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Thread: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

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    Water_man's Avatar
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    "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    I used to get my MA at the local pool supplies store because Home Depot stopped carrying it. Now the store is carrying "Acid Magic" instead, described here. I called the manufacturer, Certol, and I was told that the HCl content is similar to that of MA, but because of the addition of undisclosed buffers it's safer to use because it doesn't fume and doesn’t burn the skin.
    The video clip at the link shows acid being poured on a hand held egg. The egg's shell is dissolved by the acid but the man's hand isn't harmed.
    I wonder if anybody knows about this product and if the additives are safe for a trouble free pool.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    I've been wanting to know what's in this for a long time but never found out.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Over here in Europe when requested manufacturers must supply a Material safety data sheet (MSDS) these are really helpful for discovering what is in various products.

    I wonder if it is white vinegar (acetic acid) very good for disolving eggshell (party trick)

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    The MSDS shows that it is mostly muriatic acid, without revealing anything else.

    If you don't have any cuts or scratches you can pour muriatic acid over your hand without any serious problems, so that aspect of their video is misleading. It will still damage clothing just as quickly as regular muriatic acid. The big difference is that it fumes dramatically less. I have never considered the fumes to be a major problem, hardly worth the dramatically higher price for Acid Magic to get rid of them.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    If fumes are a concern, one can use the half-strength Muriatic Acid since it fumes a lot less (though it still fumes). Of course, one should try to get it at half the price for the same quantity -- some stores try and sell it for the same price as full-strength and sell it in the pool section compared to the full-strength sold in the acid washing (concrete) section of the hardware store.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    It's possible there's some Armohib in there. (Cationic fatty amines)

    http://www.surface.akzonobel.com/bulletins/Armohib.pdf

    These additives do suppress HCl fuming a lot although I agree with the other posts about possible dilution and the misleading video trick (he had a bucket of cold water nearby!) Also, I think sulfamic acid and urea can help fuming too.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Interesting link. Thanks for the info. If this is what is being used, then it allays my concern for the quantity of "extra" product and what it might be. It's a very small amount given normal acid additions and not a big deal.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Does the MSDS have a contact phone number? Maybe they'd be willing to tell you over the phone.
    --paulr
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Does the MSDS have a contact phone number? Maybe they'd be willing to tell you over the phone.
    --paulr
    I called the manuf., Certol Intl., (800 843 3343) while I was at the store and I looked at the MSDS at home. The MSDS discloses little. Certol's rep told me that the concentration is almost like regular Muriatic Acid, plus his product contains undisclosed buffers.

    I decided that since I don't want to add to my pool any unknown chemicals I won't use this product and try and get MA elsewhere.

    Had we had here a good base of satisfied users it would have been different.
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Considering that our basic premise is to not add unknowns or undesirables to our pools, it's no surprise that we don't have a good base of users satisfied with those particular undisclosed buffers.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy
    Considering that our basic premise is to not add unknowns or undesirables to our pools, it's no surprise that we don't have a good base of users satisfied with those particular undisclosed buffers.
    It's another show of strength and importance of this forum
    This is my ticket for Heaven (when all's working..) :
    22k Gal gunite IGP, 38 SF Anthony DE filter, 1 HP Hayward Super Pump
    380k BTU Raypak Natural Gas Heater (Model RP405A) and solar cover
    8 gal Liquidator w/ 12% bleach, Dolphin Diagnostic Advantage robotic cleaner. 3800 ppm salt, 50 ppm borates.

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    I used to use it for acid washing pools. It costs a lot more but is worth it if you cant handle the fumes. I would only use it for acid washing though - I don't think its worth the high cost just for routine pH maintenance.
    Gilbert, Arizona
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohm_Boy
    Considering that our basic premise is to not add unknowns or undesirables to our pools, it's no surprise that we don't have a good base of users satisfied with those particular undisclosed buffers.
    Excellent point. Only when you fully understand every component going into the pool are you able predict any outcome pertaining to balance. The other ingredients may be inert, but unless you know what they are, you cannot know for certain.
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Pooled
    certainly not going to the hospital in the event it gets on my skin.
    Welcome to TFP.

    Just wanted to aleve some scare here. WARNING .. I have very delicate skin, and have spent my life avoiding products that irritate me.

    I've used MA for many things, most of my adult life, with NO problems or issues. I've been a "handy person - girl scout" since I was a tot. Almost forgot; DH is M.D., I'm RN among other training.

