Baquacil and chlorine combine very rapidly. As long as there is still some baquacil in the water, the FC level will go to zero rapidly. Also, if there is any chlorine left after fighting the baquacil, it will be rapidly consumed by sunlight.
Beginning conversion from Baqua to chlorine
- Thread starter jule
- Start date
I'm curious to know what the price others pay for bleach and/or shock is around the US. So far I've purchased 6 cases of liquid chlorine 12% from 12.00 to 14.99 a case. And 2 bottles of bleach 6% from local Walmart @ 1.47 a bottle. The Walmart bleach is only 3qts, not a full gallon like the liquid chlorine.
I've got 350.00 so far into my pool. About 90.00 of that is for chlorine. The rest went for two sets of cartridge filters and a new brush for the walls.
It's been rainy and cold here for several days. Pool is not clear yet. Conversion isn't complete. Was frustrated so last night I put in a whole case of shock, which was dumb. This morning offered no change in appearance, FC registered zero, so it was wasted. Live and learn. However tempted you are --- don't put in more than you need.
I've got 350.00 so far into my pool. About 90.00 of that is for chlorine. The rest went for two sets of cartridge filters and a new brush for the walls.
It's been rainy and cold here for several days. Pool is not clear yet. Conversion isn't complete. Was frustrated so last night I put in a whole case of shock, which was dumb. This morning offered no change in appearance, FC registered zero, so it was wasted. Live and learn. However tempted you are --- don't put in more than you need.
12.5% chlorinating liquid at my local pool store is $3 per gallon before tax. There are deposits for the plastic case of 4 and for the gallon jugs, but these are refundable and one-time costs since the bottles are returned/exchanged for new ones.
$3.00 a gallon is my best price for the liquid chlorine but I drive 35 miles for that and pick it up if I have to go to that area for other things. Can get it 12 miles away for 1.00 more in the opposite direction. I live out in the country so nearly every place is a drive. Wally is 8 miles for bleach.
The recycling program you seem to have is interesting. Our cases aren't plastic, but cardboard. I've yet to find a store within 50 miles of me that has that kind of program. We recycle ourselves.
The recycling program you seem to have is interesting. Our cases aren't plastic, but cardboard. I've yet to find a store within 50 miles of me that has that kind of program. We recycle ourselves.
I pay $4.50 for a 2 1/2 gallon container of 10.5% chlorine locally at the pool store. The Wal-Mart here sells a 182oz. jug of 6% bleach for $2.54.
During my conversion I spent quite a bit of cash on bleach too. Once you get through the conversion, it will be much cheaper than Baquacil to maintain. I can usually get about 10 to 12 days from the 2 1/2 gallons from the pool store. So roughly $12 or so a month for chlorine.
During my conversion I spent quite a bit of cash on bleach too. Once you get through the conversion, it will be much cheaper than Baquacil to maintain. I can usually get about 10 to 12 days from the 2 1/2 gallons from the pool store. So roughly $12 or so a month for chlorine.
The cases are basically milk carton crates, I believe 16 quart in size, that hold four 1-gallon plastic jugs of Hasa chlorinating liquid. It's very cool and I thank my pool store every time I buy from them for offering the chlorine at a reasonable price and for reusing the bottles.jule said:
Need Help --
Yesterday morning FC @ zero - added 1 and 1/2 gallons shock as per calculator
numbers @ 2:30pm
FC 20
CC 1.5
TC 21.5
ph 8.0
TA 140
again about midnight FC zero so added one and a half gallons shock
numbers @ 6am this morning:
FC 21.5
CC 1
TC 22.5
ph 8
TA 140
vaccumed, rinsed cartridge filters and skimmer baskets. Tossed the skimmer socks.
just tested again @ 3:15 today (sun is on the pool now)
FC 0
CC 1
TC 1
ph 7.3 or maybe 7.4
TA 130
There has been no change in appearance for 5 days! I have been running pump 24/7 since May 7th conversion begin. Only downtime for the pump is when I clean filters. Cannot keep this up. We are on Time of Use for electricity and normally after a few days of season open, only run the pump between 7pm and 7am when rates are three times cheaper. No idea what this is going to do to our electric bill. Between electric and shock I'm about ready to shut it down and drain it. I've read typical conversion is 7 - 10 days but there is no change in water appearance in 5 days. I would think at least by now I'd see the bottom, but cannot.
