Liquidator "WS" Poll

[chem geek]

I think you are mixing up methods to prevent metal corrosion (i.e. sacrificial anodes) with methods to prevent scaling -- they are not the same thing. I wouldn't add aluminum to the pool anyway -- it is more likely to corrode than stainless steel, especially in higher chloride environments (i.e. SWG pools).

If you can't adjust the chemistry (i.e. lower saturation index), then use of scale inhibitors could work. They don't stop scale from forming completely, but do slow down the rate of such formation. The problem is anything you add to the LQ is going to get diluted and put into the body of the pool, but perhaps that's OK if the amounts are low enough. I'm just speculating and there may be side effects in the LQ depending on what you use.

 

[duraleigh]

I think you are mixing up methods to prevent metal corrosion (i.e. sacrificial anodes) with methods to prevent scaling -- they are not the same thing.

Yeah, I understand they are not the same. I was using the sacrifical anode as an example of what I was trying to convey..........something installed in the LQ that will "attract" the calcium more than the plastic float valves.

As you say, Richard, the problem with metals is I believe the chlorine in the LQ will eat them quickly and start to deposit unwanteds into the pool.

Can you think of a material (cheap) that would suspend inside the LQ that the calcium would prefer to precipitate onto.

 

[Water_man]

Can you think of a material (cheap) that would suspend inside the LQ that the calcium would prefer to precipitate onto.

Rabbit's case is special. His calcium level is so high that it deposits everywhere, and more so in the bulk of the LQ because there the pH is high and it drives the SI to levels that promote calcium carbonate deposition.
Most people don't have calcium scaling or huge deposits at the LQ's bottom as Rabbit does. Their WS is limited mostly to the flow line, and this is the crux of the matter. The calcium salt deposits there because of the friction caused by the flow, no matter what the tubing and the other components are made of.
You can suspend inside the LQ any solid you want but the separation of the WS would start where the flow starts - at the "Out" float valve and will continue downstream.

Other than changing the chemistry as chem geek suggested, in theory you can lower the amount of WS in the flow line by keep adding calcium carbonate powder in the LQ top level's bulk.
This will cause "seeding" for precipitation. It's a possibility but obviously it's not practical.
Finally, at least two LQ users here use well water and they have no WS. Maybe their well water contains magnesium which helps prevent WS formation.

 

[chem geek]

Well, I suppose one could try adding a roughened plaster coupon into the LQ to see if it has the scale form preferentially onto it. Or perhaps some rough block of calcium carbonate (calcite crystal) hung suspended in the upper region of the LQ (above the interface layer, perhaps not far from the outlet).

Magnesium is typically found in most "hard" waters. The Calcium Hardness ppm is typically around 70% of the Total Hardness ppm, the rest being magnesium. Magnesium does interfere with the rate of formation of scale, though I do not know by how much.

 

[duraleigh]

Their WS is limited mostly to the flow line, and this is the crux of the matter. The calcium salt deposits there because of the friction caused by the flow, no matter what the tubing and the other components are made of.

Water_man,

I have not kept up with this like I should but I'm pretty sure there are two areas of concern.

1. Like mine, the WS build in the body and mechanism of the float valve and restricts the float valves movement.

2. The WS precipitates in the lines and flow valve....restricting flow.

In either case, elimination of the WS is the goal. I still think some kind of metal will be more attractive to the WS. If we can just find a metal that the very high chlorine will not destroy.

My assumption is the plates on a SWG are some exotic metal and not at all conducive for the kind of red-neck experimantation we're talking about here.

 

[Water_man]

Water_man,

I have not kept up with this like I should but I'm pretty sure there are two areas of concern.

1. Like mine, the WS build in the body and mechanism of the float valve and restricts the float valves movement.

I kept your case (float valve) in mind in all my posts re WS problems,
and I know it's an issue, although I'm not sure how common it is.


In either case, elimination of the WS is the goal.

I agree with you. A third of the users suffer from it. I've had WS right from the beginning, however, my LQ has been running flowlessly for two months now without any WS impediment. Steady she goes, chief.

I still think some kind of metal will be more attractive to the WS. If we can just find a metal that the very high chlorine will not destroy.

I don't know what your thinking about a metal is based upon. As chem geek already responded, a sacrifice anode is a totally different concept based on a totally different mechanism. To the best of my knowledge, no metal would do the job. I'll summerize for you what we know so far.
Based on the chemical composition of the water solution at the top of the LQ one can predict if calcium might deposit, but it's not certain. The uncertain part is based on kinetics - under what conditions would the super-saturated solution of calcium carbonate will start crystallization. Flow does the job, as we all know. Fine particles suspended everywhere may also do the job, but it hasn't been proven yet and the efficiency is unknown.

Until we find a new solution you should try changing the water chemistry:
lower pH to 7.2 and add borates as mentioned before.
If you add borates and it doesn't help it won't be a total loss, because of the other benefits of borates.

My assumption is the plates on a SWG are some exotic metal and not at all conducive for the kind of red-neck experimantation we're talking about here.

The chemical composition of the solution between the SWG plates is so different than that the LQ's so any comparison is worthless. Moreoever, over there an electrolysis is going on - it's a different world.

 

[chem geek]

The reason that calcium carbonate deposits on the SWG cathode where hydrogen gas is produced is that this makes the area around this plate very high in pH and that causes calcium carbonate to precipitate there (on the plate where it is highest in pH). It has little to do with the fact that it's a metal plate except being a surface, but rather is a side effect of the electrolysis that makes the pH near the plate much higher.

 

[Rabbit]

I did confirm, well within reason that something is removing the calcium from my water. My CH @ last reading was 360 down from 400 when I started to use the LQ. This could be coincidence, but we've not had any rain to speak of and my water bill is not abnormal. So the calcium is going someplace. The massive amount of sludge forming on the bottom of my LQ I assume is not all salt...well I hope it's not at least. Guess time will tell. I can use to loose a bit more calcium in any case.