Maybe you should run the bucket test again too, for a longer amount of time. 1/4" sounds normal, but above you said you had no loss in the bucket but 3/8"-1/2" in the pool.
leak?
- Thread starter ethany
- Start date
Today is sat. Aug. 7 and this is what I did today. I bought the plugs for the main drain. I put one plug in the good main drain to create more pressure in the clogged/bad drain. I put the compressor on main drain only, at first just a few air bubbles but as the pressure grew it created a massive amount but nothing came out of the drain, like there was no clog. I kept the compressor on for a few minutes.
Next I took the plug out of the good main drain and turned the filter on. I switched over to main drain suction only and it seemed to have worked, not many air bubbles in the pump basket. After a few min. I checked again and noticed the air bubbles returned, so i switched back over to skimmer only and it the air bubbles were gone.
So now I am left with just plugging the main drains and keeping the suction on skimmer. I will fill up the pool to my mark and see if there is any water loss tomorrow.
I just want to thank you for all the help and support you been giving me Melt in the sun, I couldn't do this without you. I appreciate it.
Next I took the plug out of the good main drain and turned the filter on. I switched over to main drain suction only and it seemed to have worked, not many air bubbles in the pump basket. After a few min. I checked again and noticed the air bubbles returned, so i switched back over to skimmer only and it the air bubbles were gone.
So now I am left with just plugging the main drains and keeping the suction on skimmer. I will fill up the pool to my mark and see if there is any water loss tomorrow.
I just want to thank you for all the help and support you been giving me Melt in the sun, I couldn't do this without you. I appreciate it.
I have another question? I did a little research about the other hole in the skimmer. Its called an equalizer line and I think its plumbed in with the main drain, so do I need to plug this also along with the main drain? Could water leak out through the equalizer pipe to the main drain and out through the hole or crack in the plumbing?
You shouldn't need to plug it if it's an equalizer line; it isn't connected to the main drains in any way.
I'm honestly a bit confuse about your air compressor test. You have 2 drains tied together, so you plugged one and blew air out the other? Then the bubbles in your pump basket were gone? If that's the case, I'm not sure what that means.
This may be a dumb question, but are you certain that you don't have any leaks in the drain suction pipe near where it enters into the pump?
I'm honestly a bit confuse about your air compressor test. You have 2 drains tied together, so you plugged one and blew air out the other? Then the bubbles in your pump basket were gone? If that's the case, I'm not sure what that means.
This may be a dumb question, but are you certain that you don't have any leaks in the drain suction pipe near where it enters into the pump?
Maybe I did not explain it right. I have two main drains in the pool that lead to one pipe that comes back to the pump basket. I closed off the skimmer and put the compressor on the main drain pipe. When I blew the air only one of the main drains in the pool blew air bubbles and the other did nothing (like it was clogged or broken pipe) so I plugged the good drain in the pool to create more pressure in the "bad" one. I got the compressor up to about 75psi and finally got air through the pipe (visible by a large amount of bubbles from the drain).
Then, I removed the drain plug from the main drain (at this point, no plugs in the main drain) and went back and turned the filter on. Everything looked good, it held its prime (no air bubbles in the pump basket) I walked away and checked it again about 5 min. later and the bubbles reappeared and started to lose its prime. So I was back to square one.
I plugged up the main drains in the pool,put water back in the pool to fill line and switched to skimmer only. Its been about 24 hrs and so far the water went down about 1/8" which is half the amount as before and since its very hot today I thinks its due to evaporation.
What could the other hole in the bottom of the skimmer be? It does not seem to do anything, no suction.
Then, I removed the drain plug from the main drain (at this point, no plugs in the main drain) and went back and turned the filter on. Everything looked good, it held its prime (no air bubbles in the pump basket) I walked away and checked it again about 5 min. later and the bubbles reappeared and started to lose its prime. So I was back to square one.
