@bradgray I’m in the market to automate my system and really only care about automating SWG, deck jets, and pump. I am between the Easytouch 8 and the new Intellicenter Lite. As someone new to this, my PB said I should start with Easytouch and then eventually add to this. I do have each piece of equipment on a dedicated breaker on my main house panel and the equipment pad is just switches. Equipment: Pentair SuperFlo VSP, Pentair Bioshield, Clean and Clear filter, and a Raypack pool heater. I also have a dedicated vacuum line and line for deck jets. Could you help me understand what these system could offer and why one would be better than the other? I see your post and read differences on Pentair’s website but only see an interface difference and maybe the fact that the Intellicenter doesn’t have the load center. Also, what kind of price difference would you expect for each unit? TIA
Pentair automation selection
- Thread starter yabby32
- Start date
Easytouch 8 is overkill for your system. The "8" represents how many Aux circuits (relays) the panel has. Aux circuits are only needed if you are powering something with high voltage at some point in it's circuit, like a pump or a blower, lights etc. Based on your description, you only have 1 item that would attach to a relay (*more on this below*), other than your pool light/s. Also, if you already have a sub panel, you don't need the load center (breaker slots) within the ET either. In order to have remote access, you'd also need the legacy Screenlogic kit, which is another $700 or so.
The PB advice to upgrade later is poor, because upgrading the ET to an IC Lite later is the same cost as just buying the IC Lite to begin with, ignoring the hassle to do the upgrade. If you want the IC interface, you should go with that from the beginning.
If you choose the IntelliCenter, be aware you will not have the salt cell transformer within any of the IC Lite systems. You'd have to purchase the power center #520566 to run your Intellichlor salt cell. Don't be confused by the IC Lite listing saying it includes a 'power center'. It does, but it's the transformer for the panel to operate, not the transformer for the salt cell. This is usually around $500 in and of itself. Generally speaking though, given your setup and needs, purchasing the base IC Lite and adding the salt cell power center later is still going to be cheaper than buying the regular IC.
One final word of advice though: the IC systems don't like the Superflo VS drive very much. YMMV, but we've had a number of comm issues with them and have quite a few of these pumps set to run through *relays like a single-speed. It's not ideal, because you can't set specific flow rates etc for your deck jets or suction cleaner schedules. Though you could get around the deck jet issue with a well-cammed actuator.
Depending on how far you are into your build, I'd try and swap the SuperFlo for the IntelliFlo for really seamless communication.
Costs are going to vary depending on where you source it, but the general swing is going to be $1K-2K LESS to go with the IC Lite.
P.S. I don't love UV systems unless your pool is indoors. We have plenty of free UV burning the top of my balding dome every day! Take those funds and reinvest in another piece of your system.
The PB advice to upgrade later is poor, because upgrading the ET to an IC Lite later is the same cost as just buying the IC Lite to begin with, ignoring the hassle to do the upgrade. If you want the IC interface, you should go with that from the beginning.
If you choose the IntelliCenter, be aware you will not have the salt cell transformer within any of the IC Lite systems. You'd have to purchase the power center #520566 to run your Intellichlor salt cell. Don't be confused by the IC Lite listing saying it includes a 'power center'. It does, but it's the transformer for the panel to operate, not the transformer for the salt cell. This is usually around $500 in and of itself. Generally speaking though, given your setup and needs, purchasing the base IC Lite and adding the salt cell power center later is still going to be cheaper than buying the regular IC.
One final word of advice though: the IC systems don't like the Superflo VS drive very much. YMMV, but we've had a number of comm issues with them and have quite a few of these pumps set to run through *relays like a single-speed. It's not ideal, because you can't set specific flow rates etc for your deck jets or suction cleaner schedules. Though you could get around the deck jet issue with a well-cammed actuator.
Depending on how far you are into your build, I'd try and swap the SuperFlo for the IntelliFlo for really seamless communication.
Costs are going to vary depending on where you source it, but the general swing is going to be $1K-2K LESS to go with the IC Lite.
P.S. I don't love UV systems unless your pool is indoors. We have plenty of free UV burning the top of my balding dome every day! Take those funds and reinvest in another piece of your system.
