Still working on these levels, TA low

[tyson171]

Here are my current readings - (11,500 gallon pool, UV Ozone, using liquid chlorine daily, pump running 16 hours a day, off at night, newly plastered with a water feature running 24/7)

Testing myself with a TFT Pro kit -

Chlorine 2.5 (added 3ppm this morning, every morning I need to add 3ppm, should I do this at night instead, I know it needs to be at 4 at least ?)
PH 7.7 (I add 12-15oz of 32% Muratic Acid every other day, keeps my PH in check)
Calcium - 250-275
TA - 40-45
CYA - 30

I feel my TA is low, but everything with the pool is clear, no real issues. I know if i raise me TA, it also raises me PH, which I'm constantly fighting to keep down.

Thoughts?

 

[reggiehammond]

Adjusting pH by MA additions is causing your TA to crash. Stop.
Once TA is in the 50-60 range, your pH would have stopped drifting. Anything in the 7's is fine once TA is stable.

CYA is probably too low causing your FC to drop. Your pool will use a set PPM of FC most days due to UV exposure. Increase CYA to 40, and get FC up to 8-10. Then when you lose the normal 2-4ppm per day, you will never be close to the minimum.

FC/CYA Levels

 

[pjt]

Stop adding MA. Let your pH stabilize in the high 7s, which is perfect. As your TA approaches 50, you need to be careful and judicious with your MA additions so your TA won't decrease below 50.

For the TA test, are you continuing to add drops until there's no further color change?

UV Ozone

The UV will deplete your FC. You get plenty of free UV from the sun.

 

[tyson171]

Adjusting pH by MA additions is causing your TA to crash. Stop.
Once TA is in the 50-60 range, your pH would have stopped drifting. Anything in the 7's is fine once TA is stable.

CYA is probably too low causing your FC to drop. Your pool will use a set PPM of FC most days due to UV exposure. Increase CYA to 40, and get FC up to 8-10. Then when you lose the normal 2-4ppm per day, you will never be close to the minimum.

FC/CYA Levels

My understanding that a new plaster pool will need lots of acid the first few months due to the plaster curing process. If i stop adding acid, my PH will go through the roof. Can i manually add alkalinity plus in the deep end, and then recheck? MY PH will literally go to 8.0 and beyond if i don't add acid. Initially when the pool company was servicing it, they would dump half a gallon in (for the week), on a weekly basis. I'm just adding smaller amounts every other day to maintain it instead of one large dump.

I just need to buffer the TA up first to get things stabilized, I'm just not sure how to do that and keep my PH down (I'm thinking of adding alkalinity plus to get it up to the 50-60 range.)

In regards to CYA at 40 the charts show a FC of 5-7ppm, but I keep reading horror stories of high CYA, so I'm hesitant to use pucks to raise it.

I'm still learning, I'm just asking honest questions, as I'm hearing a lot of conflicting things.

Side note, water has been beautiful and crystal clear so far. I just want to keep it that way.

Best Regards,
Tyson

 

[tyson171]

Stop adding MA. Let your pH stabilize in the high 7s, which is perfect. As your TA approaches 50, you need to be careful and judicious with your MA additions so your TA won't decrease below 50.

For the TA test, are you continuing to add drops until there's no further color change?


The UV will deplete your FC. You get plenty of free UV from the sun.

I probably need to redo my TA test, to ensure there are no further color changes. It actually changed color at drop 4, and turned into a richer red at drop 5. With that, I assumed my TA was a 45, but you know what happens we we assume?

 

[reggiehammond]

Raising TA will cause pH rise, causing necessary acid additions, which will lower TA. Rinse and repeat.
Be careful as low TA is harmful for plaster.
CYA is available in granular form, easily on Amazon. Use PoolMath to calculate how much is needed to raise CYA.

 

[tyson171]

So I actually added acid today (10 oz, and i'm probably around a ph of 7.5, I was around a 7.8 this morning). My plan is - let me add 1.5lbs of alky plus, to raise it 10ppm, give it a couple of hours and retest/see where my ph falls. moving forward, wait until my ph hits 8.0, and just add a little acid to try and maintain it around a 7.6 - 7.8. Maybe this will maintain my TA a bit higher?

 

[pjt]

If i stop adding acid, my PH will go through the roof.

With a TA of 50, your pH rise will be minimal and will likely stop in the high 7s, which is perfectly fine. What's the TA and CH of your fill water?

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Managing pH and Total Alkalinity - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Can i manually add alkalinity plus in the deep end, and then recheck?

Run your TA test again. Keep adding drops until there is no additional color change. If your TA is 50 or above, no action needed. If your TA is 40 or below, add a whisper of baking soda to get your TA to 50. Use PoolMath to assist with the calculations.

So I actually added acid today (8 oz, and i'm probably around a 7.5, I was around a 7.8 this morning.

pH in the high 7s is perfectly fine. Stop adding MA trying to drive your pH down to the mid 7s. That's causing your TA get lower.

My plan is let me add 1.5lbs of alky plus, to raise it 10ppm

Don't until you redo the TA test.

give it a couple of hours and retest/see where my ph falls.

