I added another 2 gallons of cl. We're now at:
FC=12
TC=20
I'm adding another 2.5 gallons to try to get FC=20.
FC=12
TC=20
I'm adding another 2.5 gallons to try to get FC=20.
Chlorine Demand Test = 83 lbs!
- Thread starter jjoshua
- Start date
With extremely high ammonia levels, it isn't about getting to an FC level of 20, it is about adding huge amounts of chlorine slowly enough to be safe. You are going to need really large amounts of chlorine, just as the pool store said right at the beginning. You want to settle into a rhythm of adding chlorine that is comfortable, that never brings the FC level above 20, and which you can maintain for some time, and which is reasonably efficient.
You will make most efficient use of your FAS-DPD test reagents if you give the chlorine enough time to react so the FC level is fairly low. You can skip testing CC most of the time, perhaps only testing CC once a day or once every other day, just to see how you are doing. Giving the chlorine time to react will also mean that you can add more chlorine each cycle, which will make up for there being a bit more time between cycles.
You will make most efficient use of your FAS-DPD test reagents if you give the chlorine enough time to react so the FC level is fairly low. You can skip testing CC most of the time, perhaps only testing CC once a day or once every other day, just to see how you are doing. Giving the chlorine time to react will also mean that you can add more chlorine each cycle, which will make up for there being a bit more time between cycles.
After 7.5 gallons, I'm at FC=10, TC=20. I added another 2.5 gallons and we'll see where we are tomorrow morning. I guess that I can just keep adding 2.5 gallons per day until all of the CC is gone.
I also did another ammonia test using a 1:2 diluted sample (w/distilled water). I have 12ppm of ammonia at this point. If my calculations are correct, I need 120ppm of chlorine which is another 15 gallons of cl.
I also did another ammonia test using a 1:2 diluted sample (w/distilled water). I have 12ppm of ammonia at this point. If my calculations are correct, I need 120ppm of chlorine which is another 15 gallons of cl.
Help! Low PH.
This morning, I'm at FC=2, PH=6.8, TA=100.
PH is down from 7.5! TA is down from 110. Is this a temporary effect from adding 10 gallons of cl? Should I add borax to get the PH up?
I added 1 gallon of cl this morning to maintain FC. I'll measure again tonight.
This morning, I'm at FC=2, PH=6.8, TA=100.
PH is down from 7.5! TA is down from 110. Is this a temporary effect from adding 10 gallons of cl? Should I add borax to get the PH up?
I added 1 gallon of cl this morning to maintain FC. I'll measure again tonight.
I'll let the experts continue with the advice on the addition of chem's. I just want to offer a little reassurance. You have the same problem I had last year that caused me to find this forum. I also used a local BioGuard dealer and all summer dealt with "an extreme chlorine demand." Instead of the 83 pounds of Burn Out Extreme, I went with two drain and refills down to a foot in the shallow end and then about 25 pounds of Burn Out Extreme. My pool was never right even up to the time to close it. (Despite all the money in chems and water.)
I opened to a green monster with about 6 ppm ammonia and began fighting the battle you are (with the help of this site). My CYA was zero which helped me out, so I didn't need to drain any (after all the draining last year, I was happy about that.) Your pool will be clear and trouble free if you read everything you can on this forum and listen to what these guys tell you about your specific situation. Make sure you read Pool School A LOT! It might be somewhat confusing still (it was for me), but with that background and the help of these guys (and gals!) you'll be doing the right thing and starting to understand.
After it's clear, don't get caught up in the BioGuard program again!! Read and ask questions about normal maintenance once you get the problems taken care of and you won't believe how easy it is to keep your water clear and clean. And it's WAY cheaper than BioGuard!
Learn and listen to these guys and it will work even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. In some cases you might go days adding bleach hourly and feel like you're not getting anywhere, but it's doing it's job and it will make it better if you follow the advice you get here.
You're doing a great job by being here and asking these guys what to do.
Good luck.
-- Pete
I opened to a green monster with about 6 ppm ammonia and began fighting the battle you are (with the help of this site). My CYA was zero which helped me out, so I didn't need to drain any (after all the draining last year, I was happy about that.) Your pool will be clear and trouble free if you read everything you can on this forum and listen to what these guys tell you about your specific situation. Make sure you read Pool School A LOT! It might be somewhat confusing still (it was for me), but with that background and the help of these guys (and gals!) you'll be doing the right thing and starting to understand.
After it's clear, don't get caught up in the BioGuard program again!! Read and ask questions about normal maintenance once you get the problems taken care of and you won't believe how easy it is to keep your water clear and clean. And it's WAY cheaper than BioGuard!
