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Thread: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

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    New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Putting in a new to use 15x30' AGP with a Sand filter and Sta-Rite 1.5hp pump. I really would like to do this right the first time, so I'm seeking advice.

    We live in Montana, so clearly, our swim season is shorter than most, but I've tried to work around that to extend the season as much as possible. The pool will be below grade, so effectively installed in the ground, but not back filled against. I'm insulating the sides and have a nice solar cover.

    1) Pump - This pump is probably 5-6 years old, but single speed. Would I be better off upgrading at this time to a dual or variable speed? It seems you have better luck running at low speed for more hours than single speed less. Our electrical rates are very low comparable to other areas, but since we are also heating a spa, every little bit helps. I'm not sure that I could get any ROI with a high priced variable pump though.

    2) Remote Location - We have 5 acres, so a TON of area in which I can locate the pump/filter away from the pool. Are there limitations as to where/how far away to location the assembly? I know for in ground pools, I've seen them quite a distance. I'm thinking probably about 50' away at this point. OR, since I will have room under the deck, would that be a better option? I can easily get creative with sound abatement around the pump filter (have done this with air compressors), so I'm fine with either configuration.

    3) Solar Setup - I will be plumbing the solar system separately, and using a separate 1" 650gph clear water pump to feed them. I have 8 2x20' panels that will be mounted 50' or so from the pool in an area that will allow me to maximize sun exposure, but keep them out of the way and protected.
    -- When plumbing these separately, is there a "best way" to do the inflow and outflow? I'm thinking I'd simply add a bulkhead for each through the pool wall, and have considered using a 2nd skimmer for the intake, opposite the main skimmer. How high should the output be in the pool? Is it better to go high or low for heat and circulation distribution? I've been using a smaller system on my 18' round pool for a couple of years, and it's pretty effective, but not sure on the bigger, more permanent install.

    4) Main Plumbing - It seems like everyone recommends 2" for best setup. Do you just reduce down then on both ends to do that? If so, it seems like you lose the advantage since the sand filter piping and pump head are smaller diameter.

    Thanks so much for info, would appreciate any other that you can offer!
    Richard
    Temecula, CA
    28,000 Gal. In-Ground plaster and tile, Total Control AutoPilot with SC-60 SWG and PH control, Pentair EasyTouch 8, EasyTouch Wireless Remote, Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump, Intellibrite lighting, Pentair Quad 100, Solar heating, Pentair Mastertemp 400 Gas Heater, The Pool Cleaner 4x, Aquabot Turbo T2 Robotic Cleaner, Water feature spillover from SPA.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    1) If your current pump works well and your electrical rates are low, I wouldn't think about replacing it until it gets older or breaks.
    2) 50' away is fine, 100' away is possible. The further it is the more important it is to use relatively large diameter pipes.
    3) Adding a skimmer and a return just for the solar system is a good idea if you are using a separate pump. Having the return be lower is a little better, but won't normally make all that much difference.
    4) 2" is almost always better than 1 1/2". What maters is the average diameter. If the pipes narrow down for a short distance it doesn't usually cause a problem, unless it is really small. If you run the pump more than 50' you might want to think about 2 1/2" pipes.

    I don't think a 650 gph pump is going to be enough for that many panels that far away. With 8 panels, you are going to want between 16 and 32 gpm, which is 960 to 1920 gph. I am guessing a little, check the specs on the panels, but these are typical numbers. Also, the way pumps are normally rated in gph tends to assume about 12' of pipe. If you run the pipes 50' out and 50' back you will get a much lower flow rate than the listed flow rate.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Great, thanks so much for the info, very helpful.

    Thanks for the concern on the pump, you got me thinking, and I checked my brand new harbor freight pump box (just got here yesterday.) The website says 650gph, but the box says 330! Oops. RMA requested, so it'll be going back, and time to start shopping again, but with new requirements.

    These are sungrabber panels. Minimum flow is 1gpm per panel, max is 4gpm, and ideal is 3gpm per panel. So, you're dead on, probably somewhere between 16 - 24 gpm for 8 panels. So, I need more like a 1440gph+ pump (i'll add more for distance). Guess I should be glad HF's website was wrong, eh?

    I'm not sure what I'll do with the pumps. I'll have 3' + of over dig that will be covered with deck, so I could build a little room for the pumps and insulate them to keep the noise down, rather than deal with extra length on the pipes. We'll see, but thanks for the clarification on the reducers.

