine per day is likely the minimum that your pool will require during swim season. Can you post a full set of test results?

 

[Newdude]

When we took it back over the pool was clear but CYA was about 200 and Chlorine was 15-18. We drained about half and got CYA back to 40 or so.

Either the math is wrong, or the testing.

Water exchanges are a proportionate reduction for CYA. A half drain would lower you to 100, if the testing was to be trusted.

So I have to ask, how are you testing ?

Otherwise I would need at least one gallon of liquid chlorine every 2 days.

(Please don't shoot the messenger )

A gallon every 2 days is right now. Each gallon of 10% chlorine gets you 2.6 ppm. When it gets nuclear by you, you'll see 4 or even 5ppm lost, daily. So plan on 2 gallons a day.

 

[JoyfulNoise]

Arizona can mean a lot of different things in terms of climate - a pool in Flagstaff is going to operated differently from a pool in Yuma. Where exactly are you in Arizona??

Also, what is your pool size in gallons? I don't see that in your signature.

Are you testing by using your own test kit or are you going by pool store results? (Answer - it should be on your own as pool store testing is simply not good enough ...)

 

[Newdude]

Also, what is your pool size in gallons? I don't see that in your signature

It's in the title





(But I agree that it usually won't be and belongs in the sig)

 

[Jimrahbe]

I also do not know the right way to "shock" the pool weekly without spiking CYA.

W,

If you keep your FC and CYA at the proper relationship per this chart...

FC/CYA Levels

You should never have to add any pool store shock on a weekly, or routine basis...

Thanks,

Jim R.

 

[Wamble]

You can shock without moving your cya up with either calhypo or liquid chlorine. If your calcium gets above about 450 I would just use liquid chlorine. A salt cell may be an option too depending on what automation you currently have and whether you want to spend the money to get that installed. As a side note, you shouldn’t have to shock very often if you keep your chlorine levels in check.

I will have to try calhypo, but would its cost be similar to trying to shock with liquid chlorine? I just know that with liquid chlorine being $24/week it sure adds up quick, and I would imagine as it gets hotter this could double. I am very glad to hear I shouldn't have to shock much if I keep my chlorine levels in check - which I have not done because I have been too cheap to add liquid chlorine as often as I should have.

 

[Wamble]

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest you read through Pool Care Basics - Trouble Free Pool and even look at a few of our videos TFP-TV - Trouble Free Pool

Thank you. I have done that. My concern is more about how to use less chemicals that contain CYA while keeping my costs reasonable. I know how to maintain it - but this is my first year trying to avoid just throwing Trichlor tabs and Shock at it. I use the app and have subscribed - so when I do my tests I enter the info in there and follow the recs - but again in this heat and this size pool the amount of liquid chlorine seems unsustainable.

 

[Wamble]

Welcome! That is a big pool to take care of in the Arizona sun, but not impossible. Most important is getting your CYA level where it needs to be to protect FC from the sun. Still, one gallon of chlorine per day is likely the minimum that your pool will require during swim season. Can you post a full set of test results?

Thank you for your reply. Yes it will be a lot to take care of in the hottest point of summer. If it gets to 1 gallon of chlorine a day that'd be $50+ a week to maintain. Most recent test: Free Chlorine 3, pH 7.5, Alkalinitiy 100, Calcium Hardness 230, CYA 45.

 

[Wamble]

Either the math is wrong, or the testing.

Water exchanges are a proportionate reduction for CYA. A half drain would lower you to 100, if the testing was to be trusted.

So I have to ask, how are you testing ?




(Please don't shoot the messenger )

A gallon every 2 days is right now. Each gallon of 10% chlorine gets you 2.6 ppm. When it gets nuclear by you, you'll see 4 or even 5ppm lost, daily. So plan on 2 gallons a day.

My old testing may have been wrong. I have tried test strips, also have a test kit, and most recently have been trying the at home accublue test (from Leslies which I know is frowned upon). I am trying the accublue in hopes that it will be accurate and still allow me to decide how to approach it on my own.
I definitely won't shoot the messenger - but I'd love it if the messenger could give me tips on a more financially reasonable plan And yea at 2 gallons a day that's $140 in liquid chlorine a week just to make it through the summer. I'd rather let CYA rise and drain water as needed... But as I mentioned I'd love tips to keep a balance somewhere between the two methods.

 

[Wamble]

Arizona can mean a lot of different things in terms of climate - a pool in Flagstaff is going to operated differently from a pool in Yuma. Where exactly are you in Arizona??

Also, what is your pool size in gallons? I don't see that in your signature.

Are you testing by using your own test kit or are you going by pool store results? (Answer - it should be on your own as pool store testing is simply not good enough ...)

I'm in the phoenix area - so it's hot and just getting hotter. Testing is right now with strips and i'm also testing the accublue home kit.

 

[Wamble]

W,

If you keep your FC and CYA at the proper relationship per this chart...

FC/CYA Levels

You should never have to add any pool store shock on a weekly, or routine basis...

Thanks,

Jim R.

Thank you for this. I would love to stay ahead of it and avoid needing to shock. I think my issue is I have been trying to be frugal and by doing so did not add enough liquid chlorine... and by doing so got my CYA and FC balance out of whack.

 

[proavia]

If you manage your pool according to TFP methods, there is no need to shock.
We can help you keep your pool sanitary ina frugal way. But you will need to spend a little money to save money.

Do you have a spa and/or automation? If so, add it to your signature.

Test strips are basically inaccurate and worthless.
The accublue comes with a $50/month fee and isn't all that accurate either - no matter what Leslies may say.

In the PHX area, you don't want to use cal-hypo either, as it will substantially increase the calcium level. With our hard water, you don't need any extra calcium.

