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Thread: Limit to how much sequestrant?

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    Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Hi,

    We've got well water with a lot of metals in it. We went through a LOT of Vitamin C last year.........

    Our pool is a small above ground pool, and Intex metal frame 15 ft x 48inches. About 4400 gallons. I put in an entire bottle of Aqua-Chem's Stain and Scale preventative in it. The bottle said that one bottle would treat 10,000 gallons. But when I turned on the SWG..........it all turned brown again. Should I try a different brand of sequestrant? Should I put in more of the same stuff? How much is too much? Is there an upper limit to adding sequestrant?

    *off to the store to get more powdered Vit. C..........*
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    It is possible to use too much sequestrant, but you are no where near doing that. The standard dosage of sequestrant is good for about 1 ppm of metals. If you metals level is higher you need more sequestrant.

    If you haven't recently, you should read the ascorbic acid treatment instructions. You don't normally need any more ascorbic acid, adding more sequestrant will normally lift brand new stains.

    Also, you need to raise your FC very slowly. There is some risk the SWG will raise the FC level too quickly. Start with the SWG set to a much lower percentage than you usually use and work your way up slowly.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Thank you. I purchased some Metal Free. I will try that and will follow your directions and those you linked to.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by VaEquestrian
    Thank you. I purchased some Metal Free. I will try that and will follow your directions and those you linked to.
    Metal Free is EDTA based and is not as effective as the HEDP based ones. Look for Jack's Magic, GLB Sequa-Sol, or Proteam Metal Magic instead.

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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Unfortunately, we have ONE pool store in town. At that, I live 40 minutes from town, up in the mountains......The only other option was Aqua-Chem's Stain and Scale Remover from Wal-Mart or Lowe's.

    I've just put in the Vit. C. How long should I wait to add the Metal Free? After I add it, I should let the filter run for 24 hours, right?
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Why on earth I told you it was Metal Free, I don't know. I think I'm losing my mind.....it's the second week of riding camp (I teach horseback riding) and in the middle of haying season, and in between I've got regular lessons.......I probably shouldn't even be allowed to type, lol.

    Anyway, what I bought is BioGuard's Pool Magnet Plus.

    Is that any better?
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by VaEquestrian
    Anyway, what I bought is BioGuard's Pool Magnet Plus.

    Is that any better?
    that IS one of the good ones, it is HEDP. Put the sequesterant in the water about 1 hour after adding the ascorbic acid. Use 1/2 to 1 lb of ascorbic acid per 10k gal and 1 to 2 qts of sequesterant per 10k gal depending on how bad the staining is.
    Run the filter 24/7 until the water clears (it might get very cloudy) and you have started to bring up the TA if it crashed.

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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Okay, it's been a couple of hours after we put in the ascorbic acid. Chlorine is pretty much non-existent, but he PH is still higher than 7.2. It's at 7.6 now. It was at 8.0 before we turned on the SWG and was about 7.8 when we added the ascorbic acid.

    That needs to come down 7.2 before adding the Pool Magnet Plus, right? We need to add muriatic acid to bring it down, correct?
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    I added Muriatic Acid and brought the PH down to 7.2 in the evening. Then we added the sequestriant the next morning.

    After about 36 hours, the pool is still a bit cloudy and we have went through two filters. Should I wait to add bleach and start bringing the FC up until all the cloudiness is gone, or can I start adding the bleach? I don't want to turn the the SWG for fear of raising the FC too high too quickly.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Okay, well...........


    Making our best guess here, since there haven't been any answers to my recent questions, we went on an added some bleach since the kids would like to use the pool soon........even though it was still a cloudy. I hope that will work okay.

    PH is now about 6.8, I hope that is okay for adding the bleach.....

    We would like to add some borax to the water too, maybe it will stabilize the PH that was previously high (from the SWG, I think, or maybe the aeration-- have a return jet that shoots up a bit).

    I think I read somewhere that borax raises PH, so I hope that is right and will bring the PH back up. I don't know when to add the borax. Maybe after the FC stays up for a bit, maybe while we're bringing up the FC levels? We could try to make a best guess on which one, if there are no replies here......
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Read this:
    ascorbic-treatment-to-rid-pool-of-metal-stains-t2298.html
    It should answer just about all your questions.

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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Okay, we've got the FC up to 2.6 now and no staining so far. We are going to hold that at that level with bleach today and make sure that it does not start turning brown again. I'm going to add some 20 Mule Team Borax today. The pool calculator says that we need to add 259 oz of Borax for our little 4400 gallon pool. Is this right? 16 pounds seems like a LOT of Borax.........did I do the calculation correctly? I entered 0 in the first field for borates and then entered 50 for the target. If I understand correctly, I need to add half of the Borax (with MA) first, wait a bit, then add the other half, correct?
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Don't add anywhere near that much borax at one time. Raise the PH very slowly over several days, or just leave the PH alone and let it drift up on it's own over a longer period. Rapid PH increases can redeposit the stains. Slow PH increases give you time to add more sequestrant at the first sign of the stains returning.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    That is the total amount I need, eventually, though, right?