Last edited:
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,680
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Great write up by @bradgray. I don't know the IC lite, so I'm just chiming in with some general automation advice.
Brad seems to know a bit more about your pool than the details in this thread. Are you building a pool? Do you have a build thread here? Or is your pool built, with some or all of the equipment you list already purchased and installed?
Anywho, I'll be a bit more "devil's advocate" than Brad. I will be happy to share the long-winded version if you care to know, but a UV system is completely unneeded for an outdoor pool. This is a money-grab by your builder (or whomever is advising you get one). Do not buy that.
And since you expressed to your builder/seller the notion of automation, the SuperFlo is the wrong pump, period. That is an odd recommendation. Get an IntelliFlo. Insist on that. You want to be able to program multiple pump speeds and have full access to each speed, and the ability to change each speed, from your automation interface, including remotely (away from home).
If you've got the breakers for your pool covered, than I suppose you don't need an automation solution for breakers, but if you have a way to run 30 amps to your pad, you'll be happier with the breakers on the pad, and housed in the same cabinet as the automation. Brad refers to this as the power center. My biggest regret of my purchase of an EasyTouch is not having the integrated breakers. Second regret was not having the integrated SWG transformer.
I'm happy with my EasyTouch, but I had to have it upgraded to an EasyTouch 8, because the "lite" version of EasyTouch was awful for my eventual use case. And this is mainly why I'm jumping in, to get you to think in terms of your future setup, not the one you need right now. I have a simple pool, but I'm an automation geek, and eventually found a use for six circuits. And one of those is not my pool light yet, so I really have a use for seven.
Keep in mind that you can automate more than just your pool equipment with a pool automation system. My yard is fully automated with probably a dozen gizmos. I use a dedicated home automation system for all that, but if you don't intend to run something like that, you could use your pool automation system for other devices, and have remote control of your yard from your phone. Examples include:
- Yard lights
- Garden lights
- Fountain(s)
- Bug zapper
- Outdoor speakers
- think anything that can "plug in"
I also use extra pool automation circuits for
- A high-speed skimmer mode.
- A dedicated suction-vacuum mode (I have a pool valve actuator for that)
- Solar heating (I have a second pool valve actuator for that)
- Gas heating
- Pool fill automation
- Freeze protection
- Pool acid injection
And I have an SWG.
Point being, just because you think you now have the use for only one or two relays, once you get the automation bug, that number would change drastically.
So think now about what you might want to do with your system. Asking what each model of automation can do is one approach, but the wrong one IMO. You should be asking yourself what you want to automate now, and in the short- and long-term future, and then find the system that can do that. Here's an example list, modify it to fit your use case (this is mostly me projecting, but I never considered these things when I chose my system):
- I want to have a high-speed skimmer mode to clean my surface quickly just in front of a pool party
- I want to have a quick vacuum mode, in addition to my daily cleaning schedule, to do an extra clean just in front of a pool party
- I want to heat my pool with a solar heater
- I want to heat my pool with a gas heater
- I want my automation system to know which of my two heaters to use at any given time for best efficiency
- I want to be able to control the schedule and the output level of my salt water generator (something, BTW, that changes many times throughout the year)
- I want to automate pool acid dispensing
- I want to be able to control:
- my pool lights
- my patio lights
- two circuits of garden lights
- a bird bath fountain
- some bistro lights
- I want a couple of circuits for expansion, for things I've yet to think of
So even with a "simple" pool, you might actually have a need for a sophisticated automation system (or maybe you won't).
And finally, EasyTouch, I think, is now decades old. The add-on ScreenLogic system, which you would need if you want to run your pool from an iPad, your phone or computer, is also that old. Pentair does keep the mobile device interface for ScreenLogic somewhat current, but not the computer interface. That is all but officially abandoned. There is no browser-based interface, it is a kludgy Windows interface that was once ported for Apple computers, but that too was abandoned and no longer even runs on the latest Macintosh OSes.
Their more recent offerings are all based on IntelliCenter. I don't know much about IntelliCenter, but I understand it has a browser-based interface. It is definitely where the Pentair focus is now. I imagine were I to buy today, I would be looking at the new tech of IntelliCenter, and not the well worn (out) tech of EasyTouch.
