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Thread: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

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    Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    FC 1, TC 5, PH 7.2, CH 370, TA 70, CYA 8, Phosphates 1000, Copper .09, Iron 0, TDS 1050

    Hi! I will start from the beginning. We opened this year with a clear pool. The pool is only one year old. We just moved here this spring, so it is our first year with it. We got everything balanced and went to easy pool after it was suggested by the pool company (Yes, we now know that was not a good decision!!!). We followed easy pool instructions and after about the third week, the water smelled like a pond. Two day after that, it turned green. Now this wasn't a pond scum green, but a pretty minty green. We did what the pool company told us to do. We treated for metals, shocked with easy pool, shocked with chlorine, put a filter treatment in . . . After it got extremely cloudy, it slowly cleared up. But it was still minty green and clear. My husband looked over your website and bought a taylor test kit and is converting the pool to the BBB system. It is ten days since easy pool was added. We have shocked it several times with chlorine and it is blue and clear. We think it is the normal color it should be. Since shocking has not gotten rid of the combined chlorine, we don't know where to go from here. Our chlorine results are from the DPD test, but we have ordered the FAS. Also, before we put in the easy pool we had a CYA of 100. Where did it go? We are afraid to add any, since we don't know if the easy pool has locked it up or something similar. We will really appreciate your help. We want to enjoy the pool, not worry about it. You have a terrific website that has been a great help already. Also . . . there was nothing easy about easy pool. Thanks.
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    How do you feel about draining some water out?

    Your copper level is very, very high, and you are risking copper staining (difficult to remove) of the fiberglass, not to mention green hair.

    If you don't have sequesterant in there now, get some in today, HEDP based.

    I believe, if your FC and TC numbers are correct, your CYA was converted to ammonia. A TC chlorine of 5 and a FC of 1, means you have a CC level of 4 which is very high, and could indicate the CYA converted to ammonia.

    I think you should do a series of partial drains (1/3 down at a time) and refills to get the copper levels down, then start to rebalance. The fresh water will also reduce the possible ammonia levels and help with less of a chlorine demand.

    If you can head to a Petsmart or Pet shop and ask them to test your water for ammonia, or see if they have a test kit. Then you can confirm this.

    Either way you don't want your copper level that high. Maintaining thru the use of sequesterants to prevent staining would be very expensive, so you might be better off replacing water.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Debrann,

    I think fpm overlooked a decimal. A copper test of .09 should not be an issue.

    That leads back to algae being the very likely issue.

    I suggest getting CYA in your pool up to around 40ppm and then shocking the pool to around 16ppm, (remember....shocking is a process, not an event)

    If you'll keep the FC up around 16 all the time, I think that will quickly burn off your excess CC's and your pool will be troublefree.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    You are sooo right Dave - I misread the level as higher.

    Disregard my advice to drain - shock away!

    (But for that matter, why would that level even register on their testing equipment? )
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Well, that CYA seems to be a bit contrary. I suggest you have it tested again via another source to confirm the #'s before you add any more. Better safe than sorry.

    When will you receive you new test kit?

    Welcome to the forum
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Thanks so much for all the replies. You are right the CYA has us baffled as well. We have checked the CYA several times with a Taylor test kit and the pool supply company has tested it twice, so we feel sure it is 0 (the pool company came up with 7 the first time and 8 the second time???????). We have just begun shocking with 6% bleach and are adding CYA through a sock in the skimmer to reach the minimum number per the pool calculator. The PH and TA are still stable at this point. We ordered the TF-100 test kit today and are patiently awaiting it's arrival to get an accurate DPD-FAS test (Thanks Dave). Thanks to everyone for all the help! Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Here are our new readings after following Dave's instructions:
    FC .5
    CC 3.0
    PH 7.2
    TA 90
    We have been shocking up to 16--3 times per day. We are using our new DPD-FAS testing kit. We have added baking soda because our PH and TA were a little low. We also put in the calculated amount to raise the CYA in a sock in the skimmer. We had also been aerating to raise the PH. We have stopped now because we are wondering if the aeration could be adding to our chlorine loss. Also does a solar cover on during the night hours help with the chlorine? We would appreciate your help with these questions. Thanks for the help. Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Your pH is fine. No need to aerate.

