New pool - what do you think of this equipment?

[riley00dog]

All sounds good. Not sure you need the boost pump after seeing Costas video. That’s very nice jet action.

 

[rickv]

Ah cheers, that makes sense. In our current pool the pool light broke and they quote between $500 and $1000 (AUD) to have it fixed. Mind you it was an old one and the bracket was c**p. But because it was below water level it was a hassle. Hassle = high costs.

 

[Costas > DownUnder]

Just checked the quote and they said:
40mm Return Pipework
50mm Suction Pipework

Should I request the return pipework to be 50mm as well?

Hi Rick,

It would be nice to have them specify all 50mm pipework. It is not as big a deal to have 40mm returns as the pool will probably have 2 returns. I would prefer 50mm throughout and it shouldn't be much more expensive.

Ideally I would opt for Class 12 pipework as well (same as schedule 40 for our US counterparts). This pipe is thicker walled and generally 'tougher' so in theory it should be more robust in the ground - See if the PB will install with 50mm Class 12 pipes throughout the build, as once its in...it's basically in...!

I had my pool done this way and the extra cost was only a few hundred to upgrade to Class 12 throughout.

The only 40mm run is for my solar run which is a separate independent circuit which runs off its own pump - also specified Class 12 for that run.

Just checked the quote and they said:We want two lights in the pool and it includes "Astral Connect Lite Multi Colour LED Including RF Remote & Bluetooth.", which I assume is Connect Lite + | AstralPool

Just had a quick look at the Astralpool's unit - Looks expensive - Get a price on the controller and lights. To give you an idea, the PAL LED lights I use cost just a tad over $1,100 for 2 lights and the WiFi controller/Driver unit.

At the end of the day it will depend on how much automation you want Vs overall cost to buy the devices.

Can you also easily turn the jets off when it is driven by one pump without actually turning valves manually? Or is that done by the controller? I don't really understand how this could work, unless the pump itself has valves that are mechincally opened/closed just for the jets/blower?

On my setup - its fully manual.. - ie. I have to physically move a valve that is in my equipment room but my room is near my pool. You can actually purchase motorised actuators that basically sit on top of the valve... Jandy Valve Actuator - Genuine - W4424 | eBay

Depending on the model they may not be compatible with Astralpool's controller as that controller seems to switch 240VAC for pumps etc. The motorised actuators eg: the Jandy type etc are 24V and are designed primarily to work with other Jandy electronics.


Unfortunately with Automation - most companies want to lock you in to their system and they also seem to charge expensive prices for it - Not much is cross compatible.

What is the LED driver?

The actual LED is what emits light. A typical pool light is made up of a number of LEDs.

Each LED only requires very low voltage eg: 3.5 Volts. Without getting too technical... The LEDs themselves are arranged in a particular way so that the whole lamp assembly (which contains a number of LEDs) usually requires say 24V DC at a particular level of current to function correctly.

Now your power source is generally 240V AC via the power outlet. So some electronics is required to step this voltage down to 24V and convert it to DC and at the same time control the current for the complete LED lamp.

The fancier LED lights which have different colors etc also have some extra stuff which allows you to vary the brightness of individual LED colours (Red, Green, Blue - RGB) which then allows the user to select from a number of colours such as say Magenta...

Now to do all this requires some electronics.

Some LED lights are designed to replace older pool lights which were just a normal 240VAC globe, so these pools will generally have a 240V cable running all the way right through to the pool light. There are LED lights that are designed to work directly off 240V AC and these will have the drive electronics all mounted together with the LEDs themselves.

Now as Dirk rightly pointed out - many retailers advertise LED pool lights (and many other LED lights) as long lasting eg: 50,000 hrs.

Generally this is BS... as the driver electronics will usually fail way before the 50,000 Hr mark is reached - yet they don't tell you that.

Also, while the LEDs themselves are generally long lasting another thing they don't tell you is that their light level drops with increasing usage. So if you have some LED lights that have been operating for thousands of hours their light output will not be as bright as a brand new one.

So having the LED driver electronics separate and easily accessible is generally a better option from a servicing perspective.

Below is a link I just quickly searched which shows a replacement LED lamp for my style of lights - Price is $99: PAL Colour Touch 4 wire light multi-colour 12 LED Lamp - 4 wire

A LED light that has an enclosed driver will usually be much more expensive and run into the hundreds of dollars and some get up in high hundred's range...!

In our current pool the pool light broke and they quote between $500 and $1000 (AUD) to have it fixed. Mind you it was an old one and the bracket was c**p. But because it was below water level it was a hassle. Hassle = high costs.

Yep...!

 

[Dirk]

Yep, my all-in-one is about $600US!! The first one that went out did so because of one little transistor. Probably a $2.00 part! That was under warranty, fortunately. We’ll see how long this next one lasts. If I had known about this two-part setup, if that’s even available in the US, I’da been all over that.

 

[malcomtent]

Awesome Riley, thanks again for your indepth reply.
Did some research on the robots, it's likely going to be a Zodiac TX35. Again increased the price by 220, but many good reviews and brushes the side as well. We don't have a pebble interior, just a "clean" fibreglass pool with blue sparkly paint.

