Seeking Fresh Start to Pool Maintenance with FULL Pool Remodel Beginning in Two (2) Days

[NM_Dan]

I found TFP last summer as numerous issues, small and large, led to the scheduling of a complete in-ground pool remodel (remove & replace 1) deck, 2) plaster, 3) plumbing, 4) a portion of our concrete pad, and 5) the natural gas heater). While I've moved ever closer to the structured approach of pool maintenance here on TFP in the 19 years I've owned a pool, this remodel motivated me to fully transition, simplifying chemicals to liquid chlorine, cyanuric acid, muriatic acid, soda ash, baking soda, and calcium chloride.

I've read the majority of the TFP articles on the Pool School page now, some multiple times, as I prepare to care for our new plaster yet have some questions on balancing the water when that time comes that I was hoping to gain member insights on:
Note: My TF-Pro kit has been shipped and is on its way. I plan to use it to stay apprised with what the remodeler tells me is needed re: balancing the newly filled pool. I updated my signature though when previewing this thread I don't see it shown. Here's how it should read: 15K Gal, white quartz plaster (COMING SOON), 20' x 30' kidney shaped pool, two return jets (COMING SOON), 2.2 HP VS Pentair pump, CCP520 cartridge filter, TF-Pro test kit (being shipped now), Raypak 266K BTU NG heater (82% efficiency), **TBD** robot cleaner.

• Q1: Any insights into what to balance first given the interdependencies of the big 5? From what I've read, I would assert CYA, CL, TA, pH, then CH must be balanced in order; however, I've found a few different combinations online and am hoping TFP has reached a general priority order I just haven't run into yet or can explain why (and how) "it depends."
• Q2: Any recommendations from NM members here in Albuquerque for where you buy your chemicals? In my quick search I've found Leslie's as having the best deal on liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, and CYA while Lowe's is best for soda ash and calcium chloride and CostCo is best for baking soda.
• Q3: I've been in contact with Margaret at Marina Pool and Spa about a pool robot and am leaning towards ordering an EVO 614iq Plus in a couple weeks and was wondering if anyone could link me to a thread on this particular cleaner or provide their own experience for consideration?
• Q4: We will soon have two water returns I hope to use to point up towards the surface when needing to increase pH without affecting TA. Having used a pump placed on a stair to shoot water up above the surface of, then back into, the pool in years past generating that reassuring 'fizz' I'm uncertain if pointing one or both jets up towards the surface will be as effective. Perhaps I'm just looking for assurance from members who have had success here and potentially any words of wisdom to share?

 

[PoolStored]

• Q1: Any insights into what to balance first given the interdependencies of the big 5? From what I've read, I would assert CYA, CL, TA, pH, then CH must be balanced in order; however, I've found a few different combinations online and am hoping TFP has reached a general priority order I just haven't run into yet or can explain why (and how) "it depends."

You need to follow the plaster startup the pool builder is using for the first 30 days. What brand of plaster and what startup guide are they using?

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

As for the post 30 days:

Just Filled Your Pool with Water? Here's What To Do Next - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

• Q2: Any recommendations from NM members here in Albuquerque for where you buy your chemicals? In my quick search I've found Leslie's as having the best deal on liquid chlorine, muriatic acid, and CYA while Lowe's is best for soda ash and calcium chloride and CostCo is best for baking soda.

Walmart has pool essentials liquid chlorine in most places for about $6/gal. Muriatic acid from ace, or paint store. I would not use soda ash. Use baking soda if you need to raise TA, and aeration to raise pH.

• Q3: I've been in contact with Margaret at Marina Pool and Spa about a pool robot and am leaning towards ordering an EVO 614iq Plus in a couple weeks and was wondering if anyone could link me to a thread on this particular cleaner or provide their own experience for consideration?

New EVO 614i Robot Pool Cleaner Review

About a month ago I needed a new robot pool cleaner and I contacted Margaret at Marina Pool and Spa. My initial goal was to buy another S200 "style" robot as I have been happy with them so far. Margaret suggested that I might want to look at a new line of robot cleaners that Marina is now...

www.troublefreepool.com

• Q4: We will soon have two water returns I hope to use to point up towards the surface when needing to increase pH without affecting TA. Having used a pump placed on a stair to shoot water up above the surface of, then back into, the pool in years past generating that reassuring 'fizz' I'm uncertain if pointing one or both jets up towards the surface will be as effective. Perhaps I'm just looking for assurance from members who have had success here and potentially any words of wisdom to share?