    So, maybe add just one box now?
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    If you are adding borax to get borates in the pool and are starting at zero borates currently then you have the right total amount of borax. The problem is that right now you have just added sequestrant and even the very short duration PH swings from adding borates will cause problems for the sequestrant in the first several days. Unless you are using a premixed PH neutral form of borates, which is much more expensive, you should give the sequestrant about two weeks to stabilize before adding borates.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    OH.............thanks! I'll wait on that, then. Two weeks.

    My husband wanted me to ask.........After we added the sequestrant, the pool filters (cartridges) became gummed up with "stuff" that would not hose off. The filters were very heavy, much more so than normal, and the water flow was reduced. We had to change the cartridges twice.

    If I understand correctly, the sequestrant does not cause anything to be filtered out, but rather "coats" the metals to protect them from the Chlorine which will cause them to rust. I know there are chemicals called flocculants and whatnot that supposedly allow particles to be filtered out, but I understand that those aren't really worth anything. So, if the sequestrant did not actually cause the metals to be filtered out, any idea as to what WAS filtered out? Because something was, it was pretty evident on the filters.

    After two cartridges, it is now back to what it used to be, with the filters not getting clogged up and anything that is on them is hosable.
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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by VaEquestrian
    OH.............thanks! I'll wait on that, then. Two weeks.

    My husband wanted me to ask.........After we added the sequestrant, the pool filters (cartridges) became gummed up with "stuff" that would not hose off. The filters were very heavy, much more so than normal, and the water flow was reduced. We had to change the cartridges twice.

    If I understand correctly, the sequestrant does not cause anything to be filtered out, but rather "coats" the metals to protect them from the Chlorine which will cause them to rust. I know there are chemicals called flocculants and whatnot that supposedly allow particles to be filtered out, but I understand that those aren't really worth anything. So, if the sequestrant did not actually cause the metals to be filtered out, any idea as to what WAS filtered out? Because something was, it was pretty evident on the filters.

    After two cartridges, it is now back to what it used to be, with the filters not getting clogged up and anything that is on them is hosable.
    As you bring up the chlorine you might be precipitating the metals out of solution. It doesn't always happen but when it does it will reduce the amount of metal in your water.
    Also the sequesterant can combine with the calcium in your water (calcium is a metal!) and precipitate out as calcium phosphonate.
    Are you using the Intex carts (which are not really cleanable but need to be replaced) or have you bought a pair of third party polyester carts from Unicel, Pleatco, or Aladdin/Worldpool? If you have the polyester carts they can be cleaned over and over again and can be soaked in a5 gal bucket of water to which 1 cup of Cascade, Electrosol, or other automatic dishwasher POWDER has been added. Soak overnight and then hose off. This won't work with the Intex carts, btw. If you normally need to hose off the cart weekly then soak it monthly. This is why you want 2 of the polyester carts. You just change them out when needed and hose off or soak the dirty one.

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    Re: Limit to how much sequestrant?

    Quote Originally Posted by waterbear
    Quote Originally Posted by VaEquestrian
    OH.............thanks! I'll wait on that, then. Two weeks.

    My husband wanted me to ask.........After we added the sequestrant, the pool filters (cartridges) became gummed up with "stuff" that would not hose off. The filters were very heavy, much more so than normal, and the water flow was reduced. We had to change the cartridges twice.

    If I understand correctly, the sequestrant does not cause anything to be filtered out, but rather "coats" the metals to protect them from the Chlorine which will cause them to rust. I know there are chemicals called flocculants and whatnot that supposedly allow particles to be filtered out, but I understand that those aren't really worth anything. So, if the sequestrant did not actually cause the metals to be filtered out, any idea as to what WAS filtered out? Because something was, it was pretty evident on the filters.

    After two cartridges, it is now back to what it used to be, with the filters not getting clogged up and anything that is on them is hosable.
    As you bring up the chlorine you might be precipitating the metals out of solution. It doesn't always happen but when it does it will reduce the amount of metal in your water.
    Also the sequesterant can combine with the calcium in your water (calcium is a metal!) and precipitate out as calcium phosphonate.
    Are you using the Intex carts (which are not really cleanable but need to be replaced) or have you bought a pair of third party polyester carts from Unicel, Pleatco, or Aladdin/Worldpool? If you have the polyester carts they can be cleaned over and over again and can be soaked in a5 gal bucket of water to which 1 cup of Cascade, Electrosol, or other automatic dishwasher POWDER has been added. Soak overnight and then hose off. This won't work with the Intex carts, btw. If you normally need to hose off the cart weekly then soak it monthly. This is why you want 2 of the polyester carts. You just change them out when needed and hose off or soak the dirty one.
    I don't know if they are polyester or not....the label doesn't say. We bought the replacement ones from Wal-Mart. It has "SandNSun" on the label, and what filter pump models it works with.

    Normally, we can hose them off and the are nearly white again and we can do that several times before needing to replace it (we've never tried to soak them).
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