New Owners, First Close

[edwardspool]

Hello, I've cruised through the forums quite a bit and just looking for a little bit of clarification/advice on a few points.

We recently bought a home with a 18x36, ~28,000 gallon pool (located in Southern Michigan). It was already opened when we closed on the home and we have been using the Pool Math app to successfully maintain the pool all summer. We have a T-9 SWG, 1.5HP pump, and sand filter.

We scheduled a closing for the end of this month (I'd love to do it but am out of town for the next several weeks for work and it's beyond the scope of a mom with kids running around). The gentlemen who is closing our pool gave us some instructions I'd like to get a sanity check on:

Drain the pool a few inches below the skimmer basket
Add a non-chlorine winter kit (his logic was chlorine is heavy and sinks to the bottom over winter)

I can't really discern what I may be adding with a "winter kit" but I'm leery of introducing metal or anything else weird to the pool.

We have a safety cover for the winter (anchors in cement), should we be concerned with pool overflowing? How far below skimmer basket should we be draining the pool to avoid this? Does our light that's about 15 inches below the surface need to be winterized? Is there anything we should be asking him or ensuring is complete upon closing?

We're open to all criticism, advice, etc. thanks in advance for everything this community provides!

28k gal, vinyl, 1/2HP pump, Hayward sand filter, Hayward T-9 SWG, S200 robot, TF Salt pro test kit

 

[Getitrite]

Add a non-chlorine winter kit (his logic was chlorine is heavy and sinks to the bottom over winter)

Welcome! I'll let the experts answer you specifics, but I will comment: Pretty sure the above is not accurate. As I understand it, once mixed in, the chlorine will not separate and "sink".

The past two years, I've closed my vinyl liner pool just by waiting until the water temp is below 60 deg, raising the chlorine to SLAM level, shut it down and cover with solid cover. I did use the SLAM level chlorine, bring it half way down, add algaecide, shut down method 3 years ago, but found no algaecide method works well enough for me. Closed 2023 at Cl 21.5, Opened 2024 (late) at CYA 30, Cl 5.5. Clear water, start up in 2 days.

 

[Newdude]

I can't really discern what I may be adding with a "winter kit" but I'm leery of introducing metal or anything else weird to the pool.

None of them are any good. Most have harmful additives you do not want in your pool. Nothing in any winter kit knows what your current levels are, it's 100% dump and pray.

Finish the season with everything in range. Your choices are to close at full slam, or half slam and add polyquat 60.

We have a safety cover for the winter (anchors in cement), should we be concerned with pool overflowing?

Is it mesh or solid ?

Does our light that's about 15 inches below the surface need to be winterized?

I wouldn't unless your guy insists based upon local practice.

Is there anything we should be asking him or ensuring is complete upon closing?

You handle the chemicals, they blow the lines and cover the pool.

 

[edwardspool]

None of them are any good. Most have harmful additives you do not want in your pool. Nothing in any winter kit knows what your current levels are, it's 100% dump and pray.

Finish the season with everything in range. Your choices are to close at full slam, or half slam and add polyquat 60.



Is it mesh or solid ?

I wouldn't unless your guy insists based upon local practice.

You handle the chemicals, they blow the lines and cover the pool.

What dosage of polyquat? should I use the initial treatment guidelines of 6-11oz per 10,000 gallons?

It's a mesh cover, anything to be concerned with there?

 

[Newdude]

What dosage of polyquat? should I use the initial treatment guidelines of 6-11oz per 10,000 gallons?

Yes do the initial treatment. I'd do the 11oz per 10k.

It's a mesh cover, anything to be concerned with there?

Overflowing. You'll see 18 to 24 inches of rain in the off season. Keep an eye on the long range forcast and drain right before the deep freeze. It'll probably be mostly full then anyway.

 

[edwardspool]

okay thank you for all the info; apologies for any ignorance!

I assume just some sort of submersible bilge pump for a mid-winter drain?

 

[Newdude]

apologies for any ignorance!

Please ask at any time. If you foul something up because you were unsure, we'll have multiple things to fix. Rest assured we'll help with that too, but it's far better for all parties to only have one fish to fry.

I assume just some sort of submersible bilge pump for a mid-winter drain?

There's a 1.6 HP submersible on amazon for $83. You can use your garden hose at reduced flow, or chop down the outlet piece and use a 1.5 inch hose to save alot of time.

 

[edwardspool]

great thank you so much, hopefully it goes uneventfully!

 

[Whynotme]

None of them are any good. Most have harmful additives you do not want in your pool. Nothing in any winter kit knows what your current levels are, it's 100% dump and pray.

My kit has shock, algaecide and what they call an alkalizer to maintain pH. Seems like an ok kit to me. This is my first season closing on my own, and this is the kit they have always used when closing my pool in previous years. Seems to work fine, open to clear and balanced pool every spring.

 

[Newdude]

Seems to work fine, open to clear and balanced pool every spring.

Sometimes prayers are answered, sometimes not. Here we add only what you need, in the exact amount you need. And certainly not laced with copper or sulfates as most winterizing kits come.

 

[Whynotme]

Sometimes prayers are answered, sometimes not. Here we add only what you need, in the exact amount you need. And certainly not laced with copper or sulfates as most winterizing kits come.

So the website where I bought the winterizing kit doesn't specifically say anything about the actual chemical composition, so now after getting it I realize it has copper in the bags. Not sure I want to use this kit now, but pool builder says that's what they use every year on every pool they built and maintain and they are always clear on opening and chemical balance is good as well.