I plugged up the main drains in the pool,put water back in the pool to fill line and switched to skimmer only. Its been about 24 hrs and so far the water went down about 1/8" which is half the amount as before and since its very hot today I thinks its due to evaporation.
What could the other hole in the bottom of the skimmer be? It does not seem to do anything, no suction.
Ok, all things considered, here's my impression:
You certainly have a suction side air leak. It probably is a water leak as well, but is not leaking very much (for a while it sounded like you weren't sure you were losing any more than evap). One of your drains is clogged; it seems unlikely that you'd have a broken pipe just there, since the drains are probably teed together halfway between them. When you blew air and eventually got bubbles out of it, I think you didn't get the clog out, but managed to loosen it a bit so that the air could get by.
Most suction-side leaks are either in the pump basket lid (probably not your case since switching to skimmer gets rid of it, but check anyway) or in the above-ground pipe before the pump (have you thoroughly checked all those connections?). Assuming your equipment is above the water level, having a leak in the above-ground pipe would suck lots of air but not lose much, if any, water. A leak below the water level (underground, such as a cracked connection or broken pipe) would suck air, though usually not that much unless its surrounded by coarse material like gravel backfill. It will leak water.
What puzzles me about this is that you suck LOTS of air, enough to lose prime, but you're losing very little water. That sounds like it almost has to be an above-ground connection leak.
As for the other pipe in your skimmer, try blowing some air in it with your compressor. That'll tell you if it goes anywhere. have a pipe in the bottom of my skimmer that doesn't do anything.
You certainly have a suction side air leak. It probably is a water leak as well, but is not leaking very much (for a while it sounded like you weren't sure you were losing any more than evap). One of your drains is clogged; it seems unlikely that you'd have a broken pipe just there, since the drains are probably teed together halfway between them. When you blew air and eventually got bubbles out of it, I think you didn't get the clog out, but managed to loosen it a bit so that the air could get by.
Most suction-side leaks are either in the pump basket lid (probably not your case since switching to skimmer gets rid of it, but check anyway) or in the above-ground pipe before the pump (have you thoroughly checked all those connections?). Assuming your equipment is above the water level, having a leak in the above-ground pipe would suck lots of air but not lose much, if any, water. A leak below the water level (underground, such as a cracked connection or broken pipe) would suck air, though usually not that much unless its surrounded by coarse material like gravel backfill. It will leak water.
What puzzles me about this is that you suck LOTS of air, enough to lose prime, but you're losing very little water. That sounds like it almost has to be an above-ground connection leak.
As for the other pipe in your skimmer, try blowing some air in it with your compressor. That'll tell you if it goes anywhere. have a pipe in the bottom of my skimmer that doesn't do anything.
So basically you think I should dig down around the above ground main drain pipe?
I just went outside to check the water level and I lost the same amount of water in the bucket as in the pool. So it has to be the main drain.
I just went outside to check the water level and I lost the same amount of water in the bucket as in the pool. So it has to be the main drain.
I think before you start digging, I would make absolutely sure that nothing above-ground is the source of or contributing to your air leak. I'd re-lube or possibly replace the gasket in the strainer basket lid, just to rule that out. I would check all the connections above-ground using a hose. With the drain suction on (but not so much that you lose prime), run the hose over each connection, cupping your hand around the bottom of the pipe, and see if the bubbles lessen or disappear. Keep it at each joint for 30 seconds or so and see if there's any change.
Also, I'd unplug the main drains and run the bucket test until I was absolutely sure I needed to dig. 1/8" difference is not much, and I'd want to be 100% sure. Hope that helps.
Also, I'd unplug the main drains and run the bucket test until I was absolutely sure I needed to dig. 1/8" difference is not much, and I'd want to be 100% sure. Hope that helps.
I haven't seen anything in any of your posts that indicates a problem with your pool. 1/4" loss a day is perfectly normal.
Bubbles when running on main drain only is fairly common. It's due to the inability of the plumbing to supply enough water to the pump with only one inlet.