    Thanks for saving me money on a new pump, too, I'm looking forward to a REAL pool and filter system after so many years with intex...stuff. ;->

    KD
    Richard
    Temecula, CA
    28,000 Gal. In-Ground plaster and tile, Total Control AutoPilot with SC-60 SWG and PH control, Pentair EasyTouch 8, EasyTouch Wireless Remote, Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump, Intellibrite lighting, Pentair Quad 100, Solar heating, Pentair Mastertemp 400 Gas Heater, The Pool Cleaner 4x, Aquabot Turbo T2 Robotic Cleaner, Water feature spillover from SPA.

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    Melt In The Sun's Avatar
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    I would be a little wary about pumping unfiltered water through a solar system, since it wouldn't take much to clog the small tubes in the panels.
    11,200 gal, Pebble-Tec; Tristar 2-speed 1hp - Swimclear 325 ft2 cart - SWG - A & A in-floor cleaner - Heat pump. For the poolside cooking, a Yoder Wichita and a Big Steel Keg!
    TF Test Kits -- PoolMath -- Pool School
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Melt In The Sun
    I would be a little wary about pumping unfiltered water through a solar system, since it wouldn't take much to clog the small tubes in the panels.
    I've actually used an old intex pump for years, with no problems yet.

    My intention here would be to use a skimmer as the inlet, and perhaps wrapping the skimmer basket in cheese cloth or something like that would work for better small particle filtering? Any other ideas for filtering the water? I definitely want a separate pump, I've never liked the idea of making the filter pump do more than it was intended to do.
    Richard
    Temecula, CA
    28,000 Gal. In-Ground plaster and tile, Total Control AutoPilot with SC-60 SWG and PH control, Pentair EasyTouch 8, EasyTouch Wireless Remote, Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump, Intellibrite lighting, Pentair Quad 100, Solar heating, Pentair Mastertemp 400 Gas Heater, The Pool Cleaner 4x, Aquabot Turbo T2 Robotic Cleaner, Water feature spillover from SPA.

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    Join Date
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Hello, I have that same clear water 1" pump you speak of seen here> http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-cle ... -1479.html I've seen this on the web also listed at 650GPH. It's curently on sale for 29.99 I bought one a few months back on sale at $33.99 I thought it would be a good general purpose pump to have around. I have to say im a little disaponited in it. It can't prime without babying it alot. It will airlock with ANY air. there is a specific prosedure in the manual that talks about removing a plug in the impeller housing and using a garden hose with a "Y" to flood the pump and all input piping..... In the end mien wouldn't prime after i used it just once then it sat for a month. Also liquid rust came out when i tried to use it the second time from left over water. I exchanged it and will try the new one. I have to say though at the high amperage draw for such low flow this is a TEMP pump only. I'm going to do testing on my new one tomorrow and post results.

    Wanting to lower my electrical bill I started studying "variable speed" lititures from Hayward and Pentair and what the California "Title 20" is about and 2 speed pumps and hydrolic dynamics and so on. What I found is you can lower your flow and electric bill by using a smaller pump and up your run time. this will still turn your pool the same number of times per day as now (if you calculate the pump run time correctly) BUT because I have lowered the total head by cutting the flow in half this also cuts the resistance in the pipes by 4. Pretty cool, so I did alot of digging after see the variable speed pumps are $1000-$1500 and the 2speeds were only 150 bucks cheaper, and a name brand 1 hp pump would be at least $400 bucks
    Hmmm i have a pentair whisper flow WF-6 1.5HP Service factor is 1.3 something that takes 22 amps to run and needs to run 3 hrs to turn my pool over. So i dug for a deal on a good pump, THis is what I found any bought >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEWNX:IT
    from ebay, it can also be seen/bought here>> http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Tools-Water ... B002GQ9962
    at amazon. Or here at Tool Planet>> http://www.toolplanet.com/product/Neiko ... 3032333436

