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Thread: Question on AGP pump wiring

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    Question on AGP pump wiring

    OK im new here and have a question regarding my pump (Sta Rite 1.5hp) plug in setup....I plan on having my pool installed near an outdoor GFCI outlet. Im not 100% sure if its 15 or 20 amp yet. The outlet is located about 6 ft from the pool, I wanted to know if I could run a heavy duty extension from the pump to the outlet. It will not be real long but the cord on the pump is not long enough to reach the outlet. I plan on wiring it direct eventually but just wanted to get it up and running for this season. Also while on the subject, should I bond the pump to the pool???
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    There are two problems here. First, you should never have an outlet that close to the pool unless it is a single twist lock outlet specifically for the pump. Second, you shouldn't use an extension cord of any kind with the pump. Depending on where you live, and some details about the pool, those two points might be the law or they might just be a really good idea.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Ok heres my plan but I need some help....I am going to run a 12-2 wire from my CB Panel (independent 20Amp circuit) to the backyard through my crawlspace then run the wire through buried conduit into the pump. I am going to use a ground rod as an additional ground and bond my pool to the pump. My questions are
    1. What would be the best way to connect it to the 115v pump (an outlet or direct connection)
    2. Is there any specific type of wire I need or will general 12-2 wire bought at Lowes do??

    If anyone has any recommendations please chime in. Thanks!!!
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Hard wiring the pump is better. An outlet adds an extra failure point. For buried conduit you usually need type TW or UF wire, though your local code might be different.

    A ground rod is not recommended, though this is disputed in some places. Bonding is recommended.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Ok heres my next question....I read somewhere online that the pump should not be closer than 5' from the pool wall but does this only apply if it is not hardwired?? It seems like every AGP I have seen the pump/filter is right next to the pool. If that is too close, what would be a good distance???.....

    Also , as far as grounding the pump goes....Is the ground that goes into the CB panel sufficent or should I run another ground somewhere??? Thanks again for all the help, I am new at this and want to make sure I have it right the first time!!
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    A pump that plugs in to an outlet can only have 3 feet of cord. An outlet needs to be no closer than 10 feet to the water.

    Also, you cant put NM (Romex) or UF cable in conduit. You can use direct burial wire, but it cant be in a raceway. If you use conduit, you have to use separate conductors (THHN).
    The best way to do this is to run your power to a quick disconnect box. You bring the power in to the box, then run the pump, hardwired, into the disconnect part of the box. It's not a breaker, but its more like a big plug with the power hard wired into it. If you have a central air conditioning unit outside, it most likely is wired this way. Use outdoor flex conduit from the pump to the disconnect.

    No grounding rod for the pump. It needs to be bonded. The ground for the motor is taken care of back at the panel since you will wire the pump with a hot, neutral, and ground.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    bk, that's the second time I've seen written on here that you can't put NM or UF cable in conduit, but I can't find anything in the NEC about it. Do you have an article number?

    Vees, In some jurisdictions a ABG is considered a portable pool and therefore falls under those guidlines. I think all pools should abide by the 5' horizontal rule.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    bk, that's the second time I've seen written on here that you can't put NM or UF cable in conduit, but I can't find anything in the NEC about it. Do you have an article number?
    .
    I know you cant, they will flunk you every time, even if the NEC is silent. The idea is that pulling NM thru conduit can damage the covering and cause cut in the wiring. Single conductor cable would have that issue (well, not near as much any way). Most cite the fill requirements as well. Romex run in conduit will over fill a 1/2 inch conduit. You can only fill 53% of the conduit. You can put 9 single conductor wires in a half inch, but 1 piece of romex would over fill the same size conduit and would be a violation. I guess you could use 1 inch conduit, and he's most likely not getting it inspected so....
    The other part that cited is that Romex is not rated for wet locations. So it's not appropriate for conduit at all. Now direct burial is, but the fill requiremants can get get there.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    bk, that's the second time I've seen written on here that you can't put NM or UF cable in conduit, but I can't find anything in the NEC about it. Do you have an article number?
    .
    I know you cant, they will flunk you every time, even if the NEC is silent. The idea is that pulling NM thru conduit can damage the covering and cause cut in the wiring. Single conductor cable would have that issue (well, not near as much any way). Most cite the fill requirements as well. Romex run in conduit will over fill a 1/2 inch conduit. You can only fill 53% of the conduit. You can put 9 single conductor wires in a half inch, but 1 piece of romex would over fill the same size conduit and would be a violation. I guess you could use 1 inch conduit, and he's most likely not getting it inspected so....
    The other part that cited is that Romex is not rated for wet locations. So it's not appropriate for conduit at all. Now direct burial is, but the fill requiremants can get get there.
    Excellent post, IMHO. I have read a number of discussions in Mike Holt and elsewhere, and the only direct prohibition seems to be NM in buried conduit as not suitable for wet location. But the consensus is a) a pro would never do it and b) most inspectors would ding you for it. The added cost of the cable vs conductors and possibly larger conduit size due to fill restrictions plus pulling difficulty/damage possibility are the major reasons.
    Current: 28,000G 18'x36' I/G AnthonySylvan Plaster; Waterway 60 sq.ft. DE Filter; 1.0hp x 1.65 SF Two-Speed (B2982) WhisperFlo; 2004-Present
    Previous: 40,000G 20'x40' I/G Koven unlined WWII salvage 5/8" marine steel; Lomart Stainless Sand Filter; 3/4hp Hayward SuperPump; 1946-2003 (managed by me from about 1964)
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    No argument that the local inspector has the final word.