    My mother told me (many years into adulthood) that, when I a newborn, the first time she put clothing or blanket, etc., on me, that wasn't cotton and double/triple rinsed I started screaming and instantly broke out in a rash. It's been that way all my life, as far as fabrics, dyes, and perfumes, additives, etc.. Most medical tapes, used on my skin cause open blisters after a few hours. If my dentist, who has the tiniest hands, uses the wrong gloves I come home with fever blisters starting. On and on and on. There are a few fabrics that have worked well, especially with new, sustainable products, like hemp, bamboo, Tencel, etc. Many Rayon fabrics hold dyes well and are easy care but not linen. Thank goodness for Polyester blends, too, for ease of care. Nylon and acrylic torture me.

    Many here know that gg can't be "delicate". Mainly it's her skin only. And aging typically makes skin get more and more delicate. I passed over the big 60 last year. Animal teeth and nails tear my skin more easily now than just a few years ago.

    I've acid washed my pool three times in 24 years, last time as I was approaching 60. I wear safety goggles, and put heavy baby sunscreen on my face for protection and place several box fans around the pool edge to pull fumes away especially when working in the 10 ft deep end.

    See how I dress when acid washing my pool. http://www.troublefreepool.com/post-...lf-t21420.html

    As long as I rinse the acid off within a few seconds, 10 or so, I don't even feel much sting. I've never, ever gotten a burn from 3x.x MA AND there's always water around for a quick rinse ........ that's the secret.

    Another secrete is to always assume that there will be fumes, and like smoke from a camp fire, it will always "head right in your direction", so check the wind and keep your face as far away from the bottle as possible opening it our using it.

    Just my un-humble opinion.

    gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    BTW.... most animal hair/dander have little affect on me; only products used on animals (or humans). I do get anaphylaxis from honey bee stings (we have kazillions out here and I haven't had a honey bee sting, out here, in 24 years - some of that is using unscented personal and other products and not "freaking out" when they land on ones body or swarm around) and Rhesus monkey hair/dander but no problem, so far, with New World monkeys and I've been around them a lot.

    Our mosquitoes love me. On rare occasions I don't have some kind of unscented repellent on or around me and get a bite from a particular type, of several, we have here I get silver dollar sized welts. Same with my house/animal/pool sitter friend.

    Just like the importance of having water around using acids (or bases), EpiPen kits are even more important. If you don't have one of those, and go into anaphylaxis, you will go to hospital but may not be alive when you get there. I always keep at least one kit within a few yards, at all times; more than one kit when traveling, especially out of country. I wouldn't even consider using any acid or base, no mater how weak or strong, without having water around.

    It's some of those alkaline/base products that scare me more.

    Shoot ......... MA is one of the most benign things in my life.

    gg=
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Muriatic Acid is most dangerous if it gets into your eyes (or if you were to drink it, but that would be difficult to do even accidentally I would think) so wearing eye protection is probably the most important safety factor for this product.

    The fumes can be really irritating, but that's actually a good thing in the sense that it becomes very irritating long before it becomes dangerous, assuming you move away from the fumes as soon as you catch a whiff. It's an early warning system and much better than odorless gasses that can kill you (e.g. carbon monoxide). The half-strength (15-16%) product fumes less so if you can get it at half the price of full-strength (31.45%), then this is a decent option.

    You can, of course, get acid burns on skin, but as noted by GG, it has to be a more sustained exposure.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Off topic but a comment about welts from mosquito bites... Find some green clay masque product at a drug store or grocery store and put a thin layer over the bite. It will take away the itch and the welt also. Unbeatable for bites on the face or difficult areas like toes and knuckles where the toxin seems to stay forever.

    I have some clay masque that I got from the dollar store, St Ives brand, and some that came from the grocery, Freeman brand "Beautiful Skin Avocado & Oatmeal Facial Clay Masque." Forget about the oatmeal or avocado, it is the green clay that is important. Both of these are in fat toothpaste-like tubes. I've also gotten it as Aztec Secret as dry clay to be mixed with vinegar or with water. The tubes are easiest to deal with, the dry form gives a better facial. Get the cheapest you can find.

    The green clay is bentonite, yes the same bentonite that is used in drilling mud. I know I could probably get it in 100 lb sacks from an oil well service company but I am not quite sure about it there is any difference. Some facial clays also add kaolin clay which is pottery clay but I think that is for smooth texture, not so much for adsorption.

    Anyhow, the same effect of pulling out impurities that makes for a good facial is what makes it draw the toxins out of a bite.

    Put it on the entire itchy and red area, for if you have scratched you may have spread the toxins around. It will sooth and calm the itch right away. Be sure to wash your fingernails if you have scratched. Let the clay dry, then gently wash off or just wipe with a damp cloth.