Need help/suggestions?
Yesterday morning FC @ zero - added 1 and 1/2 gallons shock as per calculator
numbers @ 2:30pm
FC 20
CC 1.5
TC 21.5
ph 8.0
TA 140
again about midnight FC zero so added one and a half gallons shock
numbers @ 6am this morning:
FC 21.5
CC 1
TC 22.5
ph 8
TA 140
vaccumed, rinsed cartridge filters and skimmer baskets. Tossed the skimmer socks.
just tested again @ 3:15 today (sun is on the pool now)
FC 0
CC 1
TC 1
ph 7.3 or maybe 7.4
TA 130
There has been no change in appearance for 5 days! I have been running pump 24/7 since May 7th conversion begin. Only downtime for the pump is when I clean filters. Cannot keep this up. We are on Time of Use for electricity and normally after a few days of season open, only run the pump between 7pm and 7am when rates are three times cheaper. No idea what this is going to do to our electric bill. Between electric and shock I'm about ready to shut it down and drain it. I've read typical conversion is 7 - 10 days but there is no change in water appearance in 5 days. I would think at least by now I'd see the bottom, but cannot.
Need help/suggestions?
You need to keep your FC level up more consistently. You cannot check it every 12 hours and expect the FC level to stay at shock level. You need to KEEP it at shock level, not bring it to shock level and let it fall to 0. The chlorine reacts to the Baquacil and gets used up very quickly. Check your levels every 30 minutes or so and add to bring back to shock level and it will go much quicker. The key is to keep it at shock level for as long as you can. Do not let it hit 0.
There is a crucial number that I don't see in your posts. Have you measured the overnight FC loss?
If you are losing most of your chlorine overnight then TravisD is exactly right. But if the FC level is holding overnight, or close to holding overnight, then it may well be time to move on to the next phase.
Also, please describe what the water looks like.
This seems to suggest that you are losing very little FC overnight, but I can't be sure because there isn't an FC level listed from after the final chlorine addition of the evening.jule said:
If you are losing most of your chlorine overnight then TravisD is exactly right. But if the FC level is holding overnight, or close to holding overnight, then it may well be time to move on to the next phase.
Also, please describe what the water looks like.
The FC is not holding overnight, but it has been holding around 14/15 over a 6-9hr period during the day. So, to go from 21.5 to 0 in 9hrs under a weak sun and mild temps suprised me. So I need to monitor it more closely and I will, but:
I was told that Baqua was low enough to begin a conversion without using anything to remove it. Too late now to change the process, but I'm suprised if what I understood was correct that it would take so much shock to clear the pool. There's maybe just a trace of Baqua goo in my filters, hardly noticeable really. I was using the skimmer socks and they did have a slight film, yellowish tint, which I assume is residue from Baqua.
Softswim B=6(my pool) ideal: 30-50 (sanitizer)
Softswim C=2(my pool) ideal: 20 (oxidizer/clarifier)
The water never did turn brown, which would indicate little to no Baqua presence, when adding the liquid chlorine, wouldn't it?
Also, from the pool store test before conversion: Copper 0.2 - IS this a concern?
In any case, I would think the appearance would be changing some after the dramatic difference of the first 48 hours. It looks the same as it did on Monday, 5-10, despite brushing and vacuuming and rinsing the filters, and nearly 7 cases of liquid chlorine shock @ 12.5%.
[attachment=0:1xs1xou4]77.5hrs_5-10-2010.jpg[/attachment:1xs1xou4]
I was told that Baqua was low enough to begin a conversion without using anything to remove it. Too late now to change the process, but I'm suprised if what I understood was correct that it would take so much shock to clear the pool. There's maybe just a trace of Baqua goo in my filters, hardly noticeable really. I was using the skimmer socks and they did have a slight film, yellowish tint, which I assume is residue from Baqua.
