[UPD 3/22/2008] Pool Neglected - For a long time...

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Bleach doesn't really raise the PH. When you put the bleach in it will raise the PH but then when the chlorine gets used up the PH will come back down again. With TA that high the PH should drift up again on it's own as long as there isn't to much trichlor pulling it down.
 
So I go out to my pool today and it's clear blue as it was yesterday. Looks great, but perhaps there's a slight green tinge. I've been reading about metals so I am going to test that. My water is sparkling, it's inviting and despite the cold temperatures I feel like I want to jump in. But there's one nagging problem. It eats chlorine. No matter how much chlorine I put in it eats it, and fast. Last night I put in 5 jugs (also known as $12.50!) of the 182oz ultra bleach. That should have brought it to 27ish. I came out 2 hours later to check the level and it's maybe 1 with CC off the scale. I did try to dilute to make sure the sampe wasn't getting bleached but I suppose I could have done the dilution wrong. Am I right though in assuming that if I had the DPD 3 reagent to check for TC and it changes color I have a problem period? i.e. if 1 and 2 are getting bleached out, would 3 still make a huge difference?

Assuming that my test procedures are right and that my pool just has a voracious appetite for chlorine. I think I may know why. Mustard algae. There are these same 2 spots where the wall curves near the deep end that keep getting these brown blotches on them. They're very small - maybe the size of a penny - and when I carefully approach them with the brush they dust up like dirt. For every description or picture I've seen of mustard algae, I would assume that's what this is. This reappeared the last couple of days but the pool wasn't really clear clear until yesterday. It was perfectly spotless last night so I know there's no remaining silt to settle down in. I also brushed last night when I dosed it so I'm sure I stirred it up.

So you have super high chlorine demand, high CC and brown dusty things that keep reappearing? It looks to me like the writing is on the wall - polyquat 60, phosfree and an absolute ton of chlorine... :(

I have pics of the spots but they're so small I doubt anyone will be able to identify much about them.

I also notice my test kit is Taylor K-2005 rather than 2006. Does that make a difference? Is it old? - maybe too old?
 
Piku,

This post is gonna' be harsh. My point in this is not to be a know-it-all but to get your pool clear and keep it that way

It will be helpful to you to read ALL the stickies. Chlorine is consumed by TWO things (and ONLY these two things).....organics in your pool (lot's of them...not just a little spot of mustard algae) or Sunlight if you have no CYA in your pool. Putting polyquat 60 and phosfree in your pool will have little, if any, affect on your chlorine consumption.

I believe (not sure) the K-2005 has no CYA test. What is your current CYA level? Unless it's greater than 20 and preferably 40-60, you have no chance of holding chlorine in the pool.

You are doing a lot of guessing at what your problem is and, without a complete set of tests to include CYA, we have been willing accomplices and guessing right along with you.

You are VERY close to having nice pool water but I believe you are missing some basic knowledge that will allow you to keep your pool spotless the rest of the Summer. You will find that knowledge in the stickies.

If you don't have any, get some CYA in the pool pronto. Assuming your pool is still not laden with organics (even tho it's clear) your chlorine consumption will drop DRAMATICALLY.

My apologies for shouting in caps........I hope you will take this post with the good intentions in which it was written.....you need to do some more homework.
 
You need to be very careful at this point. One possibility is that the chlorine is getting used up and turned into CC but it is also possible that the FC reading is bleaching out and the TC reading is not bleaching out. In the second case your FC level would have to be very very high, which could be a problem.

It would be a huge help to have the FAS-DPD chlorine test, which doesn't have this problem and provides reliable numbers up to at least 50 ppm FC. You can get the FAS-DPD test by its self from TF Test Kits and from Taylor.

