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Thread: to floc or not to floc

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    to floc or not to floc

    This is the start of my second season. So it's my first post-winter opening. The pool was a green swampy mess. I followed the pool school for green pools and now the green is gone, but the water is cloudy (looks like skim milk). I am assuming this is dead algae susspended in the water, right?

    I've been filtering 24/7 since Monday with almost no change. Should I floc and vacuum out their little corpses, or just continue to filter? Was hoping to be up an running by Sunday or Monday. Thanks.

    FC 4
    pH 7.8
    TA 80
    CYA 50

    12X24 oval
    12X24 Oval
    sand filter

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Did you perform the overnight FC loss test to determine that you are done shocking?
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    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Have you been brushing and cleaning filter as needed? Keeping the water stirred will help the algea make it to the skimmer and uncover algea hidding under the surface. Depending on the quality of your pools circulation it can be more difficult than clearing an IGP.

    I am afraid at this point I have more questions than answers.

    1- What level did you shock at? At your CYA, shock is 20 FC, and is maintained at that level ( hourly if need be ) untill question 2 can be answered yes.

    2- Did you reach a CC level of no more than .05 and perform a over night FC loss test with a loss of less than 1ppm chlorine? If not bring the shock level to 20ppm and maintain this level the best you can, untill it is.

    Floc will settle the small particles to the bottom and you could vacume them out to waste. Your water will be clearer than it is now. Chlorine will do the same thing. I really believe you need to continue shocking/ brushing/rinsing filter.

    Posting your pools size, type of equiptment, and chlorination method helps others to give more specific advice.
    coloeb,
    20k gal. IG fiberglass/plaster rectangle 32'x16'
    Hayward Superpump 3/4 H.P. primary Hayward model 5060 Booster Pump
    Hayward Pro Series High Rate Sand Filter
    Pentair Model 320 automatic Chlorine/bromine in-line feeder

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    After the algae is all dead it can take a week or occasionally more for a sand filter to clean up the pool, but there should be a visible improvement each day. If things really haven't been getting better than something is wrong, either the algae isn't all dead or the filter isn't working correctly.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Everyone's given you good advice, I just wanted to say that floc is only needed in extreme circumstances. If all the algae is dead, the filter will clear it just fine, it just may take a little time.
    John

    24' round Vogue AGP 12,000 gal. Flotec AT251001-01 1HP pump, Hayward S310T2 sand filter, Aquarite SWG T-15
    TF-100 (found at TF Test Kits) with Speedstir and Samplesizer

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    what is floc?
    11,872 Gallon IG Shotcrete play pool
    Blue Granite Pebble Sheen finish
    Hayward SwimClear c4025, Navigator & Tristar 1.75hp pump
    2' Powerfall

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    Bob47's Avatar
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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Flocculent. It's a chemical that binds to small particles in the water, making them sink to the bottom where they can be vacuumed up. I tried it last year and it didn't do a darned thing.

    Having just gone through the algae bloom nightmare I can say that brushing the sides and bottom well every day, keeping the filter running 24/7 and lots of patience worked for me. It took 6 days to clear up completely. I cleaned the filter cartridge every day, too. It's really hard to stand there and stare at that milky water after busting your back brushing every inch and just wait for it to clear, but it will.
    Bob
    Baltimore, MD
    5300 Gal, 15' Round AG, Vinyl, 1.5hp pump, Cartridge Filter

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Thanks for the input.... I am holding off on the floc for now. I am letting the filter do it's job and still shocking. Chlorine is still dropping overnight. Could be because of my new issue... worms ( started a new post if you care to comment).
    12X24 Oval
    sand filter

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    I didn't realize sand would filter dead algae. When I kill a bloom, I ALWAYS have to use alot of clarifier (not floc) to clear the dead algae, and adding some diatomite through the skimmer helps too. My sand filter doesn't clear the dead algae without the clarifier, even if I wait weeks. I have zeobrite in my sand filter, could that have anything to do with it? Does the liquid blue clarifier cause any other problems? I don't like adding chemicals but it is a necessary evil.
    33' above ground pool, 52" deep, about 27500 g
    sand filter w/zeobrite

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Miranda... I am assuming that the sand filter will take out the dead algae... but I have very little experience/knowledge of the whole process. Maybe I am waiting for something that will never happen. Perhaps someone with more expertise can chime in: Do I need to change or add filter media???
    12X24 Oval
    sand filter

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    Any kind of filter that is working will get all of the dead algae out of the water eventually. Some filters take longer than others, sand is very slow, Intex paper filters are slower still, DE is relatively fast, cartridge in-between. You do need to clean/backwash the filter as needed.

    There are some situations, like calcium clouding, that no filter will be able to filter out. These are particles so small you can't see them directly and they don't settle to the bottom. Calcium clouding in particular is easy to clear up by lowering the PH, but some other very fine dust situations occasionally require clarifier, but that is really quite rare.

    Floc can clean the water overnight if used after the algae is all dead. However, it is a fair bit of work, requires a system that can vacuum to waste, uses up water which must be replaced, doesn't always work, and costs money. Because of all those issues, I don't recommend floc unless you are sure the algae is all dead and really are in a big hurry.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    In my experience, if all of the algae is dead I'm in a hurry, I just turn off the pump for a good number of hours and it floats to the bottom on its own. I generally only do this when there is already extra water in the pool that I need to remove anyway.

    If youdo thus, the water will probably still be slightly cloudy, but significantly less so, and the filter will love you for it. Also, lowering the pH may help; I had some reduction in clarity in my deep end, and the only change was that I had added 70+ ppm CYA over the course of two days and had been adding borax to counteract the drop in pH. I saw the pH go from 7.2 to 7.8 and the increasingly diffuse appearance of the deep end subsided when the cya in the filter continued to dissolve and the pH dropped back to 7.5.

    Just give it time; I didn't add any DE or Fiberclear (though I have a bag on hand). I didn't want the filter to keep clogging and have to backwash more often, now that the water is crystal clear I will add it after the next backwash to help it sparkle, along with the borates.

    So keep at it, it will be clear in no time.
    45,180 gallon 26' x 53' IG Vinyl, irregular shape. Hayward sand filter / pump. Polaris AutoClear SWG, supplemented with a Hayward Automatic Chlorinator (In-Line). Hayward 400K BTU heater. Paramount "turnover" system. Polaris 480 PRO cleaner.

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    Re: to floc or not to floc

    A visual example of what you describe is shown here where the dead algae settles to the bottom where it can be vacuumed to waste thus reducing the demands on the filter.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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