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Thread: Concrete pool -milky water

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    oletrout's Avatar
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    Concrete pool -milky water

    Hello folks. New here and first time poster and I do hope someone can give me an answer.It's a rather long post but I am trying to post as much background info as I can

    Location and pool size: We live in Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool 40 x 20- I calculate as an average depth of 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal.

    It's equipped with a 1HP pump and a Hayward sand filter model S-220T. We have ran the system for 15 yrs without problems. New sand filter and completely sand blasted and repainted June 05.

    Chemical use: Had always used liq. chlorine,stabilizer, occasional algecide and some times chlorine pucks. Kept clean with a Kreepy K.

    Last summer after a pool party the pristine look it had at 1PM had turned to a milky looking concoction after being used by about 20 kids. Shocked the pool and in the AM it was almost clear. Brushed down the sides and it took another 2 days to get rid of the white milky water and of course the back washing diluted all the chemical.

    At about the same time we switched to Saltwater using a Pentair Intellichlor. Changed the sand in the filter and added the new 1 HP pump. No further cleaning except for the aforementioned brushing. Again the water was pristine and salt content etc verified by pool shop test. After the next wave of Grandkids and friends it was milky again.

    I am trying to determine if I have a chemical problem causing this or paint degredation. If I push my brush along the bottom all seems Ok -that area is constantly covered by the Kreepy. The sides are a different story. In the deep end the Kreepy does not come all the way to the top because there is a ledge all around the pool starting from where the shallow end starts to slope to the deep end. If I pass my hand LIGHTLY over an area of the side it feels slippery/ slimy, and in the same area if I rub it hard with my palm it creates the milky condition and it dissipates right away. When I take the brush to it I create a bad milky/cloudy condition.

    The only recourse i can see now is to drain ,pressure wash and refill. I dread the thought of having to do that.

    Saturday i dumped in 2oL of Liq chlorine and monday another 20L.

    Yesterday I brush scrubbed the shallow end side ( test area), created the milky look, passed my hand over the same area and it was ok. This Am I ran my hand over the "test" area, without brushing again and it felt a bit slippery/slimy and there was a SLIGHT "milky" cloud formed. Just back from the pool shop and the readings are:
    Salt-2800
    PH-7.8
    Alkalinity-120
    Stabilizer-50

    Pool shop is advising a good scrub of the sides, filter and vacuum bottom and add 1 L of algecide after that.

    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank You
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Welcome to TFP!

    What you describe sounds like it could be due to some kind of chalking, but it also sounds almost exactly like the way a pool responds to insufficient chlorine and a high bather load. You don't post chlorine test readings in your results, and those are a key piece of information. I also think your CYA level could be a little on the low side, depending on the manufacturer of your generator. I usually raise the FC level about 3ppm before an expected high bather load, then bump it back up again after the swimming is done.
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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thanks for the reply John. I currently have the CG turned off because there was a lot of silt and debris when i took the cover off. I have left it off while i try and clean the milky problem. I also do not have a good test kit but will try and acquire one today.Do you suggest i follow the instruction i got from the pool shop and start scrubbing, filtering, vacuum and backwashing to get rid of the obvious stuff first?
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Probably the best thing you can do is to get a top quality test kit. Having your own test kit can give you a lot more information and make the whole process much simpler. I recommend a kit form TF Test Kits, see the link in my signature. The Taylor K-2006 is also a good kit.

    My guess is that you are allowing the FC level to get too low, despite the substantial amounts of chlorine added. With a salt system (SWG) you want to keep your stabilizer (CYA) level up around 70 or 80. A SWG and a low CYA level will usually lead to a low FC level. As JohnT said, all your symptoms sound like they are the result of low FC levels.

    At this point you need to shock the pool, which requires maintaining elevated FC levels and brushing frequently. Once the immediate problem is over you will need to raise the CYA level and adjust the SWG percentage for the correct FC level. You should also plan on adding extra chlorine both before and after having 20 kids in the pool.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    oletrout's Avatar
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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thank you Jason. You and John may both be right. I just opened the pool from the winter and was shocked at the clouds of white. Since Monday I have been brushing the walls and the amount coming off is way down from what it was on Sat.This Am I could see the main drain. My chlorine level is currently at 4 and the pool shop guy says 2-3 is ideal?? So I will keep brushing and back washing daily for the next few days.

