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Thread: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

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    Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    I've just discovered the world of TFP, bought a test kit and and trying to get in balance.

    Data: SWG Aquarite in-ground plaster 2 years old 24,000 gallons; Taylor 2600 test kit

    Temp:58 deg F; Green Algae present on walls; suspicion of black algae in crevasses;

    Vitals: FC 3.2, PH 7.85, TA 110ppm, CH 230ppm, CYA 55

    Target: FC 4, PH 7.6, TA 110ppm (Aquarite says 80 to 120), CH 300, CYA 80 (Aquarite says this is best)

    Supplies Bleach 6%, Proteam PH down, Muratic Acid 32%, Aquachem Stabilizer, Aquachem Calcium Hardness increaser

    Quest 1: I'm trying to determine the best sequence. I was thinking fix PH, then shock (while CYA is lower), then fix CH and finally CYA. If I'm right, should I just shoot of FC of 24, rather than 32?

    Quest 2: The target gives me a SI of -.29. Is that okay? Should it be closer to zero? And if so, what would you change?

    Quest 3: Would you look at Target and make any suggestions.
    Thanks guys. Lew
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Welcome to TFP!

    Lower the PH, then start fighting the algae. When you are done fighting algae and the PH and FC levels are back to more or less normal add CYA and CH in either order or both at once. Long term aim for a lower TA level.

    With CYA at 55, shock level is between 17 and 24. There is no need to go above 24.

    An SI of -0.29 is just fine. Anything between -0.3 and 0.3 is just fine, and between -0.6 and 0.6 is more of less alright as long as it isn't headed out of that range.

    Long term, I suggest lowering your TA target level. We recommend TA between 60 and 80 with a SWG. There is no need to do this right away. TA will tend to drift down on it's own.

    When you have a moment, do some reading at Pool School, see the link in my signature or the top right of any page.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Welcome Lew!

    Jason pretty much covered things for you so I have little to add. Since you have to shock your pool, it's best to go with straight bleach for that. Won't hurt a thing and it gets that FC up there to shock level real quickly for you. With your water still being cold, your SWCG may not put out what you need it to. Get several jugs of the 6% bleach unless you already have a good stock.

    As Jason said, do lower your pH first and then bring the water up to shock level with bleach and hold it there until you stop losing FC overnight. Brush LOTS!

    If you haven't already done so, bookmark Jason's Pool Calculator on your computer. See the link for it in my signature line. It will be invaluable to you.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Make sure you brush the algae areas (esp. the susptected BA) really well while at shock level.
    Also don't be alarmed when your PH seems to get higher - FC levels over 10 will make the PH read false high.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Thanks very much. I've been yo-yo ing with pool chemistry for years (before I had a non-swg pool). You guys keep it up and you'll screw up the common view that people are just out for themselves.
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Hi lews and welcome to TFP

    Looks like you got all the info you need to get started.

    When you get a minute, please add your pool and equipment specs to your sig.
    Instructions in first article in Pool School.

    Now, when do we get to see a pic of that pool?
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
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    Need follow up help on Shocking SWG pool

    Topics Merged for Consistency by Moderator

    Data: SWG Aquarite in-ground plaster 2 years old 24,000 gallons; Taylor 2600 test kit

    Temp:58 deg F; Green Algae present on walls; suspicion of black algae in crevasses;

    Vitals: FC 3.2, PH 7.85, TA 110ppm, CH 230ppm, CYA 55

    Target: FC 4, PH 7.6, TA 110ppm (Aquarite says 80 to 120), CH 300, CYA 80 (Aquarite says this is best)

    About a week ago, I asked about shocking procedure (ie, whether to get CYA up first). The answer was to leave the CYA level and shock since I have visible algae. It was also recommended that shocking to 24 fc would be enough (the pool calculator said 32 for mustard and I had some suspicions about that and black algae). They also said to ignore PH spike because the shock would temporarily give me a false reading.

    Since then, 7 days ago, I've been pouring in the 6% bleach with no end in sight. On Wed, I decided that the algae was getting ahead of me somehow so I boosted the level to 32 fc but I'm still using up the bleach. Take yesterday for example,

    I checked the pool the night before and it was 32fc. At lunch yesterday, I had to add 3 182oz jugs. At 4pm, I added another 1.6 jugs. Then at 10pm, I added 3.6 jugs, then at 10 this morning, I added 1.5 jugs. This is pretty typical. Where is all the chlorine going?? I'm also brushing twice a day.

    There are stains on the wall (and some on the floor) that I can't be certain whether its algae or not. At first I thought it was algae but since it was going away (although it has lessened) I thought it was iron (I have a well with iron in it - the pool was filled, though, initially from city water. I put a tablet of ascorbic acid on it and it did go away, but I could also rub it really hard and get it almost to go away. I've ordered a bunch of ascorbic acid and plan on using it once I get through this shock treatment (using polyquat to keep algae at bay).

    My question is: is this normal to go a week trying to shock to a stable fc level?
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Yes, it can take week to shock some pools. There really is no magic number.