Learn and listen to these guys and it will work even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. In some cases you might go days adding bleach hourly and feel like you're not getting anywhere, but it's doing it's job and it will make it better if you follow the advice you get here.
You're doing a great job by being here and asking these guys what to do.
Good luck.
-- Pete
You should adjust the PH to around 7.2 to 7.4 but only do this when the FC level is below 5. The PH will read higher when the FC level is high, and that can be ignored.
I added some borax to increase the PH.
FC=2
TC=5
CC=3
PH=7.3
TA=100
CA=70
The pool had a bad smell when I checked on it. I added 2.5 gallons of cl which is about 20ppm.
The ammonia test shows that I'm around 10ppm (down from 12ppm) so I'm making some headway. I'm going to pick up another 15 gallons of 12% cl tomorrow.
FC=2
TC=5
CC=3
PH=7.3
TA=100
CA=70
The pool had a bad smell when I checked on it. I added 2.5 gallons of cl which is about 20ppm.
The ammonia test shows that I'm around 10ppm (down from 12ppm) so I'm making some headway. I'm going to pick up another 15 gallons of 12% cl tomorrow.
After a few rounds of adding 2.5 gallons of cl, my pool holds FC=2 but TC is way high. The CC smells really bad.
Just to confirm, my goal is to keep adding cl to clear out the ammonia which is a cumulative process? I need to add 10 ppm of cl to get rid of 1ppm of ammonia. I'm not trying to reach breakpoint or anything like that. Eventually, I will clear out the ammonia, FC will rise, and I can shock the pool to get rid of all of the CC?
Just to confirm, my goal is to keep adding cl to clear out the ammonia which is a cumulative process? I need to add 10 ppm of cl to get rid of 1ppm of ammonia. I'm not trying to reach breakpoint or anything like that. Eventually, I will clear out the ammonia, FC will rise, and I can shock the pool to get rid of all of the CC?
Yes, keep bringing your pool to shock level, and eventually the ammonia will oxidize, the FC readings will be higher and the CC will lower and eventually you'll reach .5 or less.
This thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/tf-100-test-kit-arrived-t10909.html
It's a long one, but the fellow had an ammonia issue, it took a month before his FC held overnight and he went thru an extraordinary amount of bleach and POP.
This thread may be of interest to you:
http://www.troublefreepool.com/tf-100-test-kit-arrived-t10909.html
It's a long one, but the fellow had an ammonia issue, it took a month before his FC held overnight and he went thru an extraordinary amount of bleach and POP.
At the other end of the spectrum, you can look at my experience with this problem here where it took me 2 days and a cumulative 56 ppm FC before my chlorine held, but I had caught the problem within days of it occurring. Every situation is a little different, but they all point to the importance of always maintaining an appropriate FC level relative to the CYA level, for prevent of algae and prevention of bacterial conversion of CYA into ammonia (as well as keeping the pool sanitary).
Richard
Richard
When I dealt with mine, I checked my FC about every hour (I went through A LOT of FAS-DPD reagent). I kept it at shock level all the time (I work from home, so it wasn't a problem). I never bothered checking CC while I was trying to get FC to hold at 20. At first, I'd lose 10 ppm or more in an hour and I'd bring it back up to 20 over and over again. After a while, I stopped losing so much and I'd wait a couple of hours in between and then down to three times a day and so forth.
My two cents would be, the more often you can test it and the more often you make sure it's a shock level, the sooner you'll have it knocked out. But soon is relative. It takes a lot of time, a lot of work and a lot of patience.
-- Pete
My two cents would be, the more often you can test it and the more often you make sure it's a shock level, the sooner you'll have it knocked out. But soon is relative. It takes a lot of time, a lot of work and a lot of patience.
-- Pete
20ppm is shock level for my pool.
Everyone says to keep the FC at shock level but I can't get even close to 20ppm. I hit 12ppm after adding 7 gallons of 12.5% cl. It seems that the cl is being consumed as fast as I can add it.
I'm adding 2.5 gallons at a time which is 20ppm. Is this the same thing?
Everyone says to keep the FC at shock level but I can't get even close to 20ppm. I hit 12ppm after adding 7 gallons of 12.5% cl. It seems that the cl is being consumed as fast as I can add it.
I'm adding 2.5 gallons at a time which is 20ppm. Is this the same thing?
If they experts say different, go with them, but here's what I'd do....