Softswim B=6(my pool) ideal: 30-50 (sanitizer)
Softswim C=2(my pool) ideal: 20 (oxidizer/clarifier)
The water never did turn brown, which would indicate little to no Baqua presence, when adding the liquid chlorine, wouldn't it?
Also, from the pool store test before conversion: Copper 0.2 - IS this a concern?
In any case, I would think the appearance would be changing some after the dramatic difference of the first 48 hours. It looks the same as it did on Monday, 5-10, despite brushing and vacuuming and rinsing the filters, and nearly 7 cases of liquid chlorine shock @ 12.5%.
[attachment=0:1xs1xou4]77.5hrs_5-10-2010.jpg[/attachment:1xs1xou4]
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Your water looks exactly the way mine did during my conversion. If you keep your FC at shock level (do not let it get below if at all possible) it will clear up. Every conversion is different. Some take longer than others. The amount of chlorine that it takes surprised me too. I went through about 50 gallons of chlorine for my conversion. I was able to monitor it very closely and keep the FC at shock level the whole time. That sped things up for me. Keep at it, you are doing fine, just keep that FC level up to shock level. Be patient, it will happen.
I am not sure I understand what you said here. You appear to be say that you both do and don't lose chlorine during the day.jule said:
The really interesting number is how much chlorine you are losing overnight. That is really the only number that can tell you how the conversion is moving along. In the later stages of the conversion you want to switch to only adding chlorine in the evening or at night, so you aren't losing so much chlorine during the day. If I knew what your overnight FC loss was, I could tell you where you are in the process.
Losing all of your chlorine during the day is completely normal for a baquacil conversion, even on an overcast day. This is happening because CYA is zero, and would happen that way even if there wasn't any baquacil involved.
Copper at 0.2 is alright as long as you don't have fiberglass stairs. Copper at 0.2 might well stain fiberglass, but it really shouldn't be an issue for vinyl.
There are only two ways to remove baquacil, either oxidize it with chlorine (or something similar) or replace the water. In almost all cases using chlorine to oxidize the baquacil is the most efficient approach. That does require a substantial amount of chlorine. Replacing water doesn't work so well with a vinyl liner because you can't do a complete drain, so you are always leaving a substantial amount of baquacil behind.jule said:
Jule, did you backwash?
During my conversion, I backwashed every day right before adding liquid chlorine in the evening, even though the filter pressure didn't increase much.
During my conversion, I backwashed every day right before adding liquid chlorine in the evening, even though the filter pressure didn't increase much.
Here's a review of the past nine hours. (Sleeping between 4 & 7am) calc=recommended dosage to add
not tested or nt means I didn't test for CC as it's staying pretty consistent
Date Test Time FC CC TC ph Action?
05/15/10 03:15:00 PM 0 1 1 7.35 Added 2 bottles shock
05:45:00 PM 23 1 24 Test run after shock addition
05/16/10 01:50:00 AM 21.5 1 22.5
02:20:00 AM 17 1 18
02:50:00 AM 20 1 21
03:20:00 AM 13 0.5 13.05 calc=28oz added 32oz
03:50:00 AM 26 1
07:15:00 AM 19.5 1 7.6 (sun shine)
07:50:00 AM 16.5 1
08:20:00 AM 12 not tested calc=42oz added 32oz brushed bottom of pool (to reach 15)
08:50:00 AM 10.5 0.5 calc=62oz Added 62oz remainder of open gallon (to reach 15)
10:10:00 AM 8.5 nt calc=90oz added 128oz
10:23:00 AM 22.5 1
11:20:00 AM 10 0.5 calc=69oz Added 68oz (to reach 15)
11:33:00 AM 11 0.5 7.3 or 7.4
11:46:00 AM 11 0.5 calc=55oz Added 60oz (to reach 15)
12:06:00 PM 14.5 0.5 out of chlorine – one hour trip min to get more
not tested or nt means I didn't test for CC as it's staying pretty consistent
Date Test Time FC CC TC ph Action?
