science behind salt-CYA verses liquid bleach/cya connection-cost, health, science

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i'm sorry, busy day. it's my thread and you're better at posting on it than i am! i took pics of water earlier and will post them tonight. looks crystal clear to me but what do i know. i like cheap wine, too, and i'm not a water connoisseur either YET.

i already sent an email canceling the swimming part of the party so too late for that since I said there was algae and i shocked the pool. it's a bummer but it's not the worst thing in the world. i knew there was a chance it was safe but I still didn't like the idea of that amount of chlorine since I don't know all the kids. The party is going to be small and my son doesn't love the cold water in the eve when the party will be taking place. It's a party after the party at the jumpy place since it seemed not too many kids were coming so I added this on. i'd have a really hard time trying to tell the parents it'll be fine cuz the CYA/chlorine ratios now.

i'll check back in a bit even though you're prob in bed-East coast time. hoping i don't have to go through a lot of steps to download the pics. i used to have to download them to the PC and then here. I'm hoping i can do it straight from my phone this time. Thankyou so much for your care and attentiveness/info!
 
well, i can't' believe how fast i went through my 2d bottle of R-0871. i finished the other one a couple days ago and thought this one was full. testing and retesting used up all the bottle. i don't know that i'll have enough for the morning. :(
i also just tested it and it's at 33 now. i'm pretty sure i recall unplugging the cell last time i added acid around 6pm-101 oz cuz i was at 22.5.
i'll look on TFTestKits website to see how quick I can get more. Or is there a local store where I can pick something up? can i trust what the pool store would sell me? is now a good time to switch the kind of kit i use? i think fast is my priority now. I've got plenty of chlorine, though. [insert emoji of banging head against wall. there's none here. cuz it's the nicest forum in the world :eek:]
 
I see JoyfulNoise has got you covered in this thread.

The only thing I could possible add is to stop testing your pH and stop aerating until you are completely through the SLAM process. Focus only on testing and dosing the chlorine - and brush the pool a couple times a day. As I suggested to you last summer, try to do only one thing at a time - and right now, that's focusing on the SLAM.

Since you're running out of testing reagents..... Find the nearest A&M Corsons - they stock a full setup of Taylor test kits and reagents. Certainly not the cheapest you can find, but if you're in a pinch and cannot wait to get more from TFTestkits - they have them. Check quantities of R-0871 reagent and R-870 powder. That's the ones you need to properly complete your SLAM.Hold off on buying any other reagents from them for now - cause, like I said, they aren't the cheapest.

If I recall, you're in Ahwatukee - so the one on Elliott & Alma School may be the closest. Locations AM Corsons
I'm positive the one on Warner & McQueen has both of those reagents - I was just there today getting bleach (12.5% liquid chlorine).

Do yourself a big favor - don't discuss your SLAM or pool with them - just say you need some Taylor reagent refills. Discussing your pool or SLAM with the pool store will only add to your frustration and waste valuable time.
 
proavia said:
I see JoyfulNoise has got you covered in this thread.

The only thing I could possible add is to stop testing your pH and stop aerating until you are completely through the SLAM process. Focus only on testing and dosing the chlorine - and brush the pool a couple times a day. As I suggested to you last summer, try to do only one thing at a time - and right now, that's focusing on the SLAM.

Since you're running out of testing reagents..... Find the nearest A&M Corsons - they stock a full setup of Taylor test kits and reagents. Certainly not the cheapest you can find, but if you're in a pinch and cannot wait to get more from TFTestkits - they have them. Check quantities of R-0871 reagent and R-870 powder. That's the ones you need to properly complete your SLAM.Hold off on buying any other reagents from them for now - cause, like I said, they aren't the cheapest.

If I recall, you're in Ahwatukee - so the one on Elliott & Alma School may be the closest. Locations AM Corsons
I'm positive the one on Warner & McQueen has both of those reagents - I was just there today getting bleach (12.5% liquid chlorine).

Do yourself a big favor - don't discuss your SLAM or pool with them - just say you need some Taylor reagent refills. Discussing your pool or SLAM with the pool store will only add to your frustration and waste valuable time.
Click to expand...

Hi Proavia! I wondered if you saw the mess I got myself into this summer. :) That's really wonderful that you saw this and had the answer for me. I'm running out to Val Vista Rd tomorrow morning so I'll call that one and see if they have any if i'm still in the location at 9am otherwise that's great to know not all locations might have it. I could make Warner/McQueen work, too.