    Do you think the chlorine level is OK now for what I want to do? Is the liquid chlorine enough to SHOCK it or should I dump granular shock into it? The pool shop is pushing me to add a liter of algecide and algecide blocks for the skimmer, I havn't connected the CGenerator yet as I want this problem resolved first.

    Thanks again you guys for your speedy response.
    Cheers
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    The ideal FC level depends on the current CYA level, see the Chlorine/CYA Chart at Pool School for specific numbers.

    With CYA/stabilizer at 50 I would not allow FC to go below 4 at any time.

    You should also read the article on shocking the pool at Pool School. The goal of shocking is to maintain a FC level until all the algae is dead. You can do that with any form of chlorine, though each has advantages and disadvantages. We generally recommend liquid chlorine, though some of the granular products can be convenient in specific situations.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thank you Jason. I think i understand a bit better now of the relationship between CYA and FCS. I brushed the sides this AM and there was a lot and again this afternoon and it seemed to be less. The routine now until i get it all leveled out is brushing, filtering and running the Kreepy. From what I have read so far and with your replies, I thought i would keep doing that for another few days until i see no white stuff and have a clear pool, at which time I will start my CG.Does that sound right?

    So with my FC currently at 4 and my CYA at 50 and with still some of the milky look when i brush, should i hit it again with more liquid chlorine? Should I add stabilizer now?

    Thanks again,
    Cheers
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Hi oletrout and welcome to the forum

    The best investment we made in our pool was a good test kit. We use the TF100 Test Kit. Best bang for the buck and link in my sig. The kit will put you in control of your pool and you can avoid the slimey side and milkey water in the future! There is a link to TF TESTKITS in my sig and on the home page.

    Maybe I missed it, but what were the FC, CC & TC levels from the pool store test?

    When shocking your pool, you need to MAINTAIN shock level until your pool clears! It is not a one-time event, it is a process. I suggest you go out and buy some liquid chlorine, plain unscented bleach (6%) from the grocery store or some 10 or 12% from the pool store, but you are going to need some! It is all sodium hypochlorite, just different strengths. If you can get the 10 or 12%, you'll have less bottles to carry

    With a CYA level of 50, your shock level is 16. That is your goal to try to maintain. Use Jason's Pool Calculator to figure your doses.

    I suggest you go back to the article Jason pointed out on shocking your pool, re-read it, and ask any questions you may have.

    I'd hold off of that algecide. Also, I'd hold off on adding more stabilizer until your pool is clear. Adding more CYA/stabilizer now will only require more chlorine to reach shock level, i.e. cost more money to clear your pool!
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    What type of paint was used on your pool in 2005? The only paint I have had good results with is 2part epoxy, everything else tends to just come off and create that situation.
    Matthew
    Involved in the pool and spa industry
    Pittsburgh, PA

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thanks Butterfly--I'll be ordering the kit.

    Maybe I missed it, but what were the FC, CC & TC levels from the pool store test?
    The readings I have from the shop are below. Now that I have a bad problem and turning to the net for help I realize how stupid I have been and the money I have wasted on chemicals because the "pool shop guy said......

    The sheet from the pool shop is always the same. They list the categories tested, write in their results adjacent to a column that has the acceptable ranges.This is all I have ever gone by because I always thought that if what they said was happening to my water and it needed this or that to bring things back to the proper range, so be it. Even last year in mid-season I bought the CG, they came in the next day, plumbed it in, dumped in 300lbs of salt and told me I was all set and all I had to do was turn it on in 24 hrs.


    Salt-2800
    PH-7.8
    Alkalinity-120
    Stabilizer-50
    Chlorine-4


    Shocking
    . Ok Butterfly I will go and read that again. It's obvious to me that I have a lot to learn because I have not a clue what this means.

    "With a CYA level of 50, your shock level is 16. That is your goal to try to maintain." Use Jason's Pool Calculator to figure your dose

    Your advice on the chemicals has been taken.

    Thank you all for your positive responses.I'll let you know how things progress.

    Cheers,
    Gerry
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    What type of paint was used on your pool in 2005? The only paint I have had good results with is 2part epoxy, everything else tends to just come off and create that situation.

