Relationship w/ Frog@ease coming to an end. Help!

[smartiparks]

spa owner of 2.5 years now, have only used Frog@Ease system. Feel like I finally am understanding the chemistry of alkalinity/ph/calcium. Tired of Frog@Ease not lasting as long as it claims and it’s certainly not cheap to keep up with. However, I will say it’s been pretty easy to maintain and I like not having to add chlorine manually on a daily basis.

Looking for someone to convince me that leaving the Frog@ease system is worth it (It seems there are many on this forum that dislike frog@Ease system or find it useless/money grab).

Switching to chlorine or whatever tfp method just seems so overwhelming to me especially when we have to leave the tub when going out of town.

Looking for some solid advice. I have been reading up on several articles here on TFP and will continue to do so, but for the time being am trying to figure out the best option for our hot tub.

 

[Bperry]

spa owner of 2.5 years now, have only used Frog@Ease system. Feel like I finally am understanding the chemistry of alkalinity/ph/calcium. Tired of Frog@Ease not lasting as long as it claims and it’s certainly not cheap to keep up with. However, I will say it’s been pretty easy to maintain and I like not having to add chlorine manually on a daily basis.

Looking for someone to convince me that leaving the Frog@ease system is worth it (It seems there are many on this forum that dislike frog@Ease system or find it useless/money grab).

Switching to chlorine or whatever tfp method just seems so overwhelming to me especially when we have to leave the tub when going out of town.

Looking for some solid advice. I have been reading up on several articles here on TFP and will continue to do so, but for the time being am trying to figure out the best option for our hot tub.

You won’t find many here that recommend that system. The best option for chlorination is a salt chlorinator as it makes the chlorine for you. It if you go months without using the tub or checking it, draining it when not in use may be the best option.

 

[phonedave]

spa owner of 2.5 years now, have only used Frog@Ease system. Feel like I finally am understanding the chemistry of alkalinity/ph/calcium. Tired of Frog@Ease not lasting as long as it claims and it’s certainly not cheap to keep up with. However, I will say it’s been pretty easy to maintain and I like not having to add chlorine manually on a daily basis.

Looking for someone to convince me that leaving the Frog@ease system is worth it (It seems there are many on this forum that dislike frog@Ease system or find it useless/money grab).

Switching to chlorine or whatever tfp method just seems so overwhelming to me especially when we have to leave the tub when going out of town.

Looking for some solid advice. I have been reading up on several articles here on TFP and will continue to do so, but for the time being am trying to figure out the best option for our hot tub.

Using chlorine (bleach) in a hot tub is not that difficult, or time consuming.

High level it goes as follows, starting after a water change (and this is exactly what I do)

1. Start off by adding DiChlor (chlorine granules). This will add both Chlorine and CYA (stabilizer) to your tub
2. Add acid to get your pH down to around 7.2
3. Daily, add DiChlor as necessary to keep your FC up, and add acid to keep your pH down.
4. When your CYA reaches where it needs to be, stop using DiChlor and start using bleach/liquid chlorine
5. Eventually your pH will stop drifting upwards (after 7-10 days for me) and will stabilize, then your daily acid additions will stop

Now you are basically in steady state. You add Chlorine as necessary, and check pH and add acid if necessary

Here is my little secret. If nobody is using my hot tub, I don't check it every day. I may check it every third day. I have never had an issue with this. I always have some FC, and no CC's when I check. I believe part of this is because I purge with AhhSome when I change water, and I use AquaClarity on weekly basis. My tub is clean, and I keep it clean.

If we use the tub, I add chlorine after soaking - 1 oz per person per 20 min in the tub.

As far as calcium is concerned, I raise my CH up because I get foaming otherwise. Once it is where it needs to be, there really is no reason to worry about it.

Once my tub is "stabilized" my maintenance consists of checking pH, FC, and CC 3-4 days a week. Maybe once a month I need to add acid. I add liquid chlorine on those days as necessary. After each use I also add chlorine. If I am going away, I add chlorine before I leave. If nobody is going to be using the tub while I am gone, I run it up to SLAM levels. If people are using it, I tell them to add an ounce of chlorine each day, and 2 oz after each use.

It is really not that time consuming.

 

[smartiparks]

Using chlorine (bleach) in a hot tub is not that difficult, or time consuming.