One approach to check for bleaching out is to dilute the sample four to one, one part pool water and four parts distilled water. In a 9 ml sample vial that would be 1.8 ml of pool water and then fill to 9 ml with distilled water. You don't have to use distilled water for the dilution, but it has to be water without any chlorine and distilled water is the most reliable source. You measure the FC level in the diluted sample and multiply the result by five. If the sample remains clear even with the dilution, watch carefully as the initial drops hit the sample. When they are bleaching out they will normally turn red for just a moment as they start to mix and then go clear.
 
Okay, to both of you I understand your frustration. I am new to this but I have been reading the stickies and these forums (with pretty much ALL of my free time, I'm obsessed!) and have been trying to do everything right. Right Thing(tm) number 1 I tried to do: Taylor K-2005 has FAS-DPD for chlorine. I've read the testing stickies and I've read and follow the manual. I also was criticized for being too careful with the chlorine... Hit it hard, bring it to 25. I kept getting low numbers so I kept hitting it hard. Even after the pool was cleared I still have TC that doesn't match FC on my kit. So as to the education that goes on around here you tend to think you still have organics, ammonia, etc.

I've been suspecting my kit pretty much since I got started and today I took the water to Leslie's and now I'm fairly sure. 1. after describing to them the spots they seem convinced it's not mustard algae - primarily because it's on none of the walls, only on the curves so they think it's more dirt settling off of the walls after brushing.

Let's recap. My numbers:
FC .5-1
CC 5+
PH 7.0
TA 175
CH 375
CYA 90

Now I tested everything multiple times. I tested different dilutions on the chlorine test. I'm suspicious so I've been going to great lengths to ensure I've been doing the tests accurately.

Pool store numbers:
FC 5
TC 5
PH 6.8
TA 130
CH 220
CYA 30
TDS 1000
copper/iron 0/0
Phosphates 300
Nitrate 2
Nitrite 0

Now when they did the FC test, I watched them like a hawk. Their TAYLOR reagents caused almost immediately a blood red color - VERY different from what my identical TAYLOR reagents did. A color which I haven't gotten from the FC or TC test. I mean DARK. I also saw when they did the CH test the blue turned purple almost immediately (bleaching?)

I don't want anyone to worry about being harsh with me. For one I do a lot of pontificating or guessing without acting immediately. I almost always wait to hear back from several people before agreeing with an assessment - mostly because I am new to this. I did test the CYA shortly after that post. I was going to edit it to include it but forgot about that. Sorry. Taking a guess and assessing how right or wrong you were is the way to become an expert IMHO.

So Leslies suggests that everything is okay (except my test kit maybe). My FC held way high overnight and the pool water looks delicious. My temptation is to just be happy with I have, filter and leave some trichlor tabs in the floater but I feel I need to explore the accuracy of my test kit a bit or maybe just buy a new one. This is a K-2005 I bought from lincoln aquatics over the winter. It was strangely cheap. I think $36... I thought I was getting a good deal - it does FC, TC, CH, TA, CYA, etc.

Any advice appreciated, thanks :)

Pic today:

330_final.JPG


Mustard algae?

330_mustard1.JPG


330_mustard2.JPG
 
The Taylor K-2005 has the DPD chlorine test, drops of liquid are added to turn the water various shades of red and then compared to a color standard. The Taylor K-2006 has the FAS-DPD chlorine test, power is added to turn the water pink and then drops are added one at a time till the water turns clear.

High chlorine levels can change the colors you get on the TA and CH tests, but the color change should still happen at the same place it usually does, ie the tests still work even through the colors are different.

Even a very serious case of mustard algae couldn't possibly cause the chlorine demand you describe. Mustard algae tends to persist through high chlorine levels but it does that by hiding from the chlorine, thus having a very low chlorine demand, until the chlorine level comes down again.

Test kits should have a good through date somewhere. Often test kits that are about to expire are sold at a deep discount.

The way you describe the pool store chlorine test it seems likely to me that the actual FC level is well above 5 and they simply didn't bother to try and figure out what it really was.

The pool store test shows nitrate. Stores don't usually test for nitrate, that is more commonly done for ponds. I am not sure if it can be trusted or not, but it would help explain things. Nitrate can cause extreme chlorine demand even in clear water. Nitrates usually come from fertilizer and can take extreme amounts of chlorine to clear up.