I thought I recalled hearing the kits expire but couldn't find anything on the kit. after this should i order a whole new kit or is reordering just what i need ok? i keep the kit indoors. and, yes, good call, another powder wouldn't be a bad idea. You were also right last yr that an extra magnet was a good idea-i did lose one- AND you were right about the magnetic swirler.

As for the bubbler, I know it'll raise my pH but Matt said to run everything an hour a day so that the chlorinated water can pass through it.
thanku!
 
The reagents from TFTestkits are good for at least 1 year after you get them. They do not show any expiration dates on them - but TFTestkits does warranty them for that 1 year I believe.

That reagents that come in the Taylor bottles do have expiration dates on them these days. You can check that when you hit the store to replenish your R-0871 and R-0870.

You won't need to order a new complete kit (especially since you keep your indoors). If you can wait until spring, TFTestkits usually offers a special on a complete refills for theTF-100 - I think in early March. You should get an email advising of the sale. You can also order the magnet you misplaced for the Speedstir at that time.

Keep up your testing and dosing!!

Edit - I missed the part about Matt suggesting you running everything for an hour a day to flush the lines out. I thought you were trying to lower TA while SLAMming.
 
outdoorsgal said:
well, i can't' believe how fast i went through my 2d bottle of R-0871. i finished the other one a couple days ago and thought this one was full. testing and retesting used up all the bottle.
Click to expand...
just to check, use the 10mL water sample size, not 25mL and you can skip the CC test tomorrow to save a few drops - instructions here: https://www.troublefreepool.com/content/215-FAS-DPD-Chlorine-Test
outdoorsgal said:
i also just tested it and it's at 33 now. i'm pretty sure i recall unplugging the cell last time i added acid
Click to expand...
1) reminder not to add acid until after the slam is over and FC is under 10 so you can test ph again
proavia said:
The only thing I could possible add is to stop testing your pH and stop aerating until you are completely through the SLAM process. Focus only on testing and dosing the chlorine - and brush the pool a couple times a day. As I suggested to you last summer, try to do only one thing at a time - and right now, that's focusing on the SLAM.
Click to expand...
good reminder on the brushing! thanks!
outdoorsgal said:
As for the bubbler, I know it'll raise my pH but Matt said to run everything an hour a day so that the chlorinated water can pass through it.
Click to expand...
yes, to clarify, please do run it for the purpose of getting sanitizer through it as instructed, but not any extra for the purpose of increasing PH which you don't do until after SLAM/FC under 10
 
last night 9:20pm:
FC=33
this morn 6:20am FC 31.5/32
didn't bother with CC since it's been 0=.5 the whole time and i figured i need to do at least another night of SLAM. r meausrements accurate if i don't take them til later in the eve? i'll have people at the house for the party an hour or two after sun goes down.

thx!
 
Overnight loss of 1-1.5 FC if SWG was indeed off and 9:20pm was 20 mins after last bleach addition means keep SLAMing.

Measurements are always accurate as long as the test is performed properly per the instructions and water was circulating 20 mins before sample taken from elbow depth deep or more. The more often you test and bring FC back to shock, the faster the SLAM will end, but real life comes first, so if you can't test until this evening, it is what it is, don't stress it. The SLAM will go on. You can test after they're gone if that works better for you.

Your pool will lose at least 3 FC today, so if you don't have time to test but can add that much bleach, at any point, that'd be bonus points.
 

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BattleOfYakima said:
Overnight loss of 1-1.5 FC if SWG was indeed off and 9:20pm was 20 mins after last bleach addition means keep SLAMing.

Measurements are always accurate as long as the test is performed properly per the instructions and water was circulating 20 mins before sample taken from elbow depth deep or more. The more often you test and bring FC back to shock, the faster the SLAM will end, but real life comes first, so if you can't test until this evening, it is what it is, don't stress it. The SLAM will go on. You can test after they're gone if that works better for you.

Your pool will lose at least 3 FC today, so if you don't have time to test but can add that much bleach, at any point, that'd be bonus points.
Click to expand...

that's great info cuz i've been testing wrong this whole time. i don't run pool 20 minutes before testing. we'll see if that's why i just tested 17.5 FC. i was blown away by the low FC. I'll test again in a bit. i still feel it's hard to know if i'm getting exactly 10 ml cuz the water curves. i go down low in the water but sounds like i've gotta get on my belly to get h20 out of the pool or pay more attention to get elbow length down. what i might not have time for is to brush twice but i should be able to test another couple times today. thx!
 