High level it goes as follows, starting after a water change (and this is exactly what I do)

1. Start off by adding DiChlor (chlorine granules). This will add both Chlorine and CYA (stabilizer) to your tub
2. Add acid to get your pH down to around 7.2
3. Daily, add DiChlor as necessary to keep your FC up, and add acid to keep your pH down.
4. When your CYA reaches where it needs to be, stop using DiChlor and start using bleach/liquid chlorine
5. Eventually your pH will stop drifting upwards (after 7-10 days for me) and will stabilize, then your daily acid additions will stop

Now you are basically in steady state. You add Chlorine as necessary, and check pH and add acid if necessary

Here is my little secret. If nobody is using my hot tub, I don't check it every day. I may check it every third day. I have never had an issue with this. I always have some FC, and no CC's when I check. I believe part of this is because I purge with AhhSome when I change water, and I use AquaClarity on weekly basis. My tub is clean, and I keep it clean.

If we use the tub, I add chlorine after soaking - 1 oz per person per 20 min in the tub.

As far as calcium is concerned, I raise my CH up because I get foaming otherwise. Once it is where it needs to be, there really is no reason to worry about it.

Once my tub is "stabilized" my maintenance consists of checking pH, FC, and CC 3-4 days a week. Maybe once a month I need to add acid. I add liquid chlorine on those days as necessary. After each use I also add chlorine. If I am going away, I add chlorine before I leave. If nobody is going to be using the tub while I am gone, I run it up to SLAM levels. If people are using it, I tell them to add an ounce of chlorine each day, and 2 oz after each use.

It is really not that time consuming.

Thank you so much! Sounds like you have a great working system. Im sure once o get the hang of doing something new it will be easy, just took me awhile to understand balancing the chemicals, using the fog and maintaining up until this point (because with the frog you def need to maintain with something even though the directions only say to shock once a month!) Right now I’ve just been using the frog@ease and after bathing put about an ounce of spa oxi in. honestly we havent had many issues and I keep the tub very clean and water usually cooperates.

I’m in the process of draining/cleaning right now. I purge with hot tub serum Total Cleanse water care (purple gel), but have heard good things about ahhhsome. I also make sure to do a pro longed purge/wipe clean, let sit/repeat a few more times. And once a week I put a spa biotic in (enzymes).

If I’m understanding correctly, you add the dichlor first before adjusting your alkalinity and ph? I always do alk + ph + ch first.

What liquid chlorine/bleach is recommended? After bathing do you add the liquid chlorine or dichlor granules?

I’m just reading up on the SLAM method, how much/what type chlorine do you use when doing this in your tub. My tub is 395gal. I think on my final purge I am going to add chlorine to make sure everything is killed (I’ve had issues with what I think is algae or mold getting stuck in the waterfall features and I can only clean so much of it I can’t take it completely apart).

Thanks for your help!

 

[ILSBJ]

Hi,

disinfection is the most important, so dichlor/bleach (liquid chlorine) first, then you have time to adjust pH, TA, CH...

until you have the target CYA level, use dichlor, then bleach (liquid chlorine)
just check CYA about once a month (it slowly decreases) and use adequate amount of dichlor to reach the target value...


with proper care you don't need SLAM, final purge or if SLAM is necessary, use bleach (liquid chlorine)

ILSBJ

 

[phonedave]

Thank you so much! Sounds like you have a great working system. Im sure once o get the hang of doing something new it will be easy, just took me awhile to understand balancing the chemicals, using the fog and maintaining up until this point (because with the frog you def need to maintain with something even though the directions only say to shock once a month!) Right now I’ve just been using the frog@ease and after bathing put about an ounce of spa oxi in. honestly we havent had many issues and I keep the tub very clean and water usually cooperates.

I’m in the process of draining/cleaning right now. I purge with hot tub serum Total Cleanse water care (purple gel), but have heard good things about ahhhsome. I also make sure to do a pro longed purge/wipe clean, let sit/repeat a few more times. And once a week I put a spa biotic in (enzymes).

If I’m understanding correctly, you add the dichlor first before adjusting your alkalinity and ph? I always do alk + ph + ch first.

What liquid chlorine/bleach is recommended? After bathing do you add the liquid chlorine or dichlor granules?

