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Thread: New AG Pool installed Monday...

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    Tierceron's Avatar
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    New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Hi,

    Bought a Pool and had it installed on Monday. It's really.....................big. It is now filled with water from our garden hose. The pump is going and I've added two bottles of chemicles that came with our pool, a gallon of "shock" and a quart of "black algae guard". I'm so glad I'm here because I'm certainly
    "over my head" with this pool. I used the pool calculator and came up with 204,000 gallons, is this correct? I ask because we got nowhere near enough start-up chemicles from Namco (where we bought the pool) and this confuses me too. I like the sound of the BBB method and am hoping that I can use this for my pool even though I have put poolstore chemicals in my pool aready (albeit not nearly enough). I ordered the TF100 Test kit yesterday, so I'm waiting for that so I can test and post my numbers.

    My questions for right now are 1. Is the information in my sig. correct? 2. How do find out what filter you have? 3. Should I leave my pool pump running? 4. With just "tap" water in the pool is there anyone who can advise me on how to start getting my levels up?

    I must admit I'm very worried about the pool water being "unprotected" by chemicals. Yet I'm so unsure about what to do; the numbers,204k gallons, the directions on the pool chemical bottles..........I'd need cases of the stuff. The test kit cannot get here fast enough. Thank you in advance for your attention.

    Tierceron
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Hi. How deep is your pool? Are the walls 48 " , 52" or 54" in. if they are 48", then I get 15,700 gallons.
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Most algaecide is unneccessary, as you have probably gathered by reading our forum. Black Algae is virtually unheard of in an above ground and/or vinyl liner pool. Live and learn, right?

    You can wait until your test kit comes or you can head to the pool stealer and ask them to give you a full set of test results.... tis up to you.

    What was the % strength on the bottle of "shock"? (liquid chlorine-shock is something you do, not something you buy. Don't let them confuse you!).

    If it was 12.5%, then that would raise the FC level in your pool to 8.

    8 is ok for now, but if you have not adding CYA or "Stabilizer" to your pool water, then that FC will be gone by tonight. Without CYA, the sun consumes all of the chlorine.

    Did they leave you CYA? What else did you add, if anything, and what other chems did they leave you with? List the names on the packages.

    For your filter, check your invoice or manuals for the info.

    If I haven't covered everything, let me know if you have any q's.

    Welcome to TFP! YOu'll be glad you found us first!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Tier...I just recently installed a Pool purchased at Namco as well. The BBB method has been flawless thus far...my water is crystal clear. Having filled my pool with tap water as well, I can advise you to get your water tested ASAP...you should have the TF100 soon (they ship fast) or Namco also gives you free bottles to bring in water samples and they will test your water for you. Ask them for a prinout of results and post them here...we will gladly assist you.

    FYI...My local Namco is running a special on liquid shock (as Jason says...this is just highly concentrated bleach, so look at cost of unscented clorox which will work just as well, it's just less concentrated and decide which you want to use...think off liquid shock like ultra Clorox on steroids ). The only chemical you will need to purchase from the pool store or you local walmart is CYA or as Namco calls it "Stabilizer/Conditioner". You'll also want to buy some MA (Muratic acid from your local hardware store, but hold off until you get water test results...depending on where your fill water TA is at, you may need several gallons vs 1-2 gallons for normal PH management. I went through 8 gallons and a weeks worth of aeration to reduce my TA from 350+ down to a TA of 80-90 as I plan to run a SWG and have high CH in my fill water)


    Once you post your test results, we can help get your water balanced and then we can chat about Borates
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Until your test kit arrives, you can just add 2 ppm of chlorine each evening after sunset. That should be enough to keep the pool in good shape for several days.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Tierceron's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Thank you for the quick replies.

    @frustratedpoolmom -- The shock treatment % is 12.5%. I also have a 1.5lb bottle of Conitioner and stabilizer and a 2lb bottle of pH Increase. I, of course screwed up the numbers in the pool calculator, instead of converting 52 inches to 4.3ft I entered 52ft!! in the height box, hence the outrageous number of 204K. So now I am getting 15,700 which I have attempted to change in my Sig. I still cannot find the filter info. I am going to ask my husband to look because with my track record so far I'm sure it's as plain as the nose on my face and I'm just not seeing it.