I see your pool is 15000 gal and if I understand right you're using 12% liquid chlorine (read about chlorine strength, even if it says 12% it could easily be less. From trial and error, my pool store 12% was really only 10%...), anyway, use the Pool Calculator http://www.poolcalculator.com, enter the gallons of your pool and your FC reading and a goal of 20. If I put in 15000 gal, FC of 12, goal of 20 and using 12% liquid chlorine, you need to add one gallon.
I'd add that gallon and test again in 30 minutes. If FC is less than 20, I'd do it all again: enter FC reading, goal 20, and put in that much chlorine and test again in half an hour. Once your FC reading is close to 20 after a half hour, I would go to one hour between tests and then when that holds near 20, I'd pull off to three times a day.
If you're really fighting ammonia, which it seems like you are, the reaction between ammonia and chlorine is a pretty fast reaction, it's GOOD that it's using it up that fast because you're getting rid of the ammonia. It's a pain, for sure, but basically, test as often as you can (half hour is not reasonable for some people) and add what the Pool Calculator says to add to bring it up to 20. Just keep doing it. A lot.
It will get better.
-- Pete
I see your pool is 15000 gal and if I understand right you're using 12% liquid chlorine (read about chlorine strength, even if it says 12% it could easily be less. From trial and error, my pool store 12% was really only 10%...), anyway, use the Pool Calculator http://www.poolcalculator.com, enter the gallons of your pool and your FC reading and a goal of 20. If I put in 15000 gal, FC of 12, goal of 20 and using 12% liquid chlorine, you need to add one gallon.
I'd add that gallon and test again in 30 minutes. If FC is less than 20, I'd do it all again: enter FC reading, goal 20, and put in that much chlorine and test again in half an hour. Once your FC reading is close to 20 after a half hour, I would go to one hour between tests and then when that holds near 20, I'd pull off to three times a day.
If you're really fighting ammonia, which it seems like you are, the reaction between ammonia and chlorine is a pretty fast reaction, it's GOOD that it's using it up that fast because you're getting rid of the ammonia. It's a pain, for sure, but basically, test as often as you can (half hour is not reasonable for some people) and add what the Pool Calculator says to add to bring it up to 20. Just keep doing it. A lot.
It will get better.
-- Pete
It would be good if you could put some basic pool specs in your signature. That will help us answer your questions more easily.
You are doing just fine. Don't worry about the details of the wording. You actually are raising the pool to 20 ppm of chlorine or more, if only for a couple of seconds. By the time it is mixed in and you can test again it will have fallen. That will continue as long as there is ammonia in the pool. Ammonia reacts with chlorine very quickly, so the FC level falls very quickly.
2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach/chlorine is just over 20 ppm of chlorine. If you start with FC near zero, then adding 2.5 gallons is appropriate.
You are doing just fine. Don't worry about the details of the wording. You actually are raising the pool to 20 ppm of chlorine or more, if only for a couple of seconds. By the time it is mixed in and you can test again it will have fallen. That will continue as long as there is ammonia in the pool. Ammonia reacts with chlorine very quickly, so the FC level falls very quickly.
2.5 gallons of 12.5% bleach/chlorine is just over 20 ppm of chlorine. If you start with FC near zero, then adding 2.5 gallons is appropriate.
Ok. I'll have another 15 gallons of cl to work with tonight. I'll be as aggressive as I can, adding enough to get 20ppm based on my previous test.
Success?
I added 10 gallons of cl, 2.5 gallons at a time.
Here's the final result:
FC=2
TC=2
PH=6.8
TA=80
CYA=70
The ammonia test registered .5 ppm. I think that I'm almost done!
I added a final 2.5 gallons of cl and a box of borax and the pool is aerating. We'll check again in the morning.
Can anyone explain the drop in PH and TA? This has been happening the entire time. I'm up to my 5th box of borax (which isn't really bad because I never had borax in the pool).
I added 10 gallons of cl, 2.5 gallons at a time.
Here's the final result:
FC=2
TC=2
PH=6.8
TA=80
CYA=70
The ammonia test registered .5 ppm. I think that I'm almost done!
I added a final 2.5 gallons of cl and a box of borax and the pool is aerating. We'll check again in the morning.
Can anyone explain the drop in PH and TA? This has been happening the entire time. I'm up to my 5th box of borax (which isn't really bad because I never had borax in the pool).
This morning...
FC=3
TC=5
CC=2
PH=7.0
TA=100
CYA=70
Ammonia is down to .25 ppm.
It was raining all night so there's some CC to get rid of. I added another 2.5 gallons of cl and will test in the evening.
FC=3
TC=5
CC=2
PH=7.0
TA=100
CYA=70
Ammonia is down to .25 ppm.
It was raining all night so there's some CC to get rid of. I added another 2.5 gallons of cl and will test in the evening.
