ELECTRICAL PROBLEM?

[Ikaika1402]

I have a 12.5K gallon tile pool with an Intelliflo VS 3050 (230VAC) hooked up to a NEW Intermatic T104 timer. Sometimes the timer turns the pump on, sometimes not. When I check the timer motor, its functioning properly. If I turn the power off at the circuit breaker, and remove the wires at the timer, and reinstall, then reactivate the circuit breaker, the timer activates the pump. I already replaced the 240VAC Circuit breaker at the sub box, and I had a GE Timer that gave me the same problem, so I assumed it was the timer. Could this be a problem at the electronics board on the pump? The only thing I haven't replaced is the circuit breaker at the main board.

Also, any idea what the most electrically efficient speed/time to run at? My pool is kidney shaped, a skimmer, drain, three return lines, an attached spa with three returns and a drain, and "wedding cake" stairs. I've tried running at about 1000 RPM for 10 hours, but algae begins to form, perhaps from not enough flow, so I now run at default speed 2 (1500 RPM) for the same.

Many thanks!

 

[lbridges]

Probably not the problem, but...Have you reviewed how the pump is wired? The T-104 is a double pole device, like the VS-3050 requires, but you need to insure both poles are being used. The wiring diagram is available online if you didn't get a copy - http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/files ... glish.ashx Notice how on the diagram terminals 2 and 4 in the diagram go to the load (VS-3050). My concern is that one of the power leads might be wired directly to the pump and not being switched by the timer. The Pentair VS manual states: NOTE: When the pump is started and stopped by removing power with a relay or timer, a two-pole device should be used to apply and remove power to both POWER LINE TERMINALS.

As to pump speed, I have run my VS-3050 at 1000RPM for 10 hours (direct, all-day Florida sun) in the summer on a 16k gallon pool. I have always believed algae formation is more a function of the amount of sanitizer given anywhere near a 1X water turnover. You don't mention if you know your flow rates, but with my plumbing, 1500rpm would pump over more than 2.5X.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Welcome to TFP.

I suspect lbridges is correct about the wiring. Let us know what you find.

As for your algae problem, I suspect he's right about that too. Not enough sanitizer. Give us a full set of test results and how yo got them.
pH
FC
CC
TA
CH
CYA
That'll let us know what you need to do.

 

[galleymore]

I just noticed this post and I have a little query with the Inteliflo / T104 scenario that I hope you guys can clarify for me?

The pump needs to be connected to a source of power permantly, with the T104 timer, the power is cut off when the lug hits the designated time?
When the ON lug connects some hours later, the pump does not start up but says ALARM?

How can I connects it permantly, and have it go into "stand by" mode when the timer dictates??

I'm probably missing something simple here...but TFP has never let me down before!!

Thanks again

 

[Ikaika1402]

Thanks for your comments...a little more history. Before I remodeled to tile, I had a plaster pool that I used to chlorinate with 3.5 inch tabs that I used to buy from Costco, and a Hayward Chlorinator. I never had problems with high CYA, because I live in Hawaii, land of eternal sunshine. I also had a old STA-RITE DE Filter, the beige one with the stainless steel vessel, which I loved! My water was sparkly clear, and I didn't mind backwashing and tearing down the filter every 3 or 4 months, which is probably how I got rid of the excess CYA. After awhile, the multi port valve at the bottom failed, and the pool supply guy recommended a HAYWARD S244T Sand Filter, and from then on, it was downhill.
The high CYA from the tabs began to cause problems. After the tile remodel, I lurked awhile on this forum, and switched to the VS-3050. I played around with the pump speeds, trying to stay around Default Speed 1 (750 rpm) and Speed 2 (1500 rpm), but I noted algae developing at the corners of the stairs, which is probably a flow problem. I ran my FC as high as 20 to address the algae. I've recently dumped 95% of my water, and "started all over", using 5 tabs only as a startup, and will now try to use liquid bleach exclusively...so my numbers now are:

FC 5.0
T/A 80
Ph 7.5
CH 220
CYA <30
So now, I need to find an appropriate speed, and solve my electrical problem. lbridges and Bama Rambler, I double checked my wiring, and its correct...Terminals 1 & 3 are the line, and 2 & 4 are load, and green to the ground. I replaced the breaker at the sub-panel outside the house, and I also notice the timer motor IS running. But at times, the timer trips (since the timer motor is working), but the pump doesn't start. If I cut the power at the sub-panel, and remove one of the load wires from the timer, and then re-connect, and then turn the sub-panel back on, the pump runs. Again, thanks for your comments.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Have you called Pentair and explained your problem? They're probably your best resource.

There was a similar problem on here a while back but I can't find it. If you want to search you might be able to find it.

 

[susa]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but am considering the precisely same setup (don't have the pump yet as I am just finishing the new 240v electric supply box).

Is it this pump:
Pentair Intelliflo Variable Speed Pump VF-3050 3.2kw 3HP 230V

If so, I just downloaded the manual in PDF format and according to the manual I can wire it directly to my 240v supply and use the pump internal software to set On/Off times.

So, if I am reading this correctly, I should not need yet another timer - or do I ?

If I do , would love to hear how the OP solved it.

 

[PoolGuyNJ]

The VS-3050 does not have a timer built in. The VS-SVRS and VF do. Same motor, same energy savings, added features, added complexity.

Scott

 

[Ranger987]

Ikaika, speaking specifically to the algae growth that you reference... A portion of your problem may be related to your sand filter. When you changed from DE to sand, you suffered a diminished quality of filtration and a lower design flow rate for the filter. Your S244 sand filter has a design flow rate of only 65 gpm., which is likely about half of what your DE filter was. Your VF3050 likely maxes out your filter at 1500-2000rpm, so anything in excess of that may not be doing you any good. This estimate is based on the 3hp Whisperflow pump which, at 3450rpm should be moving about 120-130 gpm. When you exceed the design flow rate of a sand filter, you will "channel" the sand, which means that the water velocity actually pushes the sand to the side and creates channels through the sand so the water is not filtered nearly as well. Even operating at the correct flow rate, a sand filter will not remove algae spores from the water like your DE filter did.

 

[Ikaika1402]

Ranger987, I miss my DE Filter...I guess I'll try putting in a small amount of DE as recommended at Pool School into my Sand Filter...I'm running at 1500 RPM now, but will try slowing it to 1250 just to see what happens.