Hi mate,

I'm in Sydney and in the market for a robot. Only just starting looking though. I have seen the dolphin x30 on display in a pool shop, but the dude was talking north of 2k, I bailed from the shop. He also was talking 4k + for a astral heatpump. Your quotes sound a little better.

I'll be interested to hear what you go for. I think most of the shops will demo the robot for you in your pool - if I am dropping >1k on something I want a test-drive.

Cheers

 

[rickv]

Hi Rick,

It would be nice to have them specify all 50mm pipework. It is not as big a deal to have 40mm returns as the pool will probably have 2 returns. I would prefer 50mm throughout and it shouldn't be much more expensive.

Ideally I would opt for Class 12 pipework as well (same as schedule 40 for our US counterparts). This pipe is thicker walled and generally 'tougher' so in theory it should be more robust in the ground - See if the PB will install with 50mm Class 12 pipes throughout the build, as once its in...it's basically in...!

I had my pool done this way and the extra cost was only a few hundred to upgrade to Class 12 throughout.

The only 40mm run is for my solar run which is a separate independent circuit which runs off its own pump - also specified Class 12 for that run.

Alright, I'll see what they'll say. If the 40mm for the return isn't that much of a biggie, I will probably leave it as is. We are stretching our budget. Class12 sounds like a good idea as we have quite a few bushes/trees between the pool and where the equipment will be.

Just had a quick look at the Astralpool's unit - Looks expensive - Get a price on the controller and lights. To give you an idea, the PAL LED lights I use cost just a tad over $1,100 for 2 lights and the WiFi controller/Driver unit.

At the end of the day it will depend on how much automation you want Vs overall cost to buy the devices.

It's only $550 extra for the second pool light with the controller.


Thanks (Dirk as well) for explaining what the driver does. I'll have to ask. I guess the builder is getting nuts from all my questions lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi mate,

I'm in Sydney and in the market for a robot. Only just starting looking though. I have seen the dolphin x30 on display in a pool shop, but the dude was talking north of 2k, I bailed from the shop. He also was talking 4k + for a astral heatpump. Your quotes sound a little better.

I'll be interested to hear what you go for. I think most of the shops will demo the robot for you in your pool - if I am dropping >1k on something I want a test-drive.

Cheers

Hey,

Astral heatpump with the poolbuilder, just under $2.2k (Astral HP88 9kW Heat Pump). With our existing pool we bought a heater independent of building the pool and we had the Evoheat Fusion 9 for $3300 installed.

The Zodiac TX35 is around $990 delivered.

 

[rickv]

Sooo, got the quote back

- Upgrade to grade 12 is +$260.
- Led lights have the (transformer I think he called it) near the equipment.
- The sand filter is Astral CA280 Glass Media Filter including Glass Media
- He said to have the equipment 12M - 15M from the Pool he advised to upgrade the pump from P320XT to Astral P520XT (+$400)

I am surprised by the cost of the bullhose/header tiles. $1720 :|

I have a rough quote for the fence and pavers. We are now $1650 over budget, I would have hoped we would stay under budget
Not sure if/where we could save $$. A robotic cleaner of a grant or the second pool light ($550) could be reduced.

 

[riley00dog]

I think and additional $1600 to build the pool by best practice and how you want it is very minimal in the scheme of things. In a perfect world it would be nice to come in at or below budget, but in reality the build changes as you learn and progress through the process. We estimated a 20% contingency, which was fairly accurate although when all was said and done we probably went over that if you include all the little pool build related things.

 

[malcomtent]

Astral heatpump with the poolbuilder, just under $2.2k (Astral HP88 9kW Heat Pump). With our existing pool we bought a heater independent of building the pool and we had the Evoheat Fusion 9 for $3300 installed.

The Zodiac TX35 is around $990 delivered.

Thanks Rick. Man, this is an expensive hobby. Reckon I could get helicopter trips to the beach for the cash I'm going to have to chuck around. I need a heat-pump, new robot, maybe a SWG or Chlorine doser (though I am OK with doing it manually for now).

Half my tiles are falling off - either an old job, or a bad job, + bad chemistry for years and years. This will end up costing thousands of bucks per swim if I am not careful!

Good luck with your budgeting and bargaining!

 

[rickv]

I think and additional $1600 to build the pool by best practice and how you want it is very minimal in the scheme of things. In a perfect world it would be nice to come in at or below budget, but in reality the build changes as you learn and progress through the process. We estimated a 20% contingency, which was fairly accurate although when all was said and done we probably went over that if you include all the little pool build related things.

Or maybe we just estimated it higher ;P Isn't too bad though.

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks Rick. Man, this is an expensive hobby. Reckon I could get helicopter trips to the beach for the cash I'm going to have to chuck around. I need a heat-pump, new robot, maybe a SWG or Chlorine doser (though I am OK with doing it manually for now).

Half my tiles are falling off - either an old job, or a bad job, + bad chemistry for years and years. This will end up costing thousands of bucks per swim if I am not careful!

Good luck with your budgeting and bargaining!

I'll be honest, if it wasn't for the wife and kids, I probably wouldn't have had a pool build. Oh well

You'd better start swimming a lot to make it worthwhile!

 

[rickv]

The pool has been ordered. I will keep you posted when they commence the building process (end of Nov)