    @dmanb2b-- What great news!!! I will take my water to Namco this afternoon. You know when we were buying the pool they said they held classes for first time pool owners and when I called this week to find out where and when they said they'd already held the class and maybe but they weren't sure but there might be another one. I'm sorry that I bought a pool from them already, we had a pretty good dent in the pool sidewall when the installers took the roll out of the box and boy did Namco give me the runaround about getting a new pool wall. I'll post my results when I get them, thank you for your reply.

    @JasonLion -- Thank you for this advice, it will take a lot of worry out of things for me until I can get the BBB program going.
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Is the 1.5 lb bottle of stablizer/conditioner a granular or liquid?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Yeah...I can't believe we actually bought the pool from them...we tried doing the same about two years ago and after waiting 1 month (supposedly "in transit"), we cancelled the order. Last fall (October Clearance) we picked up our current pool on sale for $899...we looked at the same pool in the summer for $1,799 (which was supposedly 30%off). If you ever need supplies from them and can wait till the end of the season, they run crazy sales in the sept-oct time frame. That being said...let them test your water and if you want to pick up some CYA and liquid Shock, fine, but don't let them sell you any other chems until you've had a chance to post results here. Take a look at their pool care tips on their website (especially "shocking and "superclorinating" and it will make you laugh )

    While these tips may work for some...they are not for me...follwoing their advice I always had pool water problems on our previous pool, and just kept buying more and more chems, to no avail. Most all members here love the BBB method and TFP is a wonderful resource...after reading this forum and studying pool school, it gave me the courage to buy a pool again.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Tierceron's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Went to Namco tonight and here are my results according to them:

    Total Hardness: 160ppm
    Combined Chlorine: 0ppm
    Free Chlorine: 0.5ppm
    pH: 7
    Total Alkalinity: 70ppm
    Cyanuric Acid: 20ppm
    Total Bromine: Not Tested

    @frustratedpoolmom -- The Stabilizer/Conditioner is granular.

    @dbmand2b - Your right they are having a sale on the liquid shock and CYA but...they recommended some other products so I just gave a resounding
    no to all products and will go back and get just what I need, when I figure out what I need. Haven't checked out Namco for pool tips, I'll wait till I feel
    that I've got the BBB pool maintenance under my belt before I do. I don't want to be misled or confused and it seems with this pool that happens pretty easy for me.

    Tierceron

    So how do I proceed.
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    definately do not use their pool tips...I suggested to look at them for a good chuckle

    here what I can tell you based on your results;

    Total Hardness: 160ppm - OK
    Combined Chlorine: 0ppm - GREAT
    Free Chlorine: 0.5ppm - Raise to 4ppm by adding 114oz of 6% bleach
    pH: 7 - raise to 7.5 by 98oz by weight of borax (20 mule team stuff)...just about 1 and 1/4 box....my advice, add one box...retest and then adjust from there
    Total Alkalinity: 70ppm - Great...this will go up slightly with the borax, but that is OK
    Cyanuric Acid: 20ppm - odd, did you add the 1.5lbs of stabilizer you had on hand? Not sure how you got 20 ppm if all you added was liquid chlorine and algaecide? Your goal should be 30-50 ppm, so maybe add the 1.5lb container you have and retest...that container should get you to the 30-40ppm range if you current CYA level is actually 20...again not sure how you got the 20ppm already.
    Total Bromine: Not Tested - not needed anyway

    Hope this helps...I'm sure the experts will chime in soon.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    also...you should pick up some MA and spare borax and maybe a large box of baking soda to keep things in check once your numbers stabilize...Tip...please keep your MA as far away from your bleach as possible...they don;t mix well

    Be very careful if you need to add MA periodically...it is an acid and should be handled appropriately...use gloves goggles and try to hold your breath while pouring (you'll know what I mean if you ever get a whiff

    Finally, please wait at least 30 mins between additions of bleach and acid to your pool water, just to be safe, and make sure your pump is running while adding chems to ensure it gets mixed well in you water before adding you next chemical.
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Dman, great advice.

    Yes, did you add the stabilizer? Go ahead and do so if you have not yet.

    Don't bother buying MA yet, I don't see any reason to with your numbers. In 8 years I have never needed MA, in some pools it just isn't necessary.

    Smart move, holding off on buying anything. You are handling everything correctly. Great job!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Good Morning!! I am off to get my 6% Cholrine and 20 Muleteam Borax.


    @dmanb2b -- I understood you didn't want me to follow the Namco Pool tips, just get a laugh about 'em. I might skip the MA for right now until
    I have a better idea on how and where I want to store my chemicals, I've got a child who loves to "help" me. I don't understand the Cyanuric Acid comments but I'll just take you on your word. Makes me think my drinking water is full of Cyanuric Acid.

    @frustratedpoolmom -- I did not add the condtioner/stabilizer but I will do so on my way out. I am hope, hope, hoping that the Test Kit shows up today. I'll add my ingredients and check back in this afternoon.

    Thank you both so much for your help, yesterday I was completely frightened of pool care and just one day later, I'm feeling hopeful that I too can have a sparkling wonderful healthy pool!

    T.
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    sorry, hopefully I didn't confuse you...cyanuric acid = CYA (this is the chemical as marketed as Stabilizer/conditioner). What we are wondering is how the pool store told you you had 20ppm of stabilizer in your water already, if you haven't added any prior to having the water tested?

    Either way...add the 1.5lbs you have on hand and retest for CYA (Stabilizer) in a week...good luck
    24'x52" AGP (13,500 Gallons), Intex SWG, (2)Solar Bear 4x20 panels, Hayward S220T Filter, 1/2hp Pentair Superflo

    Pool School, TFTestKits, Pool Calculator

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    @frustratedpoolmom and dmanb2b

    Hope your still with me here,

    I didn't get my Test kit Friday but I did add the 114oz of 6% bleach, the box of 20 mule team Borax and the 1.5lb bottle of Stabilizer. The Stabilizer which I tried to dissolve (like it said on the package) is mostly sitting in granular form on the bottom of my pool. I guess I should just get out the pool vac for that.

    So tonight, Saturday night Got home from work, the kit was here, opened it, very impressed and I used the blue basic test kit. My results were less than
    stellar, mostly all clear on the Chlorine side and all the way pink/red on the pH side.

    So I need a little more hand holding here, Thank you.

    Tierceron
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    We're here...

    Yeah, I wouldn't recommend leaving the CYA undissolved on the floor. Vacume it up (into the filter) and then don't backwash for a week.

    Try the FAS-DPD kit, you'll love it and you will prefer it! When you say "all the way pink/red" what is the corresponding number?

    If it's too high (above 7.8) you need to lower it with Muratic Acid. Use the Pool Calc to calculate your dosage.

    Do you have any specific q's?
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Phew! I'm so glad you answered. But you most likely will not be.

    Geeze I'm just cringe-ing here, I don't know how or why one would backwash. I don't know what I'm doing with the pool calculator, I don't know how dmanb2b calculated the amounts for me the other day. I still don't know what kind of filter I've got ( I asked hubby and he said a fabric one that you hose off) Can you point me to some articles on basic, real basic pool info..............Is there a "pool info and care for dummies" book out there....I need it.
    That way I can get some information under my belt and not bother you all.

    So I did try to dissolve the Stabilizer granules in hot hot water for about 20 mins, obviously I'll need to buy a liquid version in the future. The red/pink pH level was 8.2. It's now pouring rain outside, but as soon as it stops I'm going to put in 64oz of 6% bleach to try to stave off any "worsening" of my water Does this sound about right to you? In the the a.m. I'll use the FAS-DPD kit and start from there.

    T.
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Hello,

    And welcome. It will take days for the stabilizer to dissolve. You can either pour it in the skimmer basket or put it in a tube sock hanging in front of the return jet. If you put it in the skimmer basket do not backwash your pool. You normally backwash when your psi goes too high but with cya just let it get high and do not backwash for 4 or so days.

    You have a cartridge filter if it is fabric.

    Do you have the capability of backwashing your pool?

    When you add chlorine pour it in front of the return line so it will not sink to the bottom. It will then get dispersed
    throughout the pool.

    Good Luck,
    Susan
    18x33 AGP, BAQUAPURE 200 lb sandfilter, 2 1/2hp Workhorse pump (2 speed)

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    frustratedpoolmom's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tierceron
    Phew! I'm so glad you answered. But you most likely will not be.

    Geeze I'm just cringe-ing here, I don't know how or why one would backwash. I don't know what I'm doing with the pool calculator, I don't know how dmanb2b calculated the amounts for me the other day. I still don't know what kind of filter I've got ( I asked hubby and he said a fabric one that you hose off) Can you point me to some articles on basic, real basic pool info..............Is there a "pool info and care for dummies" book out there....I need it.
    That way I can get some information under my belt and not bother you all.

    So I did try to dissolve the Stabilizer granules in hot hot water for about 20 mins, obviously I'll need to buy a liquid version in the future. The red/pink pH level was 8.2. It's now pouring rain outside, but as soon as it stops I'm going to put in 64oz of 6% bleach to try to stave off any "worsening" of my water Does this sound about right to you? In the the a.m. I'll use the FAS-DPD kit and start from there.

    T.
    You have a Cartridge Filter. You won't "backwash" it. If you can avoid having to take it out and hose it off for a week - that is the "backwash" equivalent. :P

    You can vacume the CYA into the Cart filter, leave the pump running for 24-hours afterwards to make sure it dissolves. It will continue to dissolve in your filter for several days, that is why you wouldn't clean/backwash your filter, or the CYA would be "lost" in the process. In about 4-5 days retest the CYA to see what the level is, I can be pretty sure you will need more. When/if you do add more, with a Cart Filter, just pour it slowly thru the skimmer basket, pump running, and it will dissolve in the filter. Leave the pump running for 12-48 hours to avoid any unwanted side effects. Again, after 4-5 days you can retest the CYA.

    Usually within 24-48 hours after adding CYA, one should "assume" it's in the water and adjust the FC level according to the CYA chart (see my sig). You have the minimum FC level, Target, and shock levels - corresponding to your CYA level - get it?

    So you NEVER let the FC go below "minimum". You would test daily, make sure you are between "minimum" and "target" level, and daily you will add enough to reach your "target". Makes sense? You use the Pool Calc to figure out how much bleach it takes to reach your target....see below.

    It would appear to me that Namco was incorrect in their PH test results (big shock) and you didn't need the Borax , now your PH is too high. Please do me a favor and test the PH again. Then, so we're all comfortable with your results, repeat it a third time. If basically all three of your PH results are the same, then your results are likely accurate. Unfortunately, if they are accurate, you will need Muratic Acid after all, and you'll have to add some to lower the PH back down to say, 7.5.

    (When testing pool water, the pump should have been circulating the water for awhile, preferably several hours for one full turnover of water.) Take a cup or bottle and reach down like 18 inches for the sample. Use that sample for all of the tests. Transfer that water to the PH comparator tube (or whatever you are testing). Make sure you follow each test direction carefully.

    You will find the FAS-DPD test easier to use than the OTO and PH tests, because you aren't comparing colors, only counting drops. Make sure you use the "scoop" end of the stick, not the flat-handle end.

    For the Pool Calculator and knowing "how much" of what...

    The Pool Calc has a "size" in the top left section - you enter your gallons 15,700.

    Then in the "now" column, you enter all your current test results. In the "Target" Column, you enter your goal, which would be the recommended levels for your pool. So you have a vinyl liner, non SWG. Go to Pool School - the article titled Recommended Levels. See what is recommended for vinyl pool. Those goals are your target. You enter these goals in the target column, ignore salt, borate and CSI for now, and hit "calculate".

    This will tell you what you need to do - or how much of whatever chem - you need to add.

    If you are uncertain about anything just ask.

    Hope this helps. Look, I know (as a formerly frustrated pool mom) how overwhelmed you must feel right now, and believe me, YOU WILL GET THROUG THIS!
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
    24' round AG pool, 52" high, Raypak heater; Waterway 2 spd Pump;
    150 Sq ft. Clearwater Cartridge Filter; Former and DISSATISFIED "Pool Frog" owner
    http://www.PerfectlyClearPoolService.com

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    Tierceron's Avatar
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    Re: New AG Pool installed Monday...

    By Jove, I've got it. I spent the last couple of days testing and re-testing and getting the proper amounts of Stabilizer and Bleach in my pool and these are my numbers now..

    FC 2.5
    CC 1.0
    TC 3.5
    pH 7.2
    T/A 100
    CH Not applicable
    CYA 35

    The reason I was having so much trouble with the pool caculator (I'm so literal) is that it said Not Set Up when I first opened it which I took to mean that it would not calculate an initial pool set up, only after you put in your first chemicals or agents could you use it. Duh! Saturday night, I was really on the run. I thank you Frustratedpoolmom for talking me off my ledge.

    I'm in New England so it's been colder here than usual so we are no where near ready for swimming. That means I'll have plenty of time to make sure I've got the program down before anyone gets in the water. Thanks all for your help, Especially frustratedpoolmom and dmanb2b.

    Tierceron
    18' X 33' AG --14900--ProLine PE71 1.5 hp Pump

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