    Hi Matthew,

    It was a 2 part epoxy called Epoxon Pool Paint by a company called Technical Barrier Systems here in Ontario.

    Cheers
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Hey, The TF 100 Test Kit is, in my opinion, the best kit for the $ anywhere, but I want to apologize for recommending it to you because they are not allowed to ship it to Canada.

    You should be able to get the Taylor K-2006, but I will let those who know tell you the best place to order it!

    Now would be a good time to list all your pool and equipment specs in your sig

    Here's what we need and how to do it:

    Please put the following information in your signature.

    .....please make sure to add that is is painted and with what!

    1) The size of your pool in gallons
    2) The type filter you have (sand, DE, cartridge)
    3) If your pool is an AG (above ground) or IG (in ground)
    4) If it's IG, tell us if it's vinyl, plaster/pebble, or fiberglass
    5) If you know, tell us the size pump and the size (flow rate) of your filter.

    Information in your signature will show up each time you post.

    To change your profile or signature, see the User Control Panel link, just below the TFP logo at the top of the forum. Then select the profile link, under Options, and you can edit your location. Click on Edit Signature, again under Options, to change your signature.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thanks again Butterfly. Post edited by JohnT. PM sent to poster

    I've posted my sig.The numbers i have always used may be off.I got the dimensions right but will recalculate the gal capacity. Is there any kind of link or post you may know of that has a formula to determine average depth. Mine is 2.5 for about 5 ft before it starts a steep slope to the bottom at 8ft. The sides also slope inward and downward from the start of the downward slope

    Cheers
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Just found Jasons Pool Calculator and answered my own question in my last post
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Your signature is not showing up.

    Go back to the UCP, then click on Board Preferences, then click on Edit Posting Defaults. Make sure your YES button is highlighted for "Attach my signature by default".
    Helpful links: Pool School; CYA/Chlorine Chart
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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thanks for the heads up on the sig frustratedpoolmom.
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    G'day folks.

    My pool is looking much better already. There is a slight trace of white in areas and I think its just spots I have missed the past couple of days. There appears to be lots of chlorine yet and I have some on hand. I only have the paper strip sticks for testing but I will have a proper kit early next week.

    My CG is still off. Should I just keep brushing and back washing for now until I get the kit and learn to get the water balanced? As of Monday the salt level was at 2800 and I have lots on hand.Should I start the CG or wait? Still pretty cool around here and lots of rain forecast.

    Cheers
    Gerry
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Hi Gerry,

    So glad things are looking better already!

    Just my .02, but I'd keep the SWG off for now.

    I'd keep brushing and backwashing. Have you been reaching shock level?

    Well, if you could just rock along for a couple of days until you get your new kit, I think that would be good. Your water is probably pretty cold, right? so, not too much wanting to grown in there right now.

    When you get your kit and know what your #'s really are, we can go from there.

    Once we get your pool cleared, sparkling and beautiful, then you can tweak it and be the proud owner of a Trouble Free Pool!

    In the meantime, if you want something interesting to read, try this: water-balance-tips-for-a-swg-t3663.html
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

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    oletrout's Avatar
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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    Thanks Butterfly. Yep-it's still a bit Brrrr It's normally close to the end of May before any decent swimming weather comes around.

    Your points are well taken- i'll just keep reading so that I can hopefully figure out how to generate the #'s when the kit gets here.

    Cheers
    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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    Re: Concrete pool -milky water

    I expect to have my test kit by tomorrow or Wed. In the meantime it appears that the milky problem is gone and the pool is crystal clear. Took a sample to the pool shop this am with these results.SWG is still OFF.
    Salt-2400 and they say to add 2 bags
    PH :7.7
    Alk: 80
    Calcium: 120 and they say add 4KG=8.8 LB
    Stabilizer:40 and they say to add 3/4 KG = 1.7 LB

    Soooo-should I do anything at this point or wait for my kit and post results from it?

    Cheers,
    Gerry

    Southern Ontario. Concrete Lazy L shape pool painted in 2005 with 2 part epoxy paint ,42 x 20 , 2.5 ft deep in shallow end , 8 ft in deep end, with what i calculate as an average depth of 6 to 6.5 ft. or approx 38300 Gal. 1HP pump , Hayward sand filter model S-220T rated at 2.64 ft.2 , 52 GPM , Intellichlor IC40 CG

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