    It is a Neiko Tools USA 1 HP Pool Pump with strainer basket and boy am I happy with it I paid 109.99 plus FREE shipping and this things worth every penny. Its quiet, only Half as loud as my whisperflow and the current draw is less than half my old pump. It WILL prime from empty return pipes just fill the basket with water. here are the specs:
    •120V/60Hz, 6.2A
    •Inlet & Outlet Thread: 1-1/2"
    •Liquid Temperature: 140 Degrees
    •1 HP Motor, 3450 rpm
    •3960 GPH Capacity
    •Corrosion resistant housing
    •Clear filter cover lets you see when full
    •Max Flow: 220 liters/min. = 58 gallon per min.
    Max Head height: 16m = 52ft.
    Max suction L. 9m = 29ft.
    •Built in strainer filter
    •Thermal overload protection
    Drainplug
    Rear high flow fan to activly cool heat sinks
    •6 ft. Cord

    If you want a great pump on a budget this is it. I think this would work well for your solar project if the flow rates are OK. There unfortunatly was to flow curve printed in the specs. If I can calculate them I will publish them. I will be posting my pics of my project that is currently underway shortly. Basically I plumbed the new pump in parralel with the old one and added ball valves to each pumps output, a switch controls which pump gets power from the timer. The Neiko is used for daily filtration, the whisperflow just for manual cleaning because of its extra grunt. I just open the appropiate valve for the pump I wish to use. I'm also adding check valves that the Pool Builder skipped! because my equip. slab is at least 50ft from the 32x17ft. IG pool and elevated 6 ft. above the water line.

    I do agree with the post above in regards to not pumping un filtered water into solar panels, i looked at a cross section at the pool store of a popular brand and the tubing is barly 1/4 inside. You could put a skimmer sock in the Neiko pumps strainer basket and that would eliminate having a second filter for the pool.
    20,000 gal. 32' x 17' freeform custom pool, 3ft. shallow - 8ft. deep end, Pentair Whisper flow 2.2 HP WF-6, Purex/Triton Nautilus FNS48 DE filter, 2 Intex Chlorine Generators (retired) SR Smith Rouge Rapids curved slide, The Pool Cleaner 4-wheel model w/Hayward large leaf canister. Tightwatt pool timer Spa: Beachport 5 person/350gal. Wishlist: move Neiko Tools pump to slide, solar system, Fountain, Automation. http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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    Join Date
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Ohh, the question about pipe size, 2" has nearly double the flow of a 1 1/2" pipe I was suprised by that but it's great, I did all my new work in 2" and reduce right at the Neiko pumps 1 1/2 ports. Max flow baby!

    I'm adding solar soon and will be using all 2" pipe
    20,000 gal. 32' x 17' freeform custom pool, 3ft. shallow - 8ft. deep end, Pentair Whisper flow 2.2 HP WF-6, Purex/Triton Nautilus FNS48 DE filter, 2 Intex Chlorine Generators (retired) SR Smith Rouge Rapids curved slide, The Pool Cleaner 4-wheel model w/Hayward large leaf canister. Tightwatt pool timer Spa: Beachport 5 person/350gal. Wishlist: move Neiko Tools pump to slide, solar system, Fountain, Automation. http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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    Join Date
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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    I just posted a review of that harbor freight 1" clear water pump under "pumping station"
    20,000 gal. 32' x 17' freeform custom pool, 3ft. shallow - 8ft. deep end, Pentair Whisper flow 2.2 HP WF-6, Purex/Triton Nautilus FNS48 DE filter, 2 Intex Chlorine Generators (retired) SR Smith Rouge Rapids curved slide, The Pool Cleaner 4-wheel model w/Hayward large leaf canister. Tightwatt pool timer Spa: Beachport 5 person/350gal. Wishlist: move Neiko Tools pump to slide, solar system, Fountain, Automation. http://www.poolcalculator.com/

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    Re: New System Setup - Advice - Remote Pump Location - Solar ??

    Quote Originally Posted by civicturbo
    I just posted a review of that harbor freight 1" clear water pump under "pumping station"
    Thanks for all of this info, it'll be really helpful. Should be digging the hole very soon.

    kd
    Richard
    Temecula, CA
    28,000 Gal. In-Ground plaster and tile, Total Control AutoPilot with SC-60 SWG and PH control, Pentair EasyTouch 8, EasyTouch Wireless Remote, Intelliflo VS+SVRS pump, Intellibrite lighting, Pentair Quad 100, Solar heating, Pentair Mastertemp 400 Gas Heater, The Pool Cleaner 4x, Aquabot Turbo T2 Robotic Cleaner, Water feature spillover from SPA.

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