12 May 2024 Equipment and Controls While Thin Set Dries

Srqpoolguy said:

Correct jandy stuff sold online will have no proper warranty. They have really pushed for the offline sales. I am mixed about this. They all do it now to an extent. Pentair has "trade grade". Another option on lights are the spa lectrics. Used to be owned by paramount but the nice thing is they have a system where the light cord is connected using a gasket and screw system. Pulling a new light if needed no longer requires a whole cord pull. Also the lights are fantastic. If you go the globrite route make sure you get a pentair bundle 3 year warranty and you absolutely can use the jandy p series and jandys normal series 12watt white led hydrocool lights with the globrite niche. They fit perfectly. Stay away from haywards 320. Had several bad out the box. I am not a fan of LED pool lighting. Longest LED I've ever seen was 7 years old here in Southwest Florida. Not even kidding. Jandys larger sized watercolor led lights can be replaced internally as well. The 1.5" nichless lights no. There are not to many led lights on market that are repairable once they go bad. Most is the pull a whole new light route. I've pulled over 90 bad globrites since on Monday since 2022. All in a 10 mile radius. No bueno.

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Thanks for the update. Sounds like pool LED lights in some cases have made some incremental progress but not really as much as I had hoped. I think I'll go with 1'5" nicheless fittings and test out CMP-like technology. At least they seem to be focused on the problems marine industry solved several years ago. They went overboard locking out water and eliminated adequate heat transfer in the process. Marine industry has several innovations that seem to work now.

Great info and thanks!

Chris

16 Feb 2024 Update - Finally light at the tunnel and a tiny step forward

My favorite sub for the excavation, forming, and steel work had to back out. His partner didn't like the small single pool job combined with the risk. I have to agree there is some risk to this pool with proximity to the load bearing structures and water table. But this business is a very small community. Pretty soon they know there's this OB project that has a crazy cool pool he wants to build. I now am actually getting references from other craft labor I've met from the house build and the other pool crafts that I've requested. There's a part of big projects where the owner is out for bid on mega contracts worth hundreds of millions and greater where a part of the effort is to "sell the contractor that they should be a very strong competitor". The only have so much money to spend bidding and preparing the bid can easily be $500K or more. So there's a little bit of "reverse marketing" that the owner has to do. I feel like I'm doing a little of that now. Here are my "selling points":

• Project is fully funded and has approved building permit
• This OB builder will demonstrate payment terms that allow them to stay cash flow positive. None of the 30 day net terms they deal with on big builders that often end up net 45+ because of invoice processing problems
• I want their input on construction planning and make sure all the interfaces are understood. For example, if the steel sub hasn't worked with my gunite supplier I get the gunite sub out to the job while steel and forming are in progress... no surprises on either side of the interface. If they can't agree I decide but the decision is always made timely
• This is not an average pool and could be some marketing points to be one of the craft that built it.

So how has this worked out? It's been hard but today I finally got two great subs lined up and under contract. Now that the job seems pretty certain (weather could delay us) I went forward and built the silt fence. Easiest way to do this for me was just rent a tiller and a day laborer. Cost me about $350 total and more important I got it done this morning. Going rate for this would be about $3000 and almost impossible to schedule since the job is so small. I only had about 300' since it's only half the lot.

So there you have it, I've made a tiny amount of actual progress! I'll add photos tomorrow.

But if all goes well I should have at least the pool dug, formed, steel and plumbing in place along with 8-16 yards of #57 rock on the bottom and several pumps in place to keep it ready even if gunite is delayed. That could happen due to a 1 week trip for a medical issue on my wife. Not super serious but needs to be done.

All the subs that will be doing all the "pre-gunite" activities were here at site for final detailed construction planning. To me this is the pool version of advanced work packaging (AWP) we do for big industrial projects. We all have the plans on a big table and sequence out the actual details. It's surprising how much there is. Things like:

• Which side of the house do we bring the skid steer and excavator in on?
• Where are we gonna dump all the rock?
• Where do the diggings go and how do we transfer to the dump truck?
• Forming guy wants to start at the deep end. Can we do this?
• What is the plan for cave ins?
• What's the plan and back up if we get too much intrusion?
• Where and how much power?
• Where are the materials to be delivered?