    Leave the cover off during the day to allow the sun to help destroy CC.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Thanks for the reply. We just checked the chlorine after shocking it about an hour ago. Here are the results:
    FC 6
    CC 3.5

    Yeah!!!! This is the first time we have shown FC above .5 since all this started. The pool is clear and beautiful. Hopefully we don't have too much farther to go. Dave said about 48 hours. It has been 24.
    Thanks again for the help! Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Dave said about 48 hours.
    If you continue to replenish the chlorine back to shock level. Did you bring it back to 20+ after the 6ppm test last night? Have you done so again this morning? Keep your FC up there by at least twice daily replenishments and you a very, very close.
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    We got our test kit from you today. That was really fast service. We are very impressed with the kit and the service. We shocked up to 20 this afternoon and we just did again. The combined chlorine is at 2.0. We will check and shock again in the morning. The FC has been dropping quickly, so we will be shocking 3 to 4 times a day, now to 20. Thank you for all your help! It is so nice to have a clear pool!
    Thanks again! Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Hi! Here is what we have done today.
    7:55 a.m. FC 2 CC 1.5 add 4.2 gal of 6%
    9:15 a.m. FC 22.5 CC 1.5
    11:15 a.m. FC 14.5 CC 1.5 add 3 qt. of 6%
    1:15 p.m. FC 15.5 CC 1.0 add 3 qt. of 6%
    3:15 p.m. FC 14.5 CC 1.5 add 1 gal. of 6%
    5:15 p.m. FC 16 CC 1.5 add 3 qt. of 6%
    10:30 p.m. FC 13 CC 2 add 5.6 qt. of 6%

    Our stabilizer is at 25 and should still be raising, since it was added on Wed. in a sock and should increase more.
    Our PH is holding steady at 7.2 and TA is 100. We will check again in an hour, add anything, if needed and quit until morning.
    Are we still on the right track?
    We are surprised that we haven't got rid of the CC after all this. We would appreciate any suggestions and/or help.
    Thanks for all the help!!
    Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Quote Originally Posted by frustratedpoolmom
    (But for that matter, why would that level even register on their testing equipment? )
    Probably either a low range copper test or a colorimeter. It's not really that low a reading, it'a almost .1 ppm. It is below a level high enough to act as an algaestat but, under the right conditions, could cause the water to color or could deposit as stain. Since the OP stated that they treated for metals I suspect the copper levels are much higher but are seqestered for the moment. It is important to maintain the seqesterant on a regular basis to prevent further problems from the copper. The copper has probably come from the EZ POOL. Unless they have changed the formula of that stuff it's copper sulfate and some other things mixed together. At least it's not being sold as a pool sanitizer anymore! I guess the EPA finally cracked down on that one!

    FPM, your gut instincts are right on the money! The copper is a red flag as is the use of EZ POOL!
    Draining is not as bad an idea as some others might think!

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    I forgot to tell you in my previous post that the water is now crystal clear. It looks perfect. We can't seem to get rid of the CC. We only put EZ Pool in for 4 weeks. We will go and have the copper checked at the pool store tomorrow to see what it is now. If I understand, you are saying that the copper could be causing the combined chlorine and that if that is true the only solution would be to drain the pool.
    Thanks for your help.
    Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    no, the coppper will not cause CC. However, it stays in the water until it deposits as stain on the pool or turns someone's hair green. You added a metal treatment ( a sequestrant) that temporarily 'deactivated' the copper, which is why it is reading low. However, sequesterant needs to be added in a maintenance dose every week to month, depending on how high the metal level is and a lot of other factors. Draining is the only way to lower the copper level. FWIW, copper stains on fiberglass are very difficult to remove.
    Your CC problem is not related to the copper and, IMHO, the copper is a more serious problem.

    You said you had a CYA of 100 and then it dropped to 0 and now you have a hugh chlorine demand and persistent CC that you can't get rid of? If there is a pet store or aquarium store near you that tests aquarium water have your pool tested for ammonia. If there is ANY ammonia in the water at all that is the cause of the problem. Ammonia can be a product of the destruction of CYA by certain bacterial.