It may take days for your pH to reach its equilibrium point.

wait until my ph hits 8.0, and just add a little acid to try and maintain it around a 7.6 - 7.8

Again, stop adding MA. pH in the high 7s, or even 8.0 is fine. You will end up on a baking soda / muriatic acid seesaw, which is unnecessary and counterproductive.

Manage your CSI and share your PoolMath logs. Fill out your signature when you have a minute.

 

[tyson171]

With a TA of 50, your pH rise will be minimal and will likely stop in the high 7s, which is perfectly fine. What's the TA and CH of your fill water?

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Managing pH and Total Alkalinity - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Run your TA test again. Keep adding drops until there is no additional color change. If your TA is 50 or above, no action needed. If your TA is 40 or below, add a whisper of baking soda to get your TA to 50. Use PoolMath to assist with the calculations.


pH in the high 7s is perfectly fine. Stop adding MA trying to drive your pH down to the mid 7s. That's causing your TA get lower.


Don't until you redo the TA test.


It may take days for your pH to reach its equilibrium point.


Again, stop adding MA. pH in the high 7s, or even 8.0 is fine. You will end up on a baking soda / muriatic acid seesaw, which is unnecessary and counterproductive.

Manage your CSI and share your PoolMath logs. Fill out your signature when you have a minute.

I'll need to test the TA and CH of my fill water, its city water, but I haven't tested it yet.

I just redid the TA test, and at drop 3 it turns red, then goes back to green. Drop 4 it turns red, and at drop 5 its get a little darker red. So would that actually be a TA of 50, or am I in the mid 40s?

I'll stop adding MA and try to stick in the high 7's moving forward.

I'll start adding my test into the PoolMath logs. I do FC and PH test daily, all other test weekly currently, but not logging.

As far as plaster health, the only thing i see is some rust looking stains coming through the plaster (very small, size of a black bean maybe, maybe 5-6 of them sporadically all around the pool, my initial thought was this was dirt just under the plaster surface. One of them is definetly a blade of grass etched in). in a few spots and a few blue speckles. Overall plaster health looks good. (I believe this stains are from dirt under the surface of the plaster maybe or something that fell in and stained it (i keep it really clean, but there is a neighbors pool and birds all the time around the pool).

T

Thanks for all the help, much appreciated!

 

[pjt]

I just redid the TA test, and at drop 3 it turns red, then goes back to green. Drop 4 it turns red, and at drop 5 its get a little darker red. So would that actually be a TA of 50, or am I in the mid 40s?

Keep going until there's no additional color change. Don't interpolate. Your TA is at least 50. Don't add any baking soda.

I'll start adding my test into the PoolMath logs.

Enable CSI tracking and log sharing.

I do FC and PH test daily, all other test weekly currently, but not logging.

Once you get things under control, you can reduce that to 2-3 times a week. CH and CYA testing is much less frequent.

rust looking stains coming through the plaster

Might be fertilizer prills (iron). See if a vitamin C tablet lifts the stain.

 

[Bperry]

I just redid the TA test, and at drop 3 it turns red, then goes back to green. Drop 4 it turns red, and at drop 5 its get a little darker red. So would that actually be a TA of 50, or am I in the mid 40s?!

Make sure you are swirling the sample after each drop. You keep adding drops until the color doesnt change anymore. If the last drop doesnt change the color then dont count it. Like said above, your TA is 50. Theres no “between-ies”.

 

[pjt]

Make sure you are swirling the sample after each drop.

Testing myself with a TFT Pro kit

I'm assuming he's using the stirring device included in the TF-Pro.

 

[Bperry]

I'm assuming he's using the stirring device included in the TF-Pro.

Thats great if so. I assumed if the color is changing back to green it was because there wasnt enough stirring going on.

 

[tyson171]

I'm using the stirring device on the TFT Pro, not hard to just swirl around, but makes it much easier to just concentrate on my drops at that point.

I dumped out the soda ash mixture I was going to dump in, I'll try to keep my ph around 7.8 with a hope to get my TA a hair higher as well.

I kind of struggle figuring out the ph against the color guide, it never seems to match. But i've adjusted the ph enough to know when its around 7.2, and 7.5. Its always that 7.6-8.0 range where its hard to figure out exactly where i need to be. Once it hits the 8's it end up a deep purple.

Maybe I should buy the sample water kit to get a good idea of the exact ph.

Once again thanks for all the help and tips, I feel I'm getting there, just need to iron out a few more things.

 

[pjt]

I'll try to keep my ph around 7.8

7.8 to 8.0 will work. PoolMath will calculate the CSI.

hope to get my TA a hair higher as well

TA of 50 is perfectly fine. TA won't increase unless you add something (baking soda, fill water, etc.).

I kind of struggle figuring out the ph against the color guide, it never seems to match.

A consistent background is key. To get good backlighting, hold the block in front of your computer monitor/tablet/phone with a blank white screen displayed. Also, try holding the block sideways or upside down. Sometimes that helps distinguish colors better. I also use two old hotel keycards to mask off areas and narrow down my decision.