We got all this and a lot more worked out today. Looks like we mark the pool dig Tuesday and start digging Wednesday. Gunite is on one-day standby. Pretty cool!

Chris

Another note - roll with the punches

So as many know we've had more than a few obstacles to overcome on this project. Started the house right before Covid. Stopped for a year. Wife had serious health problems that lead to back surgery that was ineffective. Now we're finally getting going with the pool and there's a pool building boom in Florida that started during covid and has never stopped. So it makes normal OB access to pool crafts even more difficult. This may sound a little weird but the harder things are the more determined we get and it forces innovation. When something finally does work it really feels even more of an accomplishment. We've got a long way to go on this pool but I remember when this was a heavily wooded lot and now I'm typing this from the office of our house we've lived in for over a year... I'm pretty sure we'll get this pool done soon.

So if you're and OB that's had some setbacks read up on this thread. Somebody said I set the record for number of posts before the build actually started. I'm still pumped about doing this!

Chris

ajw22 said:

Consider flashing with gunite the steel and dig if the gunite is delayed so storms don’t give you caveins that you need to clean up.

My understanding with flashing is the gunite crew comes by at the end of a day and uses the leftover load they have to put a thin coat on the soil and steel to stabilize it.

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Thanks Alan, yep that's already the plan. Spoke with them yesterday... since this is a pretty good sized job they'll come by and do it - all I pay is for the gunite. Not even a trip charge plus they locked in my 2023 pricing. The pool is going to take almost as much gunite as my 6200 sq ft slab!

Chris

So here's an interesting look back

Today after silt fence install yesterday:



25 Dec 2022


Feb 24 2022


March 7 2021

19 Feb 2024 Update

Today is one of those "OK we are marking tomorrow... what have I forgotten?" days. So far here's the plan:

• Meet tomorrow morning with the forming company to lay out the pool.
• This is probably over-kill but I also will have my surveyor mark the rear setback line. Should be able to lay everything out with dimensions from the slab but we only have 1'6" to spare and I don't want to have an issue with the building department after we have concrete in the ground. Couple hundred $ of insurance and "one less worry" is worth it to me.
• Firm up the forming, lights, and plumbing parts materials.
• Arrange entry at guardhouse

We're at the point now that I can start to give out some pricing and such for pool crafts that I'm seeing as promised a while back.. This should help other prospective OB's with their estimate. Here's the first few:

• Permits $700
• Survey ~$1000 (normally ~ $600 but a little more for mine with the added early set-back work)
• Excavation - $4500 for ~1000 sq ft pool w 7' deep end 4.5' shallow plus spa and sun deck. Price includes haul-out for 2 loads. Extra for more but I have a close by disposal site that's zero cost. If you sync up with builders in the area you can often arrange this since they have to pay ~$300 per load for fill delivery. I've also included an extra 8 yd of #57 rock base. It's likely needed to help control water for my pool. Water table is about 3' above bottom.
• Forming - ~$15,000 may come down since I think some items are double counted. This also is over-kill for most pools since it includes 1' wall all around with double-mat rebar. This is much more than normal for a simple pool.
• Gunite - $290/yd is 2024 price for 3000 psi. 4000 psi is 30$ more. My pool is estimated at 85 yards incl 5% waste

I hope this is helpful.
Chris

20 Feb 2024 Construction Begins!

Folks,

Today we began construction. Forming and steel crew set up their lines and marked the site for the excavation tomorrow. Forming will lead the field work until the gunite crew is finished. The building permit is posted out front and I'll file the Notice of Commencement (a typical requirement). This is a big day for us!

Photo's after layout later today.

Chris

PS I will be on site almost the whole time. Occasionally I've heard about code compliance stopping in to check on the building permit. Owner builders often get more scrutiny and I guess that's for good reasons. Just in case I'm not here I make sure the crew knows there's a duplicate permit on the patio table.

Folks,

We have a break waiting for materials so I got photos of the layout. You all haven't "met" Gracie, she ranks right above me in this household. Gracie has carefully scrutinized the plans so her favorite spots in the backyard are undisturbed. See first photo.

Chris


Gracie the Plan Reviewer


From Spa Center on S End


Layout for the dig 2 Basin Edge from South End

Layout for the dig 1 From South End