05/15/10 03:15:00 PM 0 1 1 7.35 Added 2 bottles shock
05:45:00 PM 23 1 24 Test run after shock addition
05/16/10 01:50:00 AM 21.5 1 22.5
02:20:00 AM 17 1 18
02:50:00 AM 20 1 21
03:20:00 AM 13 0.5 13.05 calc=28oz added 32oz
03:50:00 AM 26 1
07:15:00 AM 19.5 1 7.6 (sun shine)
07:50:00 AM 16.5 1
08:20:00 AM 12 not tested calc=42oz added 32oz brushed bottom of pool (to reach 15)
08:50:00 AM 10.5 0.5 calc=62oz Added 62oz remainder of open gallon (to reach 15)
10:10:00 AM 8.5 nt calc=90oz added 128oz
10:23:00 AM 22.5 1
11:20:00 AM 10 0.5 calc=69oz Added 68oz (to reach 15)
11:33:00 AM 11 0.5 7.3 or 7.4
11:46:00 AM 11 0.5 calc=55oz Added 60oz (to reach 15)
12:06:00 PM 14.5 0.5 out of chlorine – one hour trip min to get more
Alright, from 3:50 AM to 7:15 AM you lost 6.5 from a starting level of 26. We can imagine that you might have lost 10 to 12 over a full night. That means that you are into what I can the second phase of the conversion, you are still losing chlorine overnight, but the rate of chlorine loss to baquacil is now slower than the rate you lose chlorine to sunlight.
At this point you have a choice. You can either continue adding chlorine ever hour or two during the day, which will use a lot more chlorine but take less total time, or you can switch to only adding chlorine in the evenings/at night, which will use significantly less chlorine, but will take more time.
By tracking how much chlorine is lost each night, you can see the progress you are making. The less chlorine you lose overnight, the closer you are to finishing.
At this point you have a choice. You can either continue adding chlorine ever hour or two during the day, which will use a lot more chlorine but take less total time, or you can switch to only adding chlorine in the evenings/at night, which will use significantly less chlorine, but will take more time.
By tracking how much chlorine is lost each night, you can see the progress you are making. The less chlorine you lose overnight, the closer you are to finishing.
At this stage you can probably stop testing the PH and save your reagent. With the FC levels up, the PH readings aren't too accurate anyway.
Keep it up, you'll get there and trust me, you'll never look back.
Keep it up, you'll get there and trust me, you'll never look back.
Just got back from the Pool Store. Bought 4 cases of shock, 5th one free. Makes 5 cases @ 12.00ea Should've gotten 10.
So, had them test for Baqua levels: Softswim B=7 Softswim C=2 ( B=6, C=2 were the results before beginning the conversion, so despite all the chlorine shock, vacuuming, etc, all I've done is change the color from green to cloudy blue)
Then they did tests for chlorine: FC=.6 TC=.7 Total Alk=105 (my test with same sample was 140)
Total Hardness 237 (I did the Calcium hardness and got 1500. That was adding 2 drops for the copper, plus 13 drops to go from red to purple to BLUE! <---Should I have stopped at purple?
ph=7.5 (same as I got)
They suggested adding stabilizer and said getting the rest of the Baqua out is unlikely unless I drain the pool. I mentioned this site and the program I was trying to follow for converting. Based on that, they suggested adding 3 cases at night to super chlorinate to clear the cloudy water, if I didn't want to add anything but shock right now.
Interestingly, the print out from them reads, among other things: Metals. Smart Shock contains sequestered copper which could be contributing to your copper residual. This copper will not cause staining and the products recommended for metal may not be necessary.
Add 1.5 qts of Pool Magnet Plus: Your water contains copper and/or iron, which can cause discoloration and surface staining. Use recommended blah blah blah if your fill water contains metals.
Use Sparkle UP which helps filter remove chelated metal from the water.
IF I opt to add chlorine only at night, but keep the pump running 24/7 accept for filter cleaning, do I run the risk of algae? That would be my only concern as, it's still early for swim season in my part of the country. My goal is to have it usable by Memorial weekend. I have more time than money.
