CYA 80-100 w/ FC target at 9...is 9 safe for toddlers???

[lka674]

If you can smell the chlorine and it bothers your skin, most likely it is CC. CC reading higher than 0.5 ppm means you need to do the shocking process.

What is your CC level?

Quick question though...the bleach caused this soapy bubble reaction from my spa's spillway when it hit the pool water...is that normal with bleach?

No, this is not normal and might be a sign you have algae.


Urgh!!! Frustrating! Hence the reason why I'm learning all of this myself.....time to take matters into my own hands!

My test kit does not test CC, I'm leaving shortly to go pick up one that does. Will test and see where we are, start the shocking process if necessary and will perform an OCLT.

We DID have some visible algae about 2 weeks ago and my husband had our pool service add an algaecide, which did eliminate what we were seeing on the walls and the slight greenish hue. Since adding that, the pool "looks" really good....I would even say crystal clear....even though our other numbers seem to be jacked up.

Back later with results. Would you recommend the bleach OVER liquid chlorine in ALL circumstances? I have either AND I also have Cal-Hypo 73% and Potassium Peroxymonosulfate oxidizing shock.....long story, but after a large group of swimmers last weekend our pool looked worse than it EVER has and really cloudy so hubby was "advised" to use BOTH of those powder shocks (likely an upsale for them)...did make the pool look great, but what our pool chemistry has been maintained at for the last 2 years STILL isn't accurate....point is....I've got shock product covered for whatever ya'll think is best for the process.

 

[lka674]

oh...I'm leery about the cal-hypo b/c we know we have hard water and our test numbers for hardness are always at the higher end.

 

[linen]

My test kit does not test CC, I'm leaving shortly to go pick up one that does. Will test and see where we are, start the shocking process if necessary and will perform an OCLT.

What test kit do you have?

I highly recommend you get an appropriate test kit. See this link: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison. I prefer the tf-100 more tests per kit. The TF kit can only be ordered online.

Most likely, anything you find locally will not have the FAS-DPD FC test (not to be confused with the DPD FC test) which is very important!

We DID have some visible algae about 2 weeks ago and my husband had our pool service add an algaecide

That might be the cause of you foaming, some algaecides often cause that.

Would you recommend the bleach OVER liquid chlorine in ALL circumstances?

Liquid chlorine and bleach are basically the same thing just at different concentrations...bleach is usually 6% sodium hypochlorite and Liquid chlorine is usually 10 or 12.5% sodium hypochlorite. Both work great and are the best choice during shocking.

 

[lka674]

Thanks...back soon. My current test kit is just the simple Taylor DPD FC kit.

One other thing...WHY is it that some people disagree with the higher target shock levels and the higher target FC levels when CyA is high? I've been told in the past that it's all controversial and there are proponents on both sides and no one knows who is right??? Really and why?

 

[jblizzle]

Who are disagreeing with the high levels? Pool stores? They seem to lack an understanding of the CYA/FC relationship ... our ignite it to make more money.

Chem Geek is the expert. Trust what you find here. It simply works.

Ask specifically for the FAS-DPD test. They may think you are crazy for wanting it or not know what you are taking about. Finding locally is rare so you likely have to order it.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[chem geek]

FYI, the author of that paper is Richard Falk, known as "chem geek" who is a "special contributor" on this forum and some of the Chlorine/cya chart in pool school is his work (along with a lot of other stuff on here).

I was aware of that. I didn't think I had to re-credit him for the link since it went directly to his paper and not just an unidentifiable excerpt.

Chem Geek is the expert. Trust what you find here. It simply works.

I think the question of attribution was not related to credit, but to be clear that the paper was not from a separate independent source. As for the chlorine / CYA relationship, this is chemistry that has been well understood since at least 1974. It isn't something I discovered. It's just unfortunate that the chemical manufacturers and pool/spa companies and distributors have chosen not to disclose the information. Heck, they don't even disclose the simple most basic chemical rules:

For every 10 ppm Free Chlorine (FC) added by Trichlor, it also increases Cyanuric Acid (CYA) by 6 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor, it also increases CYA by 9 ppm.
For every 10 ppm FC added by Cal-Hypo, it also increases Calcium Hardness (CH) by at least 7 ppm.

The industry mantra for decades is that "CYA doesn't matter; only FC matters" so that Trichlor and Dichlor could continue to be sold along with all the algaecides, clarifiers, flocculants, phosphate removers, enzymes and other products. If everyone were to use chlorinating liquid or bleach instead, such sales would drop dramatically. The fact is that Trichlor is convenient due to its higher concentration so less weight to carry and to its slow-dissolving nature when in pucks/tabs. There wouldn't be an integrity problem if such benefits were disclosed along with the CYA build-up side effects and various ways of dealing with that whether it be maintaining the FC/CYA ratio, diluting CYA through partial drain/refill, or use of supplemental products to prevent algae growth.

Note that though the EPA limits FC levels to 4 ppm for pools and 5 ppm for spas so you will never see labeling of chlorine products saying anything higher than that. Commercial/public pools are regulated by county/state and several have FC limits higher than the EPA limit including New York at 5 ppm, Texas at 8 ppm, and Florida at 10 ppm. Unfortunately, no county/state reg accounts for the FC/CYA relationship so commercial/public pools that don't use CYA (all of them in New York and most indoor pools in all states) so the active chlorine level is much, much higher than it needs to be for proper disinfection because there is no CYA to moderate its strength. This results in much faster oxidation of swimsuits, skin and hair, faster corrosion of equipment, faster creation of disinfection by-products, faster outgassing of chlorine, etc.