So, for me at least, buying the older, "lite" EasyTouch was my single greatest pool equipment purchase mistake. I should have gotten an EasyTouch 8 with the integrated circuit breakers and SWG transformer. And don't get me wrong, EasyTouch is a good system, and seems to be a Pentair staple, but it hasn't been upgraded in forever, which indicates to me it's not going to be (that's pure conjecture, but a somewhat educated one).
PS. I cannot imagine running a pool without automation, but especially not without a salt water generator. You are very likely going to want one, and if you're going with Pentair equipment and automation, you'll want a Pentair SWG, and one that is fully integrated into your automation system. Think that through now.
I suggest you build your automation wish list first, then download the owner manual for any automation system you are considering, and pour over those manuals until you are crystal clear on the best system for your future needs. It's what I didn't do, and still regret. I let someone else, who knew better than I did, select my automation system, and that's where I went wrong. I should have done my own due diligence. Starting at TFP is a great first step, but shouldn't be your only. And from the sound of it, your builder is not a trusted resource for this decision.
Continue your research. Continue to ask questions here. Others that know the IntelliCenter and the Easytouch will no doubt chime in.
Brad seems to know a bit more about your pool than the details in this thread. Are you building a pool? Do you have a build thread here? Or is your pool built, with some or all of the equipment you list already purchased and installed?
Anywho, I'll be a bit more "devil's advocate" than Brad. I will be happy to share the long-winded version if you care to know, but a UV system is completely unneeded for an outdoor pool. This is a money-grab by your builder (or whomever is advising you get one). Do not buy that.
And since you expressed to your builder/seller the notion of automation, the SuperFlo is the wrong pump, period. That is an odd recommendation. Get an IntelliFlo. Insist on that. You want to be able to program multiple pump speeds and have full access to each speed, and the ability to change each speed, from your automation interface, including remotely (away from home).
If you've got the breakers for your pool covered, than I suppose you don't need an automation solution for breakers, but if you have a way to run 30 amps to your pad, you'll be happier with the breakers on the pad, and housed in the same cabinet as the automation. Brad refers to this as the power center. My biggest regret of my purchase of an EasyTouch is not having the integrated breakers. Second regret was not having the integrated SWG transformer.
I'm happy with my EasyTouch, but I had to have it upgraded to an EasyTouch 8, because the "lite" version of EasyTouch was awful for my eventual use case. And this is mainly why I'm jumping in, to get you to think in terms of your future setup, not the one you need right now. I have a simple pool, but I'm an automation geek, and eventually found a use for six circuits. And one of those is not my pool light yet, so I really have a use for seven.
Keep in mind that you can automate more than just your pool equipment with a pool automation system. My yard is fully automated with probably a dozen gizmos. I use a dedicated home automation system for all that, but if you don't intend to run something like that, you could use your pool automation system for other devices, and have remote control of your yard from your phone. Examples include:
- Yard lights
- Garden lights
- Fountain(s)
- Bug zapper
- Outdoor speakers
- think anything that can "plug in"
I also use extra pool automation circuits for
- A high-speed skimmer mode.
- A dedicated suction-vacuum mode (I have a pool valve actuator for that)
- Solar heating (I have a second pool valve actuator for that)
- Gas heating
- Pool fill automation
- Freeze protection
- Pool acid injection
And I have an SWG.
Point being, just because you think you now have the use for only one or two relays, once you get the automation bug, that number would change drastically.
So think now about what you might want to do with your system. Asking what each model of automation can do is one approach, but the wrong one IMO. You should be asking yourself what you want to automate now, and in the short- and long-term future, and then find the system that can do that. Here's an example list, modify it to fit your use case (this is mostly me projecting, but I never considered these things when I chose my system):
- I want to have a high-speed skimmer mode to clean my surface quickly just in front of a pool party
- I want to have a quick vacuum mode, in addition to my daily cleaning schedule, to do an extra clean just in front of a pool party
- I want to heat my pool with a solar heater
- I want to heat my pool with a gas heater
- I want my automation system to know which of my two heaters to use at any given time for best efficiency
- I want to be able to control the schedule and the output level of my salt water generator (something, BTW, that changes many times throughout the year)
- I want to automate pool acid dispensing
- I want to be able to control:
- my pool lights
- my patio lights
- two circuits of garden lights
- a bird bath fountain
- some bistro lights
- I want a couple of circuits for expansion, for things I've yet to think of
So even with a "simple" pool, you might actually have a need for a sophisticated automation system (or maybe you won't).