Putting up returns won't have much effect. Unless you have very high TA, there is no real reason to aerate. ANY pH in the 7s is just fine. Why did you have to aerate in the past?

I would test and post the TA and CH of your fill water.

If you have high TA, here is your huckleberry...

Lowering Total Alkalinity (TA) Quickly with the Acid Aeration Method

Thought I'd make a post that might help others. We've had quite a few members this year with high TA, and I've been typing the same information over and over. I'm going to post this so I can link it to help others. High TA can cause rapid pH rise. High TA is typically caused by high TA fill...

www.troublefreepool.com

To see your signature on a phone, turn it to landscape...they will show up...
Oh, yeah, manners...Welcome to TFP!!!

 

[HermanTX]

It sounds like you are about to plaster (in 2 days)
Here are some helpful tips for
Day of Plaster
* Clean up around the pool area the day before - brush any dirt/mud or debris that could be tracked into the pool during or after plaster
* Verify that the bags of plaster are the proper type and color you selected on morning of plaster.
* Take a sample of the mixture when they are applying it to the pool by pouring some in a small clear plastic cup (good for reference later)
* Do they have all the proper return nozzles and drain covers (type and color) to place after plaster installed
* Have you tested your fill water? Are you filling with softened water or regular tap water or well water?
* Have your hose ready (and clean) as it will be laying in the pool.
* Tie a sock or cloth around the nozzle so it does not sit on the plaster or place a pool noodle over the hose end. See more below.
* Put the end of the hose at the lowest part of the pool to avoid channeling in the new plaster. Also, consider tying a plastic jug to the nozzle such that it will float up as the water rises. Or another method is to take two pool noodles and threaded the hoses through the middle of the noodles which will keep the hose suspended on the water surface and away from the pool walls.
* Ensure you take note (or a picture) of your water meter reading before you start to fill
* Be prepared to take note of your water meter as the pool reaches certain levels, i.e bottom of bottom step, top of bottom step, etc. (it helps in the future to know volume of your pool at certain levels - should you ever have to drain portion of it)
* Plan to set an alarm every 4 hours (or so) to ensure hose is still in pool, no debris blew into pool, etc.
* Do NOT stop the flow of water once the pool starts filling as doing so could cause a ring on the new plaster.
* Take a picture of any chemicals they bring on site that they plan to dump in when they start to add water to pool
* Continue to fill pool to center of water tile or center of skimmer. Take picture of water meter at end of fill as this can be used to calculate a more accurate volume of water for you pool.
* Get clear instructions from PB as what to do the day the pool is full - how often to brush, will the pump be turned on, etc.
* Define with PB when he will be back out to set up water chemistry.

 

[NM_Dan]

You need to follow the plaster startup the pool builder is using for the first 30 days. What brand of plaster and what startup guide are they using?

Plaster Start-Up Guides - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

As for the post 30 days:

Just Filled Your Pool with Water? Here's What To Do Next - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

We chose White Quartz Plaster though I don't have a manufacturer or brand for you (worn and new sample pics here, as well as the plaster start-up instructions attached below). I believe the TFP instructions that you linked me to state to brush twice a day the first week and once a day for the remaining 23 days of that first month. It doesn't appear that more brushing is necessarily a bad thing per their instructions; perhaps they have a hard time getting customers to put in that amount of work? Either way I've started discussions to confirm given the significant value of this investment.

Walmart has pool essentials liquid chlorine in most places for about $6/gal. Muriatic acid from ace, or paint store. I would not use soda ash. Use baking soda if you need to raise TA, and aeration to raise pH.

I appreciate the other potential suppliers for chemicals, thanks! I hadn't though of Walmart or AH originally. In the 19 years we've had the pool, it's been a constant struggle to keep the pH above 7.2 or so. Year before last we were getting into the 7.5 range, which amazed me. Regular use, and teens swimming (and cannon balling) in particular, seems to be the most effective treatment! I'm hopeful the new plaster will help raise the natural average pH.