Nothing, nothing!, can substitute for reliable water testing! Occasionally you may find a good pool store, but more often than not pool stores are very inconsistent in their water testing. I am not at all surprised that their numbers are different from yours and I wouldn't automatically believe their numbers over yours. You need to get a reliable chlorine test, which means a FAS-DPD test. If I were you I would get the full TF Test Kit, but at the very minimum you need a new FAS-DPD test. There is no better investment you can make in your pool.
 
As usual,Jason's input is very inciteful. I would've missed the nitrates completely but that could certainly account for much of your high chlorine loss.

So, of the two things that consume chlorine (sunlight and organics) we can pretty much conclude that you have been killing organics because you do have some CYA protection (from the sun) based on the readings both you and Leslie's got. Now, if your CYA test of 90 is correct, (and I suspect it is) please do not use any more pucks to chlorinate your pool......they will only add more CYA and 90 is already too high.

I have to be careful touting test kits because of the obvious conflict of interest but I'm gonna' use Jason's words to reemphasize just how important a good test kit really is.
Nothing, nothing!, can substitute for reliable water testing!
Click to expand...

My TF-100 kit and the Taylor K-2006 are the two preferred here on the forum. As most everyone knows, mine is repackaged Taylor chemistry that I attempt to put in more meaningful quantities to the end user.....in short, I think you'll end up being able to get more tests from mine (per dollar spent) than with the K-2006.

After all the above, your pool water looks terrific and is probably more sanitized than most of the pools in the US. You're very close to getting it just right. Be cautious using the pucks until you determine exactly where your CYA really is.
 
Hrmm. Well I'll consider my options as far as test kits go and I'll keep my FC at 3-4, filter 8-10 hours a day and vacuum/brush once a week and see how things go for now. We'll see if I really got everything or not when i get a proper chlorine test (or if it all comes back). But this thread - getting my pool crystal clear blue is officially closed and I wanted to thank all of you for your help :)
 

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Piku, it sure is scary what you've been going through. Just be strong and you'll emerge victoriuos and with a loadfull of pool knowledge. You are not alone.....everybody is following you closely.

I am new here and like you, been reading the stickies hundereds of times but it seems like I need to shock my brain too as something is really eating up all the sticky knowledges. I printed all the stickies, carry around with me most of the time to read whenever possible. Very soon I my need to reprint because they are getting worn out but I think I am starting to win the war. I am just lucky enough not to start with your kind of disaster.

All my dear gurus, we beginers are mostly very hardworking students reading the stickies but they are hard to stick to our brains and when they did, got stuck everywhere and cannot find the right one. Perhaps you should devise a sticky to stick the stickies in the proper order :lol: :lol: .

Thanks gurus for your persistency to excel us :-D :-D :-D .

Vincent.
 
Perhaps you should devise a sticky to stick the stickies in the proper order.
Click to expand...
Well, that's it for me....I hereby nominate Vincent for Member of the Year!! That is not only very funny, but very inciteful as well.

By the way, Vincent, your pool is as graceful as any I've seen. You have a nice eye for design and the workmanship and attention to detail make it very pleasant to look at. Thanks for sharing
 
I'm operating under the assumption that my test kit is right (I realized I have a K-2005C which is the service complete with huge bottles :p) for everything but chlorine. I will do some more analysis between local pool stores and my readings and I should be able to start to figure out what's right and wrong here. It would appear I have a main drain leak. I get air in when I turn on the main drain valve and to make matters worse, when I turn it off I see a bunch of air bubbles come up. Now how on earth would air get all the way down there? And it keeps doing it which makes me thing it's not just remnants from winterization. Since I believe everything but chlorine is right I ordered the trouble free FAS-DPD chlorine test, and I plan to get the OTO kit from walmart for day to day. That should get me through the summer. Next spring I'll uy the TF100
 
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