And finally, EasyTouch, I think, is now decades old. The add-on ScreenLogic system, which you would need if you want to run your pool from an iPad, your phone or computer, is also that old. Pentair does keep the mobile device interface for ScreenLogic somewhat current, but not the computer interface. That is all but officially abandoned. There is no browser-based interface, it is a kludgy Windows interface that was once ported for Apple computers, but that too was abandoned and no longer even runs on the latest Macintosh OSes.
Their more recent offerings are all based on IntelliCenter. I don't know much about IntelliCenter, but I understand it has a browser-based interface. It is definitely where the Pentair focus is now. I imagine were I to buy today, I would be looking at the new tech of IntelliCenter, and not the well worn (out) tech of EasyTouch.
So, for me at least, buying the older, "lite" EasyTouch was my single greatest pool equipment purchase mistake. I should have gotten an EasyTouch 8 with the integrated circuit breakers and SWG transformer. And don't get me wrong, EasyTouch is a good system, and seems to be a Pentair staple, but it hasn't been upgraded in forever, which indicates to me it's not going to be (that's pure conjecture, but a somewhat educated one).
PS. I cannot imagine running a pool without automation, but especially not without a salt water generator. You are very likely going to want one, and if you're going with Pentair equipment and automation, you'll want a Pentair SWG, and one that is fully integrated into your automation system. Think that through now.
I suggest you build your automation wish list first, then download the owner manual for any automation system you are considering, and pour over those manuals until you are crystal clear on the best system for your future needs. It's what I didn't do, and still regret. I let someone else, who knew better than I did, select my automation system, and that's where I went wrong. I should have done my own due diligence. Starting at TFP is a great first step, but shouldn't be your only. And from the sound of it, your builder is not a trusted resource for this decision.
Continue your research. Continue to ask questions here. Others that know the IntelliCenter and the Easytouch will no doubt chime in.
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rjb1211
Well-known member
- Jul 29, 2017
- 261
- Pool Size
- 37000
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Great thread. I am going to be starting a thread to ask questions and this one has been very informative. It already addressed some of my questions and also raised some that I hadn’t thought about.
Be aware also that Pentair is not going to be supporting EasyTouch going forward, if that matters to you. They are focusing on Intellicenter. (EasyTouch is still useable)
www.troublefreepool.com
IntelliTouch and EasyTouch Officially Obsolete
The time has come. Pentair released a statement to all distributors and warranty stations that the IntelliTouch and EasyTouch/EasyTouch Lite systems are officially obsolete by the end of this year. Warranty will continue to be available per normal terms on equipment purchased this year, but the...
www.troublefreepool.com
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,680
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Wow, thanks for that. At least they told us, and made it official. This has been obvious for years.Be aware also that Pentair is not going to be supporting EasyTouch going forward, if that matters to you. They are focusing on Intellicenter. (EasyTouch is still useable)
IntelliTouch and EasyTouch Officially Obsolete
The time has come. Pentair released a statement to all distributors and warranty stations that the IntelliTouch and EasyTouch/EasyTouch Lite systems are officially obsolete by the end of this year. Warranty will continue to be available per normal terms on equipment purchased this year, but the...
[Edit: I struck that because of post #7 below, which is something else to consider.]
They also offer something called IntelliConnect, which is their "discount" controller, with limited functionality. Maybe it's all you need. But, again, download the manuals and give them a read before you decide.
IntelliConnect® Pool Control System
The IntelliConnect® pool control and monitoring system from Pentair lets owners monitor and control their pool's functions conveniently and easily. Learn more.
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My 2c... I dunno about skipping the Easytouch just because it's end-of-life... I definitely see the appeal of the intellicenter but I'm not totally sold, and I'm not worried about ET support. I have an intellicenter that I have to repair before I can install it - and I'm in no rush (it needs a new relay driver, which is now impossibly small AND soldered on vs. socketed like the easytouch chips).