Get one of the recommended test kits - Test Kits Compared
The TF-Pro or TF-Pro Salt would suit your needs well.
The cost is less than 3-4 months of the accublue cost - and the reagents will usually last at least a year, maybe two.
Test kit refills will cost about $50-$60 per year.
Also, use PoolMath for logging your test results. You can use the freeware version or better yet, the payware version for $8 per year for saving all logging.

Consider adding a SWG for chlorine. We recommemd a SWG that is 2 times the pool volume. The largest consumer SWG are rated for a 60k gallon pool.For a 38k pool volume, a 60k SWG would work if run at about 60%-70% for 24 hours per day, or 100% for 16-18 hours per day in summer. The initial cost might seem high, but you are paying for the chlorine up front.

Let me ping @Newdude - he can provide a comparison on liquid chlorine versus SWG from a cost standpoint.

 

[Wamble]

If you manage your pool according to TFP methods, there is no need to shock.
We can help you keep your pool sanitary ina frugal way. But you will need to spend a little money to save money.

Do you have a spa and/or automation? If so, add it to your signature.

Test strips are basically inaccurate and worthless.
The accublue comes with a $50/month fee and isn't all that accurate either - no matter what Leslies may say.

In the PHX area, you don't want to use cal-hypo either, as it will substantially increase the calcium level. With our hard water, you don't need any extra calcium.

Get one of the recommended test kits - Test Kits Compared
The TF-Pro or TF-Pro Salt would suit your needs well.
The cost is less than 3-4 months of the accublue cost - and the reagents will usually last at least a year, maybe two.
Test kit refills will cost about $50-$60 per year.
Also, use PoolMath for logging your test results. You can use the freeware version or better yet, the payware version for $8 per year for saving all logging.

Consider adding a SWG for chlorine. We recommemd a SWG that is 2 times the pool volume. The largest consumer SWG are rated for a 60k gallon pool.For a 38k pool volume, a 60k SWG would work if run at about 60%-70% for 24 hours per day, or 100% for 16-18 hours per day in summer. The initial cost might seem high, but you are paying for the chlorine up front.

Let me ping @Newdude - he can provide a comparison on liquid chlorine versus SWG from a cost standpoint.

Thank you for your reply. I definitely would love to get a a SWG and I appreciate you pinging Newdude. I'd love to see what my options are moving forward to have this be more efficient and as close as possible to TFT method (within financial reason).

Yea my accublue has been ok - but I have had some inconsistencies. The thing I really like about it is that it is simple and gives me solid numbers to work with. I do also have an unopened K-2105 - maybe that would be a decent test to get familiar with.

I added my automation to my signature... I forgot to add that we do have a spa as well.

I'd love the further added input to keep moving in the right direction. Thank you!

 

[Newdude]

Ok so you need a 60k unit, which narrows it down to Pentair and Circupool. Pentair will slide right into your automation controls nicely so let's go with that for now.

The IC60 / controller bundle is $2030 out the door today and will produce 6.3 ppm in 24 hours, or 2625 lifetime FC. The last reports I recall for install costs with a pro were $1300 so let's say $3300 for a full install. That's $1.26 per FC, which is terrible due to the pool volume, but bleach will be proportionately terrible, FC to FC.

1 gallon of 10% gets you 2.6 FC.

$4 jug = $1.53 per FC
$5 jug = $1.92 per FC
$6 jug = $2.30 per FC. (Walmart is $6.12)
$7 jug = $2.68 per FC.
$8+ jug = just don't.


1 gallon of 12.5 % gets you 3.3 FC

$4 jug = $1.21 per FC. *** finally found 1 cheaper***
$5 jug = $1.51 per FC
$6 jug = $1.82 per FC
$7 jug = $2.12 per FC.

The IC60 will produce 1009 jugs worth of 10%, or 795 jugs worth of 12.5%.

Only one combo above was $0.05 cheaper with LC, the elusive $4 / 12.5%. If you have access to that, I can afford to pay you to mail me some at that price. But jokes aside, would you not lug jugs for a nickel each ?

And that's only for the first cell including the professional install and $488 cell controller. Replacement cells are $1532 out the door, still producing 2625 lifetime FC but at ***58 cents per FC.**** That's where you clean up. It took me 10 minutes tops to leave the couch, get the cell from the porch, go install it, throw out the cardboard in the driveway, and be back on the couch. It's as plug and play as it gets.

*** Circupool has better #s. They claim to make 50% more FC and for 50% longer, which is likely inflated, but at worst they are as good as Pentair, for less money.

 

[proavia]

So, with an Intellicenter, you can add an IC60 SWG. I think you would also need the SWG power supply as well.

The IC60 would work better with your automation. You’d be able to control it from your phone as well. The Circupool RJ60+ would require manual adjustment at the pad.

 

[Newdude]

The Circupool RJ60+ would require manual adjustment at the pad.

With no spa (listed), 2 to 6 week adjustments on the SWG are not a deal breaker.

Everyone should be checking the equipment once a week no matter what, and pressing *1* button on the SWG every couple of weekly checks is a joke.

Now with a spa that needs frequent dialing down of the SWG before use, that's another story.

 

[Wamble]

With no spa (listed), 2 to 6 week adjustments on the SWG are not a deal breaker.

Everyone should be checking the equipment once a week no matter what, and pressing *1* button on the SWG every couple of weekly checks is a joke.

Now with a spa that needs frequent dialing down of the SWG before use, that's another story.

So I do have a spa. Does that complicate the SWG if I go with the pentair?

Also I currently get my 12.5% chlorine for 7.75/gallon and have not found a better source for it in my area. So it's pretty expensive.