    I got the idea to do this after someone mentioned that when their cat got bit by a rattlesnake it went under the house to lay in the mud. The cat recovered after some time. Made me think there was some native wisdom about toxins to be gained there. Mosquitoes LOVE me and I get welts the size of dimes usually, sometimes larger, and if I scratch I can transfer it to another place on my fingernails. So I tried this and found that it works really well.

    You can also use ammonia, but it does not work nearly as well. I noticed that some of the anti-itch sticks that I'd buy had only ammonia listed as the ingredient. Wow, $6 for a half oz of ammonia in a tube, what a business model! Anyhow, if you can't find ammonia, Windex does contain some and it can help.
    23,000 gallon in ground pool with rock waterfall and spillover spa, Aqualink control system, Polaris 380 cleaner, Purex Triton Clean&Clear Plus cartridge filter. Located in The Woodlands, Texas.

    Pool owner since Nov 2008, Trouble Free since April 2009. Happy to help when I can.

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    Re: "Acid Magic" as an alternative for Muriatic Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by anonapersona
    Off topic but a comment about welts from mosquito bites... Find some green clay masque product at a drug store or grocery store and put a thin layer over the bite. It will take away the itch and the welt also. Unbeatable for bites on the face or difficult areas like toes and knuckles where the toxin seems to stay forever.
    Off Topic Too

    Thanks very, very much. I know about the knuckle thing. A couple of years ago a scorpion zapped me twice on the same knuckle. The most painful scorpion "zap" I've ever had. It kept me awake for nights. Next week a red wasp got me on the same knuckle. They must have been in cahoots. It throbbed at night for weeks. (Noticeable mostly at night because I'm always banging around working inside and out, getting tiny injuries every day and occasionally not so tiny .) For many months after, every month or so, it would flare up and throb for a few nights. I'm now left with arthritis like symptoms in the joint which I never had before the stings. I have severe arthritis in my dominate hand thumb. A couple of doctors, in past couple of years, tested me for Rheumatoid arthritis because it looks like it; so far negative and I'm hoping it is not a false negative which is common in testing for RA. That's the only place I have any visually observable arthritis and, at times it can be quite painful. Rest of arthritis is just aging and life long, very active life style, with some injuries along the way to add to the insult.

    When the "zapped joint" was flaring it was more painful than the thumb, with a few exceptions when I really stress the thumb. When I feel a bite that is more painful than usual, and not knowing what is was that got me, I usually apply snakebite kit suction to the area immediately but I couldn't get suction on the knuckle. Works great on wasps and scorpion stings. When I got the Black Widow and Brown Recluse bites I didn't even know I had been bitten until symptoms started. Wish I had know about the clay and glad to know now.

    Next time the doggies get snake bite, almost always Copperhead, now days, as the Rattlesnake population decreased significantly after the lake completed filling. Record size GIANTS and smaller, were fleeing and we were right in the path of the migration so we saw several a week. I'll put some clay on when I give the Benadryl; antibiotics after Benadryl. If the swelling doesn't stop within a few minutes then we know it might be rattlesnake. It might help some. Even Copperhead bites can cause some serious local tissue damage but I've only seen the really bad local damage in humans. Never on any of my dogs and we've had loads of doggie Copperhead bites over the years. One day three dogs at the same time. Both times Jake has gotten Copperhead bites to face, he didn't come in until a while after bite with lots of swelling already and very little sensitivity to area; Mr. Stoic. Mastiffs are War Dawgs after all. Doodles, each with bite on a foot, acted shocky even before swelling started. Sissies. I had to carry one in the house after he dragged himself up the steps from the woods and then plopped down, whimpering, and refusing to move. They both whimpered for an hour after treating them. So where's that robust hunting half Mr.s Labradoodles? Their momma is a "field bred", working, hunting Lab afterall.

    Again thanks, gg=alice
    1981, 25K, IG, Blue Plaster 1996, somewhat oval, widens a bit at shallow end, 1.5" pipes, 2" at Pad, 1 separate main drain, 1 skimmer, 4 returns + dedicated cleaner return, 10 ft deep end with very fast decline from shallow, Pentair Quad 80 DE, Pentair Intelliflo VF, 3/4 HP Booster Pump (equipment pad about 8 ft below top of pool), Challanger 3/4 Trash/Emergency Pump 120v, Polaris 280 (pressure), iRobot Verro cleaner (robotic), Aquabot Turbo (robotic), Jacuzzi Tracker 4X (vacuum) Pool Blaster (Buster), Two (2) PoolSkims, Solar Breeze (solar powered top skimmer) (beta to ver. 2, release date 2010), ColorSplash LED replacement bulb. Aries 550 gal separate spa, 2002 (our 3rd and BEST spa) , BBB-Bromine

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