Builder or BYOP in AZ

nicheel

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Silver Supporter
Aug 14, 2018
65
Litchfield Park, AZ
I've been doing my research and I have a question for everyone who priced out a pool from a builder then decided to build one on their own. Since we are building a play pool without many bells and whistles, is it still cost effective to do it on my own?

Here is what we are shopping for. Play pool, 80' perimeter, plaster interior, acrylic decking, baja step, some sleeves for umbrellas, couple of lights, robot cleaner, and one waterfall. I've been quoted anywhere from $29-35k.

If I built it on my own, can I really save that much?
 
We chose build our own because our quotes priced so much higher that it seemed ridiculous to pay that much for something I believed we could figure out with a lot of sweat. A basic L pool, with one light, single speed pump and not including electric, fence, retaining wall that we needed was 46000. My target for our build is 25000 with upgrades to the equipment and including electric, retaining wall and fencing. I am currently over budget by $500 because I bought lots of beer, food and gave some $ to our helpers this past weekend! I expect to go even further over budget if we hire someone to do our floor but we'll see as that gets closer. It seems different parts of the country the price to build a pool are much less. If quotes had come in around your range for the options you chose, I think I may have went with the builder. The sacrifices are lots of time, we have a very dirty house because we are always working on the pool and not keeping up normal chores. We started July 4th and have a couple weeks of work ahead of us still.
The price of the pool kit itself for us was not even half of our total budget. Our pool kit was about 11K so the additional money is rentals, plumbing, electric, fencing, concrete and stone deliveries. I probably should include ruined clothes, shoes and carpet as line items in our total pool cost! :D
 
We did an owner build on our pool, but we paid a friend of mine who is a PB to run the project for us as a consultant. So we paid all the subs directly, at my PB's cost, and then paid him 10% of the total for his fee.

Judging from what we paid the subcontractors, and comparing to quotes we got from 3 other builders, there is about a 20 to 25% markup (so we basically saved 10-15% after paying my friend).

Everything worked out really great, but I could not have done it without my PB friend as I have never owned a pool and never managed a construction project. If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, and what I have learned on this site, I would be totally comfortable doing it all myself.
 
I was really close to trying BYOP, but my wife felt that we just had too much going on with work, kids, and school. I got quotes from 3 of the biggest pool builders in Arizona and they were $42k-46k for our project (my budget was $40k). So I was convinced I needed to try BYOP to get under budget but then I called a smaller builder that came in at $37k and we got along great in multiple meetings. I signed a contract with them and we are just waiting on permits to get started.

I think my project was pretty similar to yours: mine is 90' perimeter, pebble finish, some travertine, 3 sheer descents and I posted some renderings in my introduction post. I did also add $5000+ for heat/cold pump to my pool. I saw that one builder in the valley (Dolphin) has an introductory pool package (80' perimeter) for $23,495; I had a friend use them and had no problem but that is not who I am using.

I guess I am just saying that you might be able to find another estimate that works better before you commit to BYOP. My biggest hangup was my wife didn't want to do it and every little thing that came up or caused delays that you know will happen, I didn't want to hear "I told you so." I hesitate to recommend my pool builder yet since we haven't even got started. I did due diligence to look how long they have been in business, checked the ROC and BBB and searched for referrals. Good luck with your decision; I felt I could have handled the BYOP process and part of me wishes still that I went that route.
 
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We did an owner build on our pool, but we paid a friend of mine who is a PB to run the project for us as a consultant. So we paid all the subs directly, at my PB's cost, and then paid him 10% of the total for his fee.

Judging from what we paid the subcontractors, and comparing to quotes we got from 3 other builders, there is about a 20 to 25% markup (so we basically saved 10-15% after paying my friend).

Everything worked out really great, but I could not have done it without my PB friend as I have never owned a pool and never managed a construction project. If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, and what I have learned on this site, I would be totally comfortable doing it all myself.

Great info. Thank you.

- - - Updated - - -

I was really close to trying BYOP, but my wife felt that we just had too much going on with work, kids, and school. I got quotes from 3 of the biggest pool builders in Arizona and they were $42k-46k for our project (my budget was $40k). So I was convinced I needed to try BYOP to get under budget but then I called a smaller builder that came in at $37k and we got along great in multiple meetings. I signed a contract with them and we are just waiting on permits to get started.

I think my project was pretty similar to yours: mine is 90' perimeter, pebble finish, some travertine, 3 sheer descents and I posted some renderings in my introduction post. I did also add $5000+ for heat/cold pump to my pool. I saw that one builder in the valley (Dolphin) has an introductory pool package (80' perimeter) for $23,495; I had a friend use them and had no problem but that is not who I am using.

I guess I am just saying that you might be able to find another estimate that works better before you commit to BYOP. My biggest hangup was my wife didn't want to do it and every little thing that came up or caused delays that you know will happen, I didn't want to hear "I told you so." I hesitate to recommend my pool builder yet since we haven't even got started. I did due diligence to look how long they have been in business, checked the ROC and BBB and searched for referrals. Good luck with your decision; I felt I could have handled the BYOP process and part of me wishes still that I went that route.

Thanks for the info. I have met with the big builders. Dolphin, Presidential, etc. and I have a meeting with a smaller guy tomorrow.

I love the challenge of a BYOP, but just thinking about the "I told you so" make me cringe. :blah:
 
I was trying to make the decision (BYOP/PB/OB as a GC) a few months back. At this point, my plan is to go true OB. I have received quotes on most major components and am just about ready to submit to the city for permit. Similar to the other posts mentioning savings % I'm in a similar range compared to what some PBs were quoting. I hope to include all of my budget information in my build thread.