Learning is great! I usually kneel down next to the pool personally, but have taken a nice, comfy lay down plenty of times too. You can use any clean container to get enough water for all your tests you're doing at once, then test in the shade.

Other things I learned the hard way:
Don't spill FAS-DPD powder on flooring.
Don't pour finished test water back in the pool.
If your returns are blowing bubbles, the pump basket clear loud and oring probably just need adjustment, and it can take a few times to get right.

Lastly, to clarify,
The water level in the test tube, how it is curved, this is cakes the meniscus. You want the lowest part of the curve to be in line with the marked line on the tube. In other words, the lowest water level is all that matters.

Brush when you can, don't worry about when you can't.
 
BattleOfYakima said:
Learning is great! I usually kneel down next to the pool personally, but have taken a nice, comfy lay down plenty of times too. You can use any clean container to get enough water for all your tests you're doing at once, then test in the shade.

Other things I learned the hard way:
Don't spill FAS-DPD powder on flooring.
Don't pour finished test water back in the pool.
If your returns are blowing bubbles, the pump basket clear loud and oring probably just need adjustment, and it can take a few times to get right.

Lastly, to clarify,
The water level in the test tube, how it is curved, this is cakes the meniscus. You want the lowest part of the curve to be in line with the marked line on the tube. In other words, the lowest water level is all that matters.

Brush when you can, don't worry about when you can't.
Click to expand...

For those wanting to see SLAM update only, here u go:

last night didn't test until 11:15pm.
FC=27.5.
this morn i forgot to get up before sun. @ 7:20am pool was 1/2 in the sun. FC=26.
CC = .5 or 1. I didn't bother retesting for accuracy cuz i knew i had to do another day of SLAM.

kids ended up swimming. i'm so glad u chimed in about water safety where the levels were at. they had a blast. some of the kids don't have pools so they were thrilled. i told parents chlorine levels were elevated but it was safe to swim in due to how the water was balanced. noone seemed interested and noone cared. In the end it was silly for me to say anything to them cuz people r used to swimming in public pools where water levels aren't probably safe and there are outbreaks of all kinds of things. (which leads me to another thread i may start one day about natural pools. when building my pool i almost put in a natural pool/aquaponic pond. i decided after my experience doing aquaponics (which I no longer do and don't miss) I didn't want to be the first person I know of in AZ doing what i was going to do, at least to that scale and I wasn't convinced it would be safe to swim in a giant aquaponics pond in my backyard.) Sorry for off-topic but there's more about me.

U gave me more great tips regarding cakes the meniscus. that's really helpful!! also, about not pouring chemicals in the pool. a few mths ago when pb was here to change out my other light that went out and I mentioned to him prob with salt cell he helped me clean it and i told him to dump the old water/MA in a weed tree i wouldn't mind killing and he said he wouldn't do that and he dumped it back in the pool. i didn't like the idea of the CH going back into the pool. He said it was insignificant. PB has taught me to put testing chemicals back in pool and i always had mixed feelings and mixed feelings about in the grass, too, since we have kids and chickens who we let free range at times. should they go down the drain?

tips will help me with testing tonight and tomorrow. I'll take my time and I hope to finish SLAM tomorrow morn. I'll work on uploading today's pics now
 
At the risk of some of u throwing your hands up, tonight using all the tips I've been giving, FC is all over the place.

5:45p FC= 22. added 120 oz, thinking i was overdoing it (poolmath said 111). brushed pool
6:30pm right after direct sun off pool:
FC=26 so I added 37 oz chlorine
waited 1/2 hr while pump ran on high
remeasured @ 7p. FC= 21.5 can't be right so I remeasured. FC=12! remeasured, FC= 23. Added 93 oz chlorine.

Theories:
1. I'm hopeless or having a major mind breakdown, but I don't think so.

2. could my regeant be expired? i'm using the older power but the newer liquid.

3. i wasn't sure if i should shake the regeant so barely did. should i shake it? not shake it? I used to always shake. tonight did my wimpy shake.