New EVO 614i Robot Pool Cleaner Review

About a month ago I needed a new robot pool cleaner and I contacted Margaret at Marina Pool and Spa. My initial goal was to buy another S200 "style" robot as I have been happy with them so far. Margaret suggested that I might want to look at a new line of robot cleaners that Marina is now...

www.troublefreepool.com

Appreciate the link - hard to argue with the recommendations from Jim's thorough post and Margaret's comparison table / follow-up emails!

Putting up returns won't have much effect. Unless you have very high TA, there is no real reason to aerate. ANY pH in the 7s is just fine. Why did you have to aerate in the past?

I was afraid turning up the returns wouldn't help with aeration. I'll likely be making an aeration apparatus like you linked for me for use with our sump pump. We've also struggled with high TA (110 to 130) to go along with our low pH...

I would test and post the TA and CH of your fill water.

If you have high TA, here is your huckleberry...

Lowering Total Alkalinity (TA) Quickly with the Acid Aeration Method

Thought I'd make a post that might help others. We've had quite a few members this year with high TA, and I've been typing the same information over and over. I'm going to post this so I can link it to help others. High TA can cause rapid pH rise. High TA is typically caused by high TA fill...

www.troublefreepool.com

To see your signature on a phone, turn it to landscape...they will show up...
Oh, yeah, manners...Welcome to TFP!!!

I'm absolutely looking forward to posting my test results once I receive my new TF-Pro test kit! Again, appreciate the link to the pH/TA lowering and pH aeration increase method. I think I found your post on this last summer but due to numerous factors never implemented it very effectively. Looking forward to this fresh start to improve effectiveness! I feel much better prepared to deal with that historic issue should it persist even with the new plaster.

Now onto updating my checklist with @HermanTX's feedback and asking for clarification where needed. Appreciate the welcome too - I'm hopeful my first few posts can help consolidate advice from the membership for others as I take the leap into complete TFP maintenance this season. Many thanks @PoolStored and @HermanTX!!

 

[PoolStored]

Either way I've started discussions to confirm given the significant value of this investment

Following the startup guide, whichever the pool building is following is very important.

I'm hopeful the new plaster will help raise the natural average pH.

New plaster will cause pH rise for 6-18 months. Some pools have ongoing pH rise even beyond this time period.

We've also struggled with high TA (110 to 130) to go along with our low pH...

This is not really chemically possible when using liquid chlorine or SWG. High TA and low pH cause pH rise. Something else is going on...were you using pucks to chlorinate? Pucks are very acidic and will cause the low pH you have experienced.

We recommend using liquid chlorine or Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWG).

More reading:

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

 

[NM_Dan]

Following the startup guide, whichever the pool building is following is very important.

New plaster will cause pH rise for 6-18 months. Some pools have ongoing pH rise even beyond this time period.

Roger that! I've merged @HermanTX's feedback with the PB's instructions and added prompts for me to clarify or record their instructions throughout the process. We've been delayed due to weather and won't begin until next week so we have more time to prepare, thankfully.

This is not really chemically possible when using liquid chlorine or SWG. High TA and low pH cause pH rise. Something else is going on...were you using pucks to chlorinate? Pucks are very acidic and will cause the low pH you have experienced.

We recommend using liquid chlorine or Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWG).

More reading:

PH TA Relationship - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Yes, we've used pucks and (more recently) granular sodium hypochlorite until last year when I was attempting to transition to LiCl having discovered TFP and the answers to why I'd been struggling with keeping the pool chemically balanced; however, the multitude of issues caused us to keep the pool closed all season and seek quotes for the remodel for which we've been saving for the past few years now (knowing it was coming). We'll be using LiCl and the other chemicals recommended by TFP this season!

Appreciate the additional reading! I'm looking forward to putting all of this advice to work once the pool is remodeled, filled, and running without constraints.

BTW, I used our old Taylor test kit to measure the big 5 resulting in the following measurements: Cl = Trace (< 0.5 ppm), pH = 7.9, CYA = 0, TA = 120, CH = 120. Only the CH (lower than expected), and perhaps the pH (higher than expected), surprised me here. I hope to have the new TF-Pro test kit in time to capture another data point with fresh reagents before the PB provides us the chemicals sheet detailing what we need to add and in what order.