Either way, digging out a main drain with a problem between the drains is a major undertaking and will require virtually total replacement of your pool. No more problem than it's causing, I'd just live with it, but like I said, your pool sounds normal.
If your main drains are plumbed to the pump, the second hole in your skimmer would normally be plugged. Are you sure there is a pipe attached to the second hole?
Bubbles when running on main drain only is fairly common. It's due to the inability of the plumbing to supply enough water to the pump with only one inlet.
Either way, digging out a main drain with a problem between the drains is a major undertaking and will require virtually total replacement of your pool. No more problem than it's causing, I'd just live with it, but like I said, your pool sounds normal.
If your main drains are plumbed to the pump, the second hole in your skimmer would normally be plugged. Are you sure there is a pipe attached to the second hole?
The one thing I don't see is pictures of the equipment. I agree that you should leave it alone if it's no worse than ¼ to ½" per day. I also agree that I'd check and double check everything above ground before I ever stuck a shovel in the dirt even the valves. Those can leak around the stem.
Sounds like a collapsed flex line on the drain to me. Where it kinked is anyone's guess. Plug both drains and valve it off. If the leak stops, you found the culprit. I hate flex pipe.
Scott
Scott
Thanks for all your replies. I realize 1/4 to 1/2" could be normal but the bucket did not evaporate any water,it remained at the mark I made.
It's been to days since I plugged the main drains in the pool and switched over to skimmer and virtually no water loss. It was consistent with the bucket. So now since I isolated the leak do you think " fix a leak" is worth a shot?
Another question I have is how do I adjust the suction on the skimmer when I vacuum?
It's been to days since I plugged the main drains in the pool and switched over to skimmer and virtually no water loss. It was consistent with the bucket. So now since I isolated the leak do you think " fix a leak" is worth a shot?
Another question I have is how do I adjust the suction on the skimmer when I vacuum?
I have another question, the pool was installed 5 years ago, do you think the pool installer would be liable for this?
1) Fix-A-Leak will not work here. It's for pressure side leaks only.
2) I doubt the installer would fix it under warranty but if you don't ask....
If they used flex pipe, one of four things has happened:
First, either the glued joint at either the drain or by the pad failed. Digging down carefully in front of the pipe to expose the glue joint could reveal the failed connection.
It could be the other end too. That would require a track hoe to dig the trench and either sand or 3/8" gravel for backfilling.
Another possible failure is a foreign object such as a rock poked a hole somewhere in the line when the ground settled.
Last, the line collapsed somewhere and got holed at the crease.
If hard pipe was used, any of the glue joints might have failed but that is fairly unlikely. A freeze crack, IMHO, is more likely. That would not normally be at the drain but rather anywhere along the run from the pool to the equipment pad near the frost line and mean the line wasn't properly winterized.
Scott
2) I doubt the installer would fix it under warranty but if you don't ask....
If they used flex pipe, one of four things has happened:
First, either the glued joint at either the drain or by the pad failed. Digging down carefully in front of the pipe to expose the glue joint could reveal the failed connection.
It could be the other end too. That would require a track hoe to dig the trench and either sand or 3/8" gravel for backfilling.
Another possible failure is a foreign object such as a rock poked a hole somewhere in the line when the ground settled.
Last, the line collapsed somewhere and got holed at the crease.
If hard pipe was used, any of the glue joints might have failed but that is fairly unlikely. A freeze crack, IMHO, is more likely. That would not normally be at the drain but rather anywhere along the run from the pool to the equipment pad near the frost line and mean the line wasn't properly winterized.
Scott
No but you might turn the eyeballs off to the side. This should offer additional resistance, slowing the flow some. What kind of vacuum head are you using? A brushed head, like those used on a liner pool will be less likely to get stuck on the floor than a wheeled concrete head.
Scott
Scott
Its a brushed one but I in the past used with full skimmer and i could barely budge the vacuum.