    The cure is to keep shocking the pool until the CC is gone and the FC is holding. Since you have a fiberglass pool do not be afraid to 'nuke' it (shock to a very high level, say 30-40 ppm). It will speed the process up.
    No swimming in the mean time.

    Draining would also help if there is ammonia in your pool, btw.

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Thank you so much for all the info. We will go tomorrow and get everything, including the copper and ammonia, checked.
    We will nuke it now.
    Wow, there is so much to learn. I sure wish we had not tried the EZ Pool. We were doing great before that.
    We appreciate all your help.
    Thanks!
    Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Hi! We shocked to 35 last night and then again this morning. Our test results right now (5 hours
    after shocking) are as follows:

    FC 20
    CC 1.5
    PH 7.2
    TA 110
    CYA almost 30 (we guessed at 25)


    We took sample to pool company and here are their results (we ran our tests as soon as we got back
    from the pool company):

    Ammonia 0
    FC 2.4
    CC 7.6
    PH 7.1
    TA 0
    CH 173
    CY 8
    Copper 0.3 (the copper was 0 on the July 18. We put EZ Pool in one more time on the 19th)
    Iron 0
    TDS 1610 (the TDS was 800 on July 18. It has been climbing over the last 2 weeks. We put EZ Pool in one more time on the 19th)

    Here is what they told us at the pool company.
    1. There is so much chlorine that it has bleached out the water and the copper reading
    isn't a true reading. Looking at previous test results, they feel the copper is really
    at a normal level. He knew we had put a sequestrant in about 10 days ago. He said
    with all the chlorine, there were no sequestrants remaining.
    2. He said the TA probably wasn't true, again because there was so much chlorine in it.
    3. He tested the ammonia and it was 0.

    We feel comfortable with their ammonia and PH readings, but we don't feel comfortable with
    the rest of their readings. We feel like our readings are right on. We can't test for the copper, so
    we don't know what to think about it. All of our previous copper tests there had been .09 or below.
    The only reason we put the sequestrant in was because the pool company said to. They came out and looked at the water. They thought it looked like the water was a metals color. The color did
    not come out with the sequestrant. After shocking 2 or 3 times (only to 10), the water became clear
    and has been clear ever since.

    Again, the pool looks absolutely perfect, clear, sparkling. The water temp. is 81.

    If draining is the only way out, let us know and we will start today.

    Thanks again for all the help. We really appreciate it!
    Thanks!
    Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    How do your copper levels compare to your tap water?

    If the CYA wasn't destroyed, it left your pool. Do a leak check. The process is prolly done in detail here somewhere but I'm new so I'll do a fast one.

    1) Place weight in a bucket brick or something.
    2) Place the bucket on your 1st step in your pool.
    3) Add water to the bucket until its the same as the water level in your pool.
    4) Mark a line on the inside of the buckets water line and the outside of the buckets water line.
    5) Turn off your auto-fill, but leave pump running as normal.
    6) Wait 24 hours, if the water level in your pool is lower than the control mark in the bucket you have a leak.

    - Sounds like your trying to chlorinate a running stream.

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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Thanks for the info. We do not have an auto fill and our level has remained constant. We have not added any water all summer. We have pumped a little out during June due to rain, but that's it.
    Again, thanks so much for the response.
    Debbie
    10,000 gallon IG fiberglass pool.
    4 cartridge filter
    1 hp hayward pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: Where did my CYA go? Help with CC.

    Given the amount of chlorine you have put in the pool, I still suspect ammonia was/is the issue and it will be a couple of weeks of constant chlorinating to oxidize it. I don't trust the pool store's test results.

    You can check the petshops for ammonia testing or just continue to shock, either way you have to do that to get the CC down. But ammonia explains the problems and the dissappearing CYA. There are copper testing kits available but who knows - We don't know if any of their test results are reliable.

    I'd keep using a sequesterant for a while, eventually you shouldn't need it as the water is replaced the level should come down. Mine used to be very high, now I have none.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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