The easytouch has been around for 15 years and the current firmware does pretty much everything you need. You'd have to add screenlogic (or use the "free" njs pool controller) if you want remote access, but the ET hardware is stupid simple and - in my humble opinion - more robust (i.e. tolerant of abuse) than the intellicenter. Just about any easytouch - barring serious physical damage (ask @Dirk for some pics of burned boards
- can be repaired... But many of the dead intellicenters discussed on tfp have required a "replacement kit", which wastefully comes only as a full assembly - with a new display, main board, i5 personality board and bezel. If out of warranty, that's a cost of $1k. You can get a used, working, updated ET board on eBay for 250 if you look.
The easytouch has been around for 15 years and the current firmware does pretty much everything you need. You'd have to add screenlogic (or use the "free" njs pool controller) if you want remote access, but the ET hardware is stupid simple and - in my humble opinion - more robust (i.e. tolerant of abuse) than the intellicenter. Just about any easytouch - barring serious physical damage (ask @Dirk for some pics of burned boards
- can be repaired... But many of the dead intellicenters discussed on tfp have required a "replacement kit", which wastefully comes only as a full assembly - with a new display, main board, i5 personality board and bezel. If out of warranty, that's a cost of $1k. You can get a used, working, updated ET board on eBay for 250 if you look.
- Nov 12, 2017
- 12,680
- Pool Size
- 12300
- Surface
- Plaster
- Chlorine
- Salt Water Generator
- SWG Type
- Pentair Intellichlor IC-40
Great analysis Tom. Thanks. Those are definitely things I did not know about the IntelliCenter. And EasyTouch does have a long track record going for it, so there's that.My 2c... I dunno about skipping the Easytouch just because it's end-of-life... I definitely see the appeal of the intellicenter but I'm not totally sold, and I'm not worried about ET support. I have an intellicenter that I have to repair before I can install it - and I'm in no rush (it needs a new relay driver, which is now impossibly small AND soldered on vs. socketed like the easytouch chips).
The easytouch has been around for 15 years and the current firmware does pretty much everything you need. You'd have to add screenlogic (or use the "free" njs pool controller) if you want remote access, but the ET hardware is stupid simple and - in my humble opinion - more robust (i.e. tolerant of abuse) than the intellicenter. Just about any easytouch - barring serious physical damage (ask @Dirk for some pics of burned boards
I've only ever owned EasyTouch, and while I outgrew the lite version, I had it upgraded to an EasyTouch 8, which serves me well. It did misbehave once, which I fixed myself with a factory reset, but it has never actually broken down necessitating any sort of repair, let alone an expensive one. That said, I'd still have a tough time buying a discontinued product. Sorry to go back and forth on ya, but better to have all the opinions and facts, from which you can make an informed decision.
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@Dirk just two brief points of clarification.
I agree with your statements and general sentiment about future-proofing. But Pentair was better with the IC Lite and did not handicap the system with hardware IDs. All relay and feature expandability options exist in equivalence to the full IC.
Also, the languaged reference to the "power center" was to prevent the assumption it would support his salt cell out of the box.
All automation panels not salt ready require what Pentair also calls a "power center" to support the Intellichlor. The use of this term interchangeably can cause confusion. When Pentair released their new marketing materials for the IC Lite, all iterations were listed "w/ power center" and made it easy to assume it meant salt ready.
They aren't. And need the seperate power center, or, if someone wanted to unpack and build 520566 into the panel - we've seen it done but you have to splice the transformer wires into 520724 to get it to reach the low voltage chase.
I agree with your statements and general sentiment about future-proofing. But Pentair was better with the IC Lite and did not handicap the system with hardware IDs. All relay and feature expandability options exist in equivalence to the full IC.
Also, the languaged reference to the "power center" was to prevent the assumption it would support his salt cell out of the box.
All automation panels not salt ready require what Pentair also calls a "power center" to support the Intellichlor. The use of this term interchangeably can cause confusion. When Pentair released their new marketing materials for the IC Lite, all iterations were listed "w/ power center" and made it easy to assume it meant salt ready.
They aren't. And need the seperate power center, or, if someone wanted to unpack and build 520566 into the panel - we've seen it done but you have to splice the transformer wires into 520724 to get it to reach the low voltage chase.
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