I’m just reading up on the SLAM method, how much/what type chlorine do you use when doing this in your tub. My tub is 395gal. I think on my final purge I am going to add chlorine to make sure everything is killed (I’ve had issues with what I think is algae or mold getting stuck in the waterfall features and I can only clean so much of it I can’t take it completely apart).

Thanks for your help!

I don't follow the advice 100%. I add acid or bleach - whatever one I grab first. Then I wait about a minute, and add the other one.

I use dichlor whenever I need chlorine, up until I have enough CYA (which happens pretty quickly) then I switch to bleach.

As for what bleach is recommended, anything that is just beach: No additives - scents, splash less, "ChloroMax Technology", flavors? whatever, are no good.

You used to be able to get plain bleach pretty easily, but now a lot of bleach has additives. It is often easier to find "Liquid Chlorine" at a pool store. Liquid Chlorine is also usually more concentrated than bleach.

 

[elbow]

I prefer to go to my local pool store and just pick up a gallon at a time of the liquid chlorine at 12.5%. I find that it's not very much more expensive than a gallon of bleach and the higher % of chlorine makes it last longer. Also means I have to pour less in each time. I also really enjoy the exasperated and confused looks they give me every time I tell them it's for my hot tub.

 

[Mdragger88]

I’m in the process of draining/cleaning right now. I purge with hot tub serum Total Cleanse water care (purple gel), but have heard good things about ahhhsome. I also make sure to do a pro longed purge/wipe clean, let sit/repeat a few more times. And once a week I put a spa biotic in (enzymes).

Total cleanse is the same as ahhsome gel - just sold in different places

If I’m understanding correctly, you add the dichlor first before adjusting your alkalinity and ph? I always do alk + ph + ch first.

Clorine is king so you want adequate fc at all times.
Ph is queen and needs to be actively managed but this can take a couple doses so don’t wait to chlorinate properly.
Getting Ta down takes time (usually several rounds of lowering ph) so chlorination should not wait for this to occur.
Ch adjustment is not a huge priority.
Many people, myself included have very low ch (below 150) and leave it that way.

What liquid chlorine/bleach is recommended?

Unadulterated sodium hypochlorite- this can be plain household bleach (no scents, no cloromax, no fabric conditioners, no splashless)usually 3-7% strength
or
dedicated pool chlorine which is usually 10-12% strength and has no additives.

After bathing do you add the liquid chlorine or dichlor granules?

Depends on what you need.
If you need cya and can stand the ph hit then use dichlor
If not then use liquid chlorine

I’m just reading up on the SLAM method, how much/what type chlorine do you use when doing this in your tub. My tub is 395gal. I think on my final purge I am going to add chlorine to make sure everything is killed (I’ve had issues with what I think is algae or mold getting stuck in the waterfall features and I can only clean so much of it I can’t take it completely apart).

Thanks for your help!

Use liquid chlorine- no need to waste expensive dichlor. Also, dichlor adds cya so if you need to go more than a round or two your necessary slam fc level will increase. It is also acidic so that must be taken into consideration.
Use PoolMath effects of adding to see all the effects dichlor will have before using.

 

[DrNinjaman]

Also, worth pointing out that CYA gets depleted mostly by sun exposure, so I don't see that level move much at all given that we only use the tub in the evenings. I usually set it to 30ppm with the dichlor at a fresh fill and it lasts until the next time I dump the water. I also like adding a little borax (30ppm) with each fill, which keeps the pH steadier over time. Once my TA gets down to around 50ppm, the pH will sit at 7.9 for weeks.
As far as chlorine goes, I run a SmarterSpa salt cell, which uses a sensor to watch the oxidizer level and turns on for a preset duration when it falls too low. The cell and sensor take a little calibration with every new fill because the exact concentration of salt in the water and the average pH will affect the sensor sensitivity and chlorine production, but after about a week of regular checking and adjusting it's basically on autopilot and I only have to check the levels about weekly. I usually don't need to do anything after I check except for the occasional tablespoon of muriatic acid. It's the least intrusive maintenance routine I've been able to figure out, though I had my growing pains when I started running it as my posting history will attest. Runs very smoothly now though and the water looks, smells, and feels perfect.

 

[Mdragger88]

@DrNinjaman some who keep their tub hotter notice a degradation of cya - the hotter the water the faster this occurs.
So its imperative to keep a check on it or you can accidentally over chlorinate which can lead to bather discomfort and even equipment damage if left unchecked. I need to use dichlor every couple weeks to maintain my cya in the 30/40 range since I keep my tub about 104F. I also have a smaller tub (250 gal) which is a little more affected by splashout (carrying water out in suits) requiring topping off occasionally which also dilutes my cya.