When cleaning the cartridge filters, should I be using some type of chemical, rather than just a hose with well water? I've been wondering, even though there isn't really Baqua goo on them, if they're not effective enough.
I think it was Windy who asked if I backwash: It's my understanding that backwashing cartridge filters, is not / can not be done. Only thing I can think of is to leave the filters out with the canister lid off and let the water pump out the open top. No idea if that really accomplishes anything. I've done that a time or two in the past to get a bit of debris out of it.
So, had them test for Baqua levels: Softswim B=7 Softswim C=2 ( B=6, C=2 were the results before beginning the conversion, so despite all the chlorine shock, vacuuming, etc, all I've done is change the color from green to cloudy blue)
Then they did tests for chlorine: FC=.6 TC=.7 Total Alk=105 (my test with same sample was 140)
Total Hardness 237 (I did the Calcium hardness and got 1500. That was adding 2 drops for the copper, plus 13 drops to go from red to purple to BLUE! <---Should I have stopped at purple?
ph=7.5 (same as I got)
They suggested adding stabilizer and said getting the rest of the Baqua out is unlikely unless I drain the pool. I mentioned this site and the program I was trying to follow for converting. Based on that, they suggested adding 3 cases at night to super chlorinate to clear the cloudy water, if I didn't want to add anything but shock right now.
Interestingly, the print out from them reads, among other things: Metals. Smart Shock contains sequestered copper which could be contributing to your copper residual. This copper will not cause staining and the products recommended for metal may not be necessary.
Add 1.5 qts of Pool Magnet Plus: Your water contains copper and/or iron, which can cause discoloration and surface staining. Use recommended blah blah blah if your fill water contains metals.
Use Sparkle UP which helps filter remove chelated metal from the water.
IF I opt to add chlorine only at night, but keep the pump running 24/7 accept for filter cleaning, do I run the risk of algae? That would be my only concern as, it's still early for swim season in my part of the country. My goal is to have it usable by Memorial weekend. I have more time than money.
When cleaning the cartridge filters, should I be using some type of chemical, rather than just a hose with well water? I've been wondering, even though there isn't really Baqua goo on them, if they're not effective enough.
I think it was Windy who asked if I backwash: It's my understanding that backwashing cartridge filters, is not / can not be done. Only thing I can think of is to leave the filters out with the canister lid off and let the water pump out the open top. No idea if that really accomplishes anything. I've done that a time or two in the past to get a bit of debris out of it.
Rather than backwash... hose off your filters? If they are coated with baquagoo (ew) this could be where your chlorine is going... how often are you taking the cartridges out and hosing them off?
windy100 said:
She has a cartridge filter and so she doesn't have the capability of backwashing.
The people at your pool store are wrong, plain and simple. You can rid your pool 100% of Baquacil by following the conversion instructions posted on this site. How do I know? Because I have done it. You do not need to drain your pool.
You also do not need to add stabilizer until AFTER your FC holds overnight. At that point, you put in new filter media and then add your CYA (stabilizer).
Washing your filter with water is just fine. All you are doing is getting rid of all the residue on the filter.
Don't worry, you won't have an algae issue as long as you shock the pool at night.
Your FC level will start to hold for longer periods of time.
The conversion method on this site works. You really have to be super strict with your FC number and the more and longer your FC falls to below shock level, the longer it is going to take to convert.
Also, for right now, the FC level is most important thing to check. Everything else can be adjusted after you convert. Focus on one thing at a time.
Don't worry, it'll come around.
You also do not need to add stabilizer until AFTER your FC holds overnight. At that point, you put in new filter media and then add your CYA (stabilizer).
Washing your filter with water is just fine. All you are doing is getting rid of all the residue on the filter.
Don't worry, you won't have an algae issue as long as you shock the pool at night.
Your FC level will start to hold for longer periods of time.
The conversion method on this site works. You really have to be super strict with your FC number and the more and longer your FC falls to below shock level, the longer it is going to take to convert.
Also, for right now, the FC level is most important thing to check. Everything else can be adjusted after you convert. Focus on one thing at a time.
Don't worry, it'll come around.