 

[Newdude]

So the website where I bought the winterizing kit doesn't specifically say anything about the actual chemical composition, so now after getting it I realize it has copper in the bags

That's 2 big strikes IMO.

Test your water whether its in season or in preperation for closing. Add what it needs. No more, no less.

 

[Whynotme]

That's 2 big strikes IMO.

Test your water whether its in season or in preperation for closing. Add what it needs. No more, no less.

I test every other day during the season. It's fun and satisfying. Anyhow, so many pool info sites promote some kind of winterizing kit, so I guess the question is, do I just close it with all chemicals balanced? FC 11, CC 0, pH 7.4, Alk. 100, CH 170, CYA 70, salt 3280. I was thinking of jacking up the SWCG to around 50% for a couple of days to boost FC to around 20 before closing, but is that even necessary? I will wait until water hits 60 and stays there for a few days at least. Thanks

 

[Newdude]

so many pool info sites promote some kind of winterizing kit

They also promote a 1 to 3 FC, up to 200 CYA, and a host of harmful products / devices. Its all sales, or a blogger who doesnt know any better that googled industry advice.

I was thinking of jacking up the SWCG to around 50% for a couple of days to boost FC to around 20 before closing, but is that even necessary?

The lower the FC is at closing, the more likely it runs out before you open. So we close at slam. I check on mine periodically because I need to drain it with a mesh cover so I can add some more FC mid off season if needed. I go half slam and top off at drain times. If I walked away from it completely, if go full slam.

 

[sande005]

While your winters aren't quite as nasty as mine (I moved from the Detroit area to Minnesota a long time ago), here are the highlights of my closing:

1. Using the pump and going to waste, lower the pool to below the returns. (lines then are easy to clear, and I have more room for rain/melt water).
2. Using my Cyclone blower (used to be a 8 gal compressor, but not recommended), purge all the lines, heater, filter, pump, etc. with air. Since I blow into one skimmer for all, the second has a temporary pipe with a 90 degree fitting screwed in, so blown out water doesn't drain right back into the skimmer.
3. Remove drain plugs from filter, pump, heater and blow a little more. Put plugs aside until spring.
4. Since we get super cold, and frost depth is really deep, I use a screw in pipe (same as used for the skimmer) and funnel to add 2 gal of antifreeze to every line via the returns or the skimmer. Many skip this step. I like the reassurance.
5. Take eyeballs off of outlets, and plug with screw in caps. Add "Gizmos" (brand name) screwed into skimmers to prevent water intrusion. Some also pack the skimmers with pool noodles to protect against ice damage. All valves in open position, except the air locked deep drain.
6. Now I add Cl and Algaecide - and go around brushing the pool to promote mixing.
7. Leave multiport on filter on an in between setting to allow air into all the lines (some have a winterize or similar setting that does the same). Leave lid on pump, but only very loosely perched on it. Open pressure gauge on filter. The goal is to allow any pressure from ice formation a place to go, but not have bigger entry paths for furry creatures over the winter. Some add some antifreeze to the pot of the pump. Since newer to me, I take my SWCG cell inside, with a dummy pipe in it's place. May be too cautious, since if there is almost no water in it from blowing, there won't be much chance of damage. ( I now have a cartridge filter, and take the carts to a protected area - but with my sand filter, over decades, no issue with the wet sand and freezing. With the drain plug open, any residual water leaks out well before ice formation gets really serious).
8. Pop up the deck anchors, and fight getting the mesh cover on the pool - large, heavy - always a 2 person job.

In my area, no pool company will do the lowering of water, nor without a huge extra charge, will they put the cover on. Some do the antifreeze as part of the package.
The lowering takes the longest. The rest, about 2 hrs including the cover.
We get an average of about 3 ft. of snow over a winter (worst was 4 1/2). Between it, and late fall/early spring rains, in 30 yrs I've never uncovered to find it above the top of the skimmers, so still several inches in reserve before overflow is something to think about.
The snow load on the "standard" mesh cover has never been an issue (had LoopLoc and Meyco brands). Perhaps if yours is a "lite" style, that may be a concern - and needs some water under it to provide support. (ditto for others with a solid cover of any kind). Then not lowering as far, and being concerned about overflow may be an issue.

Spring is faster. Take cover off very early (mid-April), and admire the ice berg still in the pool. Add some Cl and wait for the ice to melt. May add Cl once in a while when the mood strikes while waiting for warmer weather (it lasts a long time with cold temps and low sun). When well past any freezing weather, I reassemble the equipment, plug my pipe adaptor into one return (others remain off and plugged), remove the skimmer gizmos, open the deep drain valve, prime the pump, and dump the antifreeze wherever it goes - lawn, patio, etc. Then repeat for the other outlets. The antifreeze is harmless and non-toxic, but I just don't like the idea of 10+ gal mixing in the pool. Will do some rough chem adjustments earlier, but wait to really get it right when the water temps hit about 60 or so.

Oh yeah - the light. In the olden days, I had an incandescent bulb type light fixture. Pool companies all strongly advised taking the light out, and placing on the deck as ice could easily break it. Worst part - water is pretty cold getting it out, and VERY cold getting it back in. With the last liner replacement, I had them change it to a sealed LED style - now no worries ever about having to take it out. Now I only unmount it once a year in warm weather (when I am in the pool) to give its niche a bit of a scrub just in case as algae prevention.