    I was just reading NEC 2008, article 334.15(B) and it stated that NM cables shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by (all types of conduit). But this isn't the place to continue this so I'm done.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    One more word.
    Bama, you are correct, but that applies to an above ground situation where the conduit is used as a protection only such as running the NM thru a bulkhead, etc, where the NM sheathing would need protection from potential damage. And that use of NM in conduit is limited to 7 feet, more or less, depending on the inspector.

    ok, i'm out
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    A pump that plugs in to an outlet can only have 3 feet of cord. An outlet needs to be no closer than 10 feet to the water.

    Also, you cant put NM (Romex) or UF cable in conduit. You can use direct burial wire, but it cant be in a raceway. If you use conduit, you have to use separate conductors (THHN).
    The best way to do this is to run your power to a quick disconnect box. You bring the power in to the box, then run the pump, hardwired, into the disconnect part of the box. It's not a breaker, but its more like a big plug with the power hard wired into it. If you have a central air conditioning unit outside, it most likely is wired this way. Use outdoor flex conduit from the pump to the disconnect.

    No grounding rod for the pump. It needs to be bonded. The ground for the motor is taken care of back at the panel since you will wire the pump with a hot, neutral, and ground.

    Could you provide me a link to exactly what the quick disconnect box looks like?? Also, since I plan on running it straight from the CB panel should I run THHN all the way or only when it is run through conduit?? And what type of wire should I run from the pump to the QD box??
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    OK I think I have my setup all planned out (again)....I want to run a twist lock between 5-10ft from the pool. I have no pool accessories so I do not need another outlet. I am going to try and buy a whole cord assembly so I could just connect it straight to the pump. I still have a few questions though....I was at lowes and seen some grey flex type conduit, is this safe to bury underground??? My next question was, in regards to running the wire from my GFI CB (located in my garage) to the exterior through my crawlspace, should I use THWN all the way to the Twist lock outlet or would it be better to use Romex into a junction box, then splice in the THWN and run it outside underground??? Thanks in advance!!
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    No flex use rigid.
    You can run romex from the panel to a J-box, then THWN, thats fine.

    I'd still run the power out to the pool area and use a disconnect box, but that's up to you.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by bk406
    No flex use rigid.
    You can run romex from the panel to a J-box, then THWN, thats fine.

    I'd still run the power out to the pool area and use a disconnect box, but that's up to you.

    Is there special types of splices I should use in the junction box or just the regular twist type??? And do you have an internet link to what type of disconnect box I should use???
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Just twist type would be fine.

    Go to Lowes and ask to see their disconnect boxes. Do you have central A/C? The comprsssor outside should have one.

    Google up disconnect box.
    14,000 gallon IG, Vinyl. Hayward 3/4 hp superpump, Penatair IC40 SWCG, Pentair automation, Hayward sand filter, Aqua Comfort heat pump, Hayward 400k Lo-Nox LP heater.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    Here is a sample disconnect box. The specific one in the picture is much larger than you need, but it should give you the basic idea.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Question on AGP pump wiring

    I plan on using a 110 pump......The twist lock type I need is the one with 3 prongs correct???
    17100 Gallon AGP, Sta-Rite 150sq ft ModMedia Filter, Sta-Rite 1.5 hp Pump

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