 

[lka674]

Thanks! This is just what I needed for the naysayers!

So....WEIRDNESS and confusion now...

Yesterday, my tests revealed (albeit in much more sun than we have today) the following:

FC = 1 (this is up from 0 this a.m) when I added approx 112 oz of liquid chlorine
TC = 1
pH = 7.5 (this is AFTER I added approx 48 oz of muriatic acid this a.m)...it was WAY up....
TA = 100
CH = 450??? This is very subjective on my part b/c it was hard to tell b/w purple and blue, but I will say we live in a very HARD water area and we have to use a water softener for our home......
CYA = 80

After this testing, which was done around 6pm, I added 250 oz of household 6% bleach.

We got in it about 3 hours later and the FC/TC was 5+ on my weak Taylor Total DPD kit and the less than accurate test strips said it was somewhere between 5-10ppm. I felt we were good to go and the pool looked sparkling clear. When in though, the smell was intense for ME and it did bother my skin, but neither my husband or daughter mentioned it bothering them. Someone suggested possible algae right? The only way I have to know that though is to perform an OCLT with a FAS-DPD kit, which I don't have at the moment, but HAVE ordered. Today, I have not been in it, but the fumes are not as bad....but look at this:

Just now:

FC = 5+ on DPD somewhere between 5 and 10 on a strip
TC = same
pH = 7.5-7.8
TA = 120
CyA = 70-80 (and it could have been 70-80 yst too)
CH = 380-400
And the pool is murky looking to me....definitely not sparkling like yesterday.

So....is it (the darker murky water) b/c the TA drove up the pH ever so slightly? Could it be algae as someone mentioned earlier as being the reason I smelled and felt the bleach yesterday, but am not bothered by it today?

Not sure what I should do. Hubby wants me to dump oxidizing shock....he likes the sparkle effect. However I see no reason to go through any shocking "process" (see....I'm learning) when the numbers seem ok there b/w the FC & CyA. Do I do it anyway....just to be safe that it's NOT algae making it look a bit murky.

And as far as the pH and TA goes, I think it was high b/c I tested earlier in the day today than yesterday...does that still warrant me adding "some" acid? Part of me says to just let it be, but won't it just keep going up as the day progresses?

Sorry for all the questions! Things will be easier once I get that FAS-DPD kit....I hope!

 

[jblizzle]

wait for the kit. The smell is usually CC which you can not measure.

When you get the kit check the FC and CC and do an OCLT. If the CC is high or you fail the OCLT. Then you need to go through the shock process.

Don't put magic powder in the pool.

Oh and the TA and pH do not affect the water clarity generally.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[lka674]

Magic powder....like it!

If my FC and TC are equal, doesn't that automatically make my CC Zero? I know that I can't get to the "exact number", but I can say that the TC reagent does not affect the FC color at all...which makes me think they are equal regardless that it won't show me over 5 ppm. Is this not accurate?

Do you personally prefer the K-2006 or the TC1000? Not that it matters, just curious.

Finally....weather and testing/treating pool. So....if I KNOW it's gonna storm tonight or even for the next couple of days....is it safe to say just hold off b/c the rain's gonna mess with any adjusting I do daily anyway and then just know I'm gonna have to bring that baby up to shock level as soon as the weather clears??

Thanks again! This forum has been my sanity saver.

 

[jblizzle]

Yes your discussion of CC sounds correct. You may not have any.

While the TF100 is s little more expensive, you get a lot more of the reagents actually needed. A member here designed and sells the kit. The link in my signature shows the comparison.

Even with storms, it is best to try to stay on top of the levels. Maybe bump the FC up at a minimum.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[lka674]

Thanks...that's the one I got and the Speedstir just to make it more exciting! ;-)
It's gonna take a week or better to get the kit though.....so I'll just keep trying to manage based upon the numbers I know I need to target and my best attempt to test with the basic kit that I have.

Again....MUCHAS GRACIAS for all of your help! And everyone else that chimed in as well!

Laura

 

[lka674]

So I lied about not hearing from me for awhile... Sorry!
So I got the pool cal app and it advised me to add 67 oz of muriatic acid to bring the pH down to 7.1ish to reduce our TA down to 90, so I did. Then it said if pool is murky to error on side of caution, so I added 29 oz of liq chlorine to bring the FC up to about 9 (our cya is 70)....
I run our waterfall pretty much all day bc if not, our pool temp rises with the heat here in tx and 3 wks ago it was at 93 degrees!! Anyhow, I know to aerate to bring the pH back up and will continue to...but when is it safe for an adult and then a toddler to get in?

 

[supertune]

So I lied about not hearing from me for awhile... Sorry!
So I got the pool cal app and it advised me to add 67 oz of muriatic acid to bring the pH down to 7.1ish to reduce our TA down to 90, so I did. Then it said if pool is murky to error on side of caution, so I added 29 oz of liq chlorine to bring the FC up to about 9 (our cya is 70)....
I run our waterfall pretty much all day bc if not, our pool temp rises with the heat here in tx and 3 wks ago it was at 93 degrees!! Anyhow, I know to aerate to bring the pH back up and will continue to...but when is it safe for an adult and then a toddler to get in?

Without knowing where the CC's are... that is the indicator of how sanitary the water is.
So HAPPY :-D for you getting the TF-100 kit (very smart)
Don't stress, I know about kids wanting in the pool!
Once you have this kit, test and learn this will be very elementary soon.
This is what you have to look forward to: