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Thread: Way out of bounds and not sure where to start (5PH?)

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    Way out of bounds and not sure where to start (5PH?)

    I just tested a friends pool and don't know what I should work on 1st. He uses HTH Dual action pucks (Trichloro-s-Triazinetrione with copper) for chlorine. I have the Taylor K2006 test kit.

    FC 0
    CC 0
    PH 5 or so (I had to test with my aquarium kit to verify this low)
    TA 0 (best I can tell because the green drops turn pink instantly)
    CH 150
    CYA 100+

    I have been running my pool on the BBB for 2 years and never had anything crazy like this and I double checked my numbers. Thought the TC may have been too high to measure but diluted with distilled water all the way to 5 to 1 and nothing. Did the same with TA.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
    Cliff


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    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

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    1. Drain 1/2 the pool and refill

    2. Test CYA, if it's still above 60, drain again.

    3. Test pH and add Borax to get to 7.2

    4. Test and adjust Alk with baking soda

    5. Get some sodium Hypochlorite in the pool...around 5ppm, at least.

    6. Throw those pucks as far as you can throw them....they're what caused the problems
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Hey, Clifftex,

    Almost forgot to acknowledge your fame as the last person to ever register over at PF.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    HAHAHAH!

    Yep, I emailed back and forth with Ben trying to get registered and after the 4th attempt it finally happened. And again he shut down the new registrations. Its kinda funny to see my name in that spot for so long.

    Anyway, I know the pucks have caused all of this but what is so far out of whack to make all this happen? Is it no ALK or what?
    Cliff


    16x26 AGP
    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

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    Pucks have a pH of around 4.9, I think, maybe lower. They also constantly add CYA to the pool. The Alk will move down with the pH as puck after puck is thrown into the pool.....constantly worsening the problem.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Hey CliffTex, I KNEW your name looked familiar!

    Welcome
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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    pH of trichlor is closer to 2 so it's like adding acid all the tiem. I am going to assume that this person NEVER added any baking soda to keep the TA up. If they had the TA and pH would not have been so low. I am also going to assume that they have a cartridge filter since the CYA is so high. Also, I will bet that there are measurable levels of copper in the water from the HTH "dual action" garbage. It contains copper sulfate as algaecide.

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    Hey thanks for the warm welcomes over here! Fortunately since I use the BBB system I never have any problems so you guys don't see much of me. I bought a liquidator last year and the pool has been less trouble than ever before.

    Waterbear, you must have ESP of some sort. He does have a cartridge filter and nothing but the pucks have been used. I'm going to the pool store today to test for copper because I am sure there is a buildup. My friend thinks since there is no algea that everything is good so I have a little education to help him with on pool maintenance.

    Thanks again for all your kindness!
    Cliff


    16x26 AGP
    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Get some baking soda in there right away. Raising the TA will allow you to get some control over the PH. You only need a little TA to start. Do this soon to stop the damage from low PH.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. Back To Top    #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CliffTex

    Waterbear, you must have ESP of some sort. He does have a cartridge filter and nothing but the pucks have been used.
    Nope, I just understand pools.

    I'm going to the pool store today to test for copper because I am sure there is a buildup. My friend thinks since there is no algea that everything is good so I have a little education to help him with on pool maintenance.
    Don't worry about the copper if it is .1 ppm or less. It really won't cause any problems (or kill any algae) at that low a level. If it is above .2 ppm then get some Proteam Metal Magic or Jack's Magic Blue Stuff in there and use a maintenance dose on a regular basis, every 1-4 weeks dependng on how high the copper actually is.
    Thanks again for all your kindness!
    If the pH is 5 I would put in 1 lb of soda ash (Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda) per 10000 gallons predissolved in a bucket of pool water with pump runing, brush the pool walls to mix the water, wait about 30-40 minutes and then test the pH. Repeat until the pH is above 7.0. This will also raise your TA and will take a LOT less then if you try and use baking soda and borax to do this. I estimate you will need about 3-4 lbs per 10000 gallons to get the pH up.

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    I'm not sure of the sequence in this case.

    Since CYA is already problematic (requiring drain and refill) and since this condition has been in this pool for months (at the very least) it would seem logical to me to drain it 50 % first, fill it back up, then test and adjust chemistry. The fill water alone should raise the pH and Alk......just probably not enough. You'll use a lot less chemistry and an extra 24 hours or so of that low pH is not gonna make much difference.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    IMHO, if the pH is truly 5.0 then raising it is first priority! Washing soda is a cheap chemical at the grocery store. Second step would be drain and refill.

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    Well,

    I have managed to bring the PH up with a combination of Borax(4lb) and Baking Soda (6lb). However, it appears the acidity has managed to destroy his pool liner. The pool is only 2 years old and the liner feels like 150 grit sand paper. The skimmer basket is falling to pieces too.

    The first year he (and I) used Baquacil and of course had many problems. He drained and went to pucks and I went to BBB. I thought he had a pool boy but he never monitored his water and just used pucks. I wish I would have offered to test his water sooner so I could have helped him avoid these problems.

    Now it looks like some equipment has to be replaced and for sure a new liner. I'm going to advise him that he should replace the liner ASAP before he has a blowout and loses his base. Any other advice you guys would recommend?

    Thanks
    Cliff


    16x26 AGP
    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

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    If he's had a long-term algae problem that could have affected the liner. I have experienced a condition where the algae left a gritty feel to the liner. two weeks of chlorine took it off.

    May not be the case but I thought I'd pass it along.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    If he has a heater with a copper heat exchange coil the heater is probably in bad shape and the copper level in the pool could be significantly high.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    No A/C or heater in his pool. Nor did he have any algae problem. I think the high PH must have caused the etching of the liner after a year of exposure.
    Cliff


    16x26 AGP
    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

  17. Back To Top    #17

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    Today

    FC 17
    CC 1
    PH 7.0-7.2
    TA 80
    CYA 120

    These were after the pool was shocked last night. Although I never got the FC up to 45 shock levels like recommended, he had never shocked the pool so the least I could do was bring it up to where the water was close to sanitized levels. Last night FC was around 30. Anyway, a new problem has come up where the HUGE cartridge filter is getting clogged in 24 hours. The water looks clear so what do you guys think could be clogging the filter?
    Cliff


    16x26 AGP
    Jacuzzi DE Filter
    1HP 2-SP Hayward

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    The water looks clear so what do you guys think could be clogging the filter?
    Almost certainly algae. It is not uncommon for a decent looking pool to do that when you put in a sudden dose of chlorine.

    Actually, I can think of no other cause so algae is almost the default answer
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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