4. I'm measuring near the baja shelf. maybe the water isn't circulating well enough out of that area. It's a rectangle pool with the baja shelf on that side. We have in-floor, though, so it seems weird that it's not circulating in 1/2 hr. This whole time I've been thinking the algae is mostly in my DE filter. Maybe I'm not getting good circulation if it's full of DE and algae. With all the brushing I was disappointed seeing the dirt in the bottom of my pool this afternoon. I backwashed during the SLAM but I know we're way overdue to breakdown the system and I've been waiting for my husband. I might attempt it this week by myself. In the meantime, any ideas about this odd measuring issue? I know I've said I struggle with the accuracy of my measurement but I'm pretty detail oriented and this seems like something else. Or maybe it is the brain. I left the stove on the other day and left the house. :crazy: thanks for your patience. :drown:
 
i'm going with theory #4. My pool is taking longer than 30 min to cycle. I waited til now to retest and got FC of 35. I didn't get extra thorough about looking at the exact placement of the bottom of the water line this time so we'll see how it goes in the morn. i'm going with FC of 35.
 
In reference to #4.... Always take the sample from the deep end from a depth of at least 18" after the pool has been circulating for 15-30 minutes. Take the sample from the same place each time you pull a water sample.

Also, during a SLAM, the pump should be running constantly - 24 hours a day, every day.
Read this again: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
 
proavia said:
In reference to #4.... Always take the sample from the deep end from a depth of at least 18" after the pool has been circulating for 15-30 minutes. Take the sample from the same place each time you pull a water sample.

Also, during a SLAM, the pump should be running constantly - 24 hours a day, every day.
Read this again: Pool School - SLAM - Shock Level And Maintain
Click to expand...
thankyou. :) still learning
 
Agreed, good idea to re-read slam page - I mean I'm a guide and I still read the dang thing twice a month helping people...TFP is a lot of info, so we re-read to get it all to click. Great suggestion proavia! Thanks!

I take my samples all from the same place, deep end, reaching towards the bottom middle, as deep as I can, as far away from the wall as I can. This gives me the best possible sample of the majority of the water in my pool right now. Is it perfect, who cares, it is good enough for TFP to work its magic.

Speaking of good enough for TFP to work its magic - we need to have a little one-on-one tough love talk - but only because I believe in you! I wouldn't stay up past my bedtime for anyone, but you are smart enough to learn this, so here it goes:

Testing FC and get 21.5 then 12 then 23 is highly suggestive to me of a human testing procedure error that we can quickly fix.

FIRST Watch this short video please. With sound on, warning initial music is loud, then voices are quieter.

THEN read this page straight through, top to bottom, skipping nothing, just get through it, even if you don't understand every word yet

THEN watch this video again

Lastly read this page again.

If needed, come back here and ask questions. You owe it to yourself do master this test 100% right now.

Final notes about all tests that change color: Remember each new drop (1 second per drop, get it as fat as you can before gravity rips it off) must be swirled into the tube completely before you drop the next drop. Slowly drop 1 drop. Swirl until it is good and mixed and uniform. Drop next drop. Swirl until uniform. repeat, counting your drops of course, and keep going and swirling watching for a color change beginning which means you are approaching the endpoint, but not there yet. You keep going, drop swirl completely until a drop swirled in did not change the color any more (pointless drop I call it) and since that drop didn't change the color, you subtract that last drop from your drop count. (total drops minus 1).

So if the color change is from pink to clear, you keep going (drop swirl) watching for pink to start to lighten up a little, and be sure to make big full drops and swirl each one in completely until you're almost clear, then clear-ish, then i think it is clear, then totally clear, then okay that drop didn't make it anymore clear at all, so don't count that drop. Swirling is super important. Making sure you go all the way to no further color change is super important. Same with green to red or red to blue or whatever. when does a drop make it no darker red? wasted drop. that's the end...not a little red first appears....no further color change happened with that drop, subtract that drop.

Other note - how are you adding the bleach to the pool? where? how fast? We believe it is best to pour, very slowly, in front of the water return jets ideally one that points towards the deep end or middle, so that the bleach is rapidly diluted and circulated all around the pool instantly. The slower the pour, the faster the new addition will even out, so to speak, and the faster you can retest accurately (20-30 mins) but if you're just dumping it all in the deep end, then maybe in your pool you need to wait longer, idk.
 
Just a note. The SpeedStir makes testing much easier and more accurate. It does all the stirring and swirling for you, so all you need to do is count the drops.

Another note. Try to move fairly quickly through each individual test and once you see the color change, that’s your result. Ignore the fact that the solution may then change colors if allowed to sit for any time.
 

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