    Lets discuss the staining some more. In your OP you said you had visible green algae on the walls. How does that look now? The suspected BA? Do you see visible improvement in these areas?

    The stains you put Vitamin C on, these are on the wall and the floor, but these are not the same ones you mentioned before? What do they look like? It is entirely possible you have both issues going on. You can tackle the AA treatment once the algae has cleared up and the FC is holding.

    It sounds like you have read the AA treatment article?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Good morning,

    FC is consumed by two things.....sunlight and organics in your pool. If you are loosing FC overnight, you have organics in your pool.

    I would suggest you add the bulk of your FC in the hours when the sun is off the pool as it will help minimize the sunlight loss (although with a CYA of 55, you shouldn't be loosing much to the sun)

    It certainly is a somewhat unusual for you to use this much chlorine, but the first paragraph still applies....you have organics in the pool and chlorine is the answer.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
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    Need follow up help on Shocking SWG pool

    Deleted Duplicate Post. (Duplicate of 10:01AM post). Merged for consistency.

    PM sent to OP for explanation. Butterfly
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Where are you buying your bleach and what brand are you buying?

    I think you probably already know this, but, just trying to verify no dollar-store/super-discount-store bleach and good brand
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Need follow up help on Shocking SWG pool

    Normally you'd see improvement before a week, in my experience there is an improvement after the second day if you stay on top of the chlorine (which it sounds like you are doing). But the chlorine use you are seeing sure sounds like a heavy algae infestation that hasn't been controlled yet.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Need follow up help on Shocking SWG pool

    If you still have visible green algae, your bleach is getting used up very quickly trying to kill it. Keep at it, and eventually you will get it wiped out!

    8000 gallon 20' x 48" round vinyl frame pool, 12" sand filter (don't have the specs on the pump), TF100 test kit
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    "Shock" is a process, not a product!

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    Re: Need follow up help on Shocking SWG pool

    Thanks guys. I just wanted to know that my experience wasn't totally out in left field. I'll keep at it.
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    One thing that really helps is to add chlorine, wait 30 minutes, test, add more chlorine, repeating several times in a row. By doing the add/wait/test cycle over and over for a couple of hours, you make sure that the FC level actually gets up to the desired target level. The longer you wait between cycles the longer it can take to clear up the pool. Waiting in-between also hides problems like adding too little chlorine. You don't need to do this around the clock, but finding a couple of hours where you can really concentrate on the pool can really get the process off to a good start.

    One other possibility is that your CYA results are not correct. This seems less likely, but if there is any reason to doubt your CYA results, now is a good time to double check the CYA level and make sure you are raising FC up to a level appropriate to your CYA level (see this chart).
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Isn't polyquat using up a lot of chlorine?
    I read somewhere during my normal closing : schock, add polyquat, bring chlorine back to shock value, close pool.

    My question, should he be putting polyquat in his pool during his algea battle?
    Isn't the algea "prevention" treatment pretty much useless during the alge "kill" treatment?
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  17. Back To Top    #17
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    Adding polyquat to fight existing algae is essentially useless. However, lews was talking about adding polyquat during an ascorbic acid treatment after the algae is gone, which is a great idea.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Need help CYA went to zero -- Help on Shock SWG to balance

    After shocking, I put in POLY60 and then did the Ascorbic Acid treatment (which removed the stains) after about 18hours. Then I put in Purple Magic. Here's what I've got:

    FC 0
    PH 7.15
    TA 110
    Salt 3200
    CH 230
    CYA 0

    Before these treatments:

    FC 3
    PH 7.85
    TA 110
    Salt 3200
    CH 230
    CYA 55

    Where did the CYA go? (using K-2600)

    Should I bring it from 55 (the pre-project reading) to 80 (manufacturers recommendation)?

    What order should I go in to rebalance (I have power stabilizer, Calcium up and bleach)
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Rs Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    I put a sock of CYA in the skimmer and the stains started coming back and started the SWG (at regular, not superchlorinated setting). PH has increased to 7.45. I put in 6 cups of 31% muraitic and turned off the SWG.
    Chapel Hill, NC

    24,000 gallon kidney shaped gunite pool - Aquarite SWG
    Pentair Whisperflo 1 1/4 dual power Pump
    Cartridge Filter

  20. Back To Top    #20
    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Help on Shock SWG as trying to balance

    After an ascorbic acid (AA) treatment, at the very first sign of stains you need to lower the PH to between 7.0 and 7.2 and add more sequestrant (Jack's Magic The Purple Stuff is a sequestrant).

    You want to go very easy on the chlorine level after an AA treatment. I suggest turning the SWG down to a much lower than normal percentage to start with and ramp it up slowly from there.

    Sometimes CYA can disappear while you have algae, though that is relatively rare. It is also possible that there was some kind of testing error. I suggest adding enough CYA for about 40 ppm right now, wait a week, test it again to see where you are at that point, and adjust further from there.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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