An added benefit of the OB route is that I enjoy learning about what goes into something like this. This website is an amazing resource.

I'm in the process of updating my build thread with the information of my planned build. I'll have to figure out how to link that info into my signature.
 
As an OB you’ll have much better luck building in the off-season. The best subs are kept busy by the pros during peak build season, so you’ll be struggling to get them to your project when the people that feed them 95% of their work want them on their projects. YMMV.
 
Who did you use for construction drawings? We are in planning stages. Narrowed down a few designers but haven’t made a decision on who to use yet..
I am still trying to convince the overlord (my beautiful and understanding wife) that we don’t need a slide but it dosen’t seem to be working out in my favor.
 

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Dave from Pegasus Pools and Spas is who we are going with. Caribbean pools has about four signs up on our block. They are running a special/discount off their base package. However, we really liked Dave and the fact he will be onsite for the project, not just a sales guy. We are in Gilbert, AZ. Good luck.
 
Dave from Pegasus Pools and Spas is who we are going with. Caribbean pools has about four signs up on our block. They are running a special/discount off their base package. However, we really liked Dave and the fact he will be onsite for the project, not just a sales guy. We are in Gilbert, AZ. Good luck.

I think having a builder who is likeable and onsite are extremely important areas. Primarily because the builder's job is ultimately to communicate with and organize the subcontractors. If the builder is a good guy and the subs like him on a personal level, and like working with him, this will really help in the success of the project, particular if (or when) any problems come up along the way. The highest quality subcontractors often have a choice of which builders they work for, and that choice does not always come down to just money.
 
We did an owner build on our pool, but we paid a friend of mine who is a PB to run the project for us as a consultant. So we paid all the subs directly, at my PB's cost, and then paid him 10% of the total for his fee.

Judging from what we paid the subcontractors, and comparing to quotes we got from 3 other builders, there is about a 20 to 25% markup (so we basically saved 10-15% after paying my friend).

Everything worked out really great, but I could not have done it without my PB friend as I have never owned a pool and never managed a construction project. If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, and what I have learned on this site, I would be totally comfortable doing it all myself.

We did a similar arrangement with our builder as scdaren. In general (for our market), a builder will put about 25% - 30% margin on their direct costs to cover their overhead, risk, warranty costs, insurance, profit margin, etc.

One thing I will add. In some markets, the trade base is somewhat closed off to the public. They don’t want to compete with builders at the risk of competing with and alienating their primary clientele (General Contractors).

So if trades are willing to deal (& hassle) with individual customers, they typically price in the risks that come along with a virgin, one-time business relationship like that.

So while you might cut out the middle man (so-to-speak), your savings are likely not the full margin - and can even be worse than through the GC.

I worked in general contracting for 13 years before this pool build and did some pricing for myself before I signed a contract with the local builder. While the back of the truck type businesses were less expensive, the well known contractors with established reputations in town (plaster, gunite, excavation) either wouldn’t quote a home owner or would quote things sky high. So at the end of the day, it made sense for us to go through a GC. (Note: Other subs like rebar, tile/coping, electrician, decking were much more open to working with individuals, but the aforementioned big trades were harder to get good pricing on.)

It’s also worth noting that BYOP and % cut arrangements put a lot of the builder risk on your pocketbook. So when things go wrong, if the contractor isn’t to blame or won’t accept the blame, you are stuck paying for the mishaps.

Good luck with your decision and build!

Edit: I have heard that AZ is a much more open market to owner builds than East Texas - so your savings may be more attainable and tangible than here in the Houston area
 
Dave from Pegasus Pools and Spas is who we are going with. Caribbean pools has about four signs up on our block. They are running a special/discount off their base package. However, we really liked Dave and the fact he will be onsite for the project, not just a sales guy. We are in Gilbert, AZ. Good luck.

That is the PB we also went with in Gilbert. We have Kane on our job instead of Dave. As I said above, I am not really in a position to recommend them since we are just getting started, but everything up until now has been great.
 
We did an OB and started last fall. Subs were easy to get a hold of and easy to work with. We saved considerable money going the OB route and also got the exact pool we were wanting. Our first pool we used a builder and had nothing but problems with them. If you have the time and are willing to learn the process, doing it yourself is totally feasible. It was a bit of learning the first time through but doing it again would be a piece of cake. You can check out my post on our owner build if you like. We are in Peoria.
 
We did OB for our last pool and are doing it again (in Gilbert). We used a guy who drew the plans and we got his subs list. I had to contact all of them but didn't have any problems. That was back in '06. Now, I guess, he actually has the subs send us bids, according to his website. We saved quite a bit and I liked having more control. I also liked that we could choose options that we wanted instead of just what the builder offered. One example was our waterfall. I couldn't believe how much the builders wanted for the small size when we got a much bigger one for less using rocks of our choosing. It's been too long to remember prices though. We also got it built in 3 weeks. The company is Your Pool Your Way.
 
After just finishing building with a pb I will say that no one will ever care more about your build than you. If I knew then what I know now I would absolutely ob with a mentor if possible and a ton of research. There are definitely good pbs out there. Our experience was mixed but despite currently dealing with a leak we are happy with the overall outcome. The care and attention to detail you will have with your build will be evident in the finished product. Run photos of all stages here before moving on to the next stage. There are many people who have the expertise and eagle eye to pick up on issues. Good luck and looking forward to following your build whichever way you go.
 
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