 

[phonedave]

I prefer to go to my local pool store and just pick up a gallon at a time of the liquid chlorine at 12.5%. I find that it's not very much more expensive than a gallon of bleach and the higher % of chlorine makes it last longer. Also means I have to pour less in each time. I also really enjoy the exasperated and confused looks they give me every time I tell them it's for my hot tub.

Around here (Northern NJ) if I want pool chlorine, I cannot buy it by the gallon.

Home Depot sells it in 3 gallon packs, and my local Leslie's Pool Store only sells it in 4 gallon cases.

 

[elbow]

Around here (Northern NJ) if I want pool chlorine, I cannot buy it by the gallon.

Home Depot sells it in 3 gallon packs, and my local Leslie's Pool Store only sells it in 4 gallon cases.

That's how they'd like to do it around me as well, but they always overbuy the stuff and are so desperate to move it they will begrudgingly break the cases up.

 

[smartiparks]

One more question if anyone is still seeing this. All your help has been super appreciated!

I think I’ve got everything figured out and I’m looking forward to doing it this way vs the frog way.

We usually bath a couple of times a day, me in the morning and evening and then my son after his swim practice in evening and then me and my husband will get in in the evening.

What’s the best way about adding chlorine and/or shocking before and after use? Since we’ve only used the frog I’ve never had to tell my son (14) or husband to do anything before or afterwards (I would usually put non chlorine shock in after each use).

Reading through TFP, it seems that oxi shock isn’t necessarily recommended after use.

I have dichlor and I also got bleach with NOTHING else added. It says ~7.1% chlorine available. 395 gal hot tub. What are your recommendations. I’m not used to monitoring chlorine levels so just get nervous about having too much in when my son or his friends are in or guests or just us.

Looking back, I realize that I don’t think the frog@ease was keeping up at ALL times which is when we would run into some issues.

Thanks!

 

[wireform]

As long as your cya is at 30 the slam level would be 12 so the FC level up to that is safe and it keep the water sanitary as you said son and friends could bring it down fast.

 

[Mdragger88]

@smartiparks,
You’ll need to measure fc before and after using the tub in various scenarios to get a better understanding of your fc consumption for each instance.
You can simply start with a 30 minute 1 person soak to get an idea & do the math from there. Then you’ll know what kinda margin you will need before you use the tub so you can make it through the soak without fc falling too low.
In my 250 gal tub if I start at 6ppm fc I can do 45 minutes or so by myself before nearing minimum. My husband can do about 30 minutes - he’s twice as large as me & a dirty old man lol
Lots of times he will get in first for a but and when I join him I will add a couple oz of lc which buys us a bit of time.
The larger the tub the smaller the swing will be. The more people the more fc you will need.
I know it sounds like micromanaging especially compared to your previous practices but its really about learning how it behaves with different variables & feeding the tub what it needs to deal with those variables proactively. Once you know it will become 2nd nature. I generally only need to add fc at the end of my soak - this adds enough to make up for anything still in the water yet to be oxidized and to get me through to my next check (standby needs) if I am not using my swg for that.
although I do always check it beforehand to confirm I am good to go for my intended batherload.
When in doubt aim a scootch high - the dirty people will use it up lol.
With multiple teens/groups all bets are off & I just raise fc to near slam level (around 9/10 for my cya of 30) and check the tub in 30 minutes or so.
We keep our tub hot so I give the kids a 30 minute limit and then require a cool down break anyway. Kid’s & teen’s skin and bodies don’t regulate temperature as well as adults. When mine were younger i capped it at 15 minutes and turned the tub down.

 

[elbow]

Agree with all this. If you just test before, after and the next day for a couple of weeks worth of use and different loads, you'll learn really fast about where you want your FC before and how much to throw in after. I basically just guesstimate and eyeball these days.

 

[Newdude]

you'll learn really fast about where you want your FC before and how much to throw in after. I basically just guesstimate and eyeball these days.

Its crazy how a little effort upfront pays spades going forward once you're over the learning curve. And TFP will be one's training wheels, for free, until they can ride solo. It's a pretty sweet deal, if I do say so.