First test with TF-100

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Re: Alleged hydration stains.

JasonLion said:
Good!

It is important that you keep the PH in range at all times. Periods of high PH can lead to a variety of problems, including causing metal stains, if there are any metals in the water, and calcium scaling.

We haven't found a way that copper could have gotten into the water yet, but if there had been copper in the water, a PH of 8.2 would have been enough to cause it to form stains.
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I have, there is a Raypak heater, is there not? If the pH had dropped for any length of time (VERY possile with the use of trichlor the copper could be coming from the heat exchanger in the heater! Also, often vitamin C will not have any effect on copper staining. I would suggest having the water tested for copper.
 
Re: Alleged hydration stains.

The water was tested for copper, reported in this post. That doesn't prove anything though, because the copper could all be in the stains at this point, with none left in the water. My assumption so far is that the PH never got low enough for long enough, difficult to be sure though. Also, I believe that blue/green copper stains will tend to change color when exposed to Vitamin C, at least most of the time.
 
Re: Alleged hydration stains.

JasonLion said:
Also, I believe that blue/green copper stains will tend to change color when exposed to Vitamin C, at least most of the time.
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Yes but the brown to black ones don't. A good test would be to take an old cotton sock and fill it with dry acid and then let it sit on one of the stains for about 30 minutes to see if there is any change.

Also, I have a question.
Have you or the builder ever put trichlor tabs in the skimmer?
 
Re: Alleged hydration stains.

waterbear,

When my first plaster job was put in I was instructed to put trichlor tabs in the skimmer until the "pool school" guy come to show me how my equipment works, maybe a few days. When he arrived to do the pool school he removed the tabs and placed them in the in-line chlorinator. However, that was when my first plaster job was done. I have since had a second plaster job done due to odd colors in the first plaster job. It is this second plaster job that is experiencing that stains that are to this day getting worse. I have spoken with my pool designer and briefed him on my issue and the response by the warranty guy who came out to inspect the stains (the hydration stain answer). The desinger has stated that he will inspect the stains himself and judge if the stains are they type that would go away on thier own as previously stated by the warranty guy. I explained to my designer that having the stains and told to waite 9 months to see if they go away before correcting them (warranty guy) is like me purchasing a 35,000 dollar car with defective paint and told to come back in 9 months and then we will fix it. BS. :hammer: :grrrr:

I almost bought in to it but the stains are literaly spreading. Since my last shock the rate of FC loss over night was very minimal, Possibly in the 1ppm. So, it appears that the chlorine isnt batteling anything at this point.

During my conversation with my pool designer I informed him that I was considering contacting the warranty department and requesting that someone from corporate come and view the stains and see if they share the same conclusion as the warranty guy who originally came to the house.

Will shall see what comes of this.
 
Re: Alleged hydration stains.

So your stains are getting worse? :(
 
Wow, that just goes to show how completely unreliable the pool stores tests were....

Your chlorine is too way too low. I suggest you add some more CYA to get it to 30-50 and then keep your FC up accordingly. Never let the FC drop below 2-3. If you keep your chlorine around 6-7 ppm as Dave suggested, I suspect those stains will get better. The fact that your chlorine is so low is probably why they are "spreading", it's probably some kind of organic stain as Dave suspected days ago.

Your PH is also a little high, you need to lower it again with Muratic Acid. Don't add the acid and the chlorine at the same time! :wink:

As previously discussed, when your PH is in range and your FC is holding, you need to add some calcium to bring your CH up to 250.
 
Don't be afraid to add chlorine when it rains. You will need it especially since it's so low. It's not a waste!
 

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waterbear or all others in the know,

Is putting dry acid in the sock the same as putting in ph minus to test for stain type? I was going to conduct the test today after work but Houston just got hit with Satans rain storms. I had to drain approximately 5 inches out of the pool. Im pretty positive my FC bottomed out. Is their any point in bringing my FC back up since were suppose to have more rain the next couple of days? Today's storm reaked havoc on my pool and furniture. I was telling FrustratedPoolMom about a poor frog that met his maker in the port of my skimmer lid. :( Let me know what yall think.
 
Dry acid and PH Down and PH Minus, and various other products with similar names are all the same thing.

Yes, you should bring the FC level back up, especially if you are expecting more rain. If you let the FC level fall too far a little problem can quickly turn into a big problem. If I am expecting a major storm I raise the FC level a little extra in anticipation.
 
Ok, what does this mean,

I decided to finally test one of the stains in my pool with PH minus, I put approx 1/2 a pound in the sock and place it on the stain for approximately 30 minutes. May have been less because the sock floated to the top after the product dissolved. Anyway, the brown/black stain lightened to the color of light gray. You can still see the shape of the stain because the plaster is white, but its now the color as previously stated. What does this mean as far as stain type etc. Let me know what yall think.

Chris
 
took a water reading with TF-100 after heavy rains last night. I did shock my pool at 11pm last night due to heavy rains yesterday.

FC 10
CC 0
TC 10
PH 8.2
TA 70
CH 120

My FC is apparently holding, even after heavy rains last night and draining 4 inches from the pool this morning. Im concerned that my TA is a bit low given the high PH. How can I lower my PH without lowring my TA any further?
 
chris4150 said:
Ok, what does this mean,

I decided to finally test one of the stains in my pool with PH minus, I put approx 1/2 a pound in the sock and place it on the stain for approximately 30 minutes. May have been less because the sock floated to the top after the product dissolved. Anyway, the brown/black stain lightened to the color of light gray. You can still see the shape of the stain because the plaster is white, but its now the color as previously stated. What does this mean as far as stain type etc. Let me know what yall think.

Chris
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It means that the stain is metallic and probably copper in a form that is not easily removed. Acid washing is going to be your most effective way to treat the stains at this point. Now the question is where did the copper come from. I still suspect the heater unless you know of another possible copper source.

When they started your pool did they do an acid startup? If so did they bypass the heater until the pool pH was normalized? If not this could explain both the initial blue stains and the subsequent black/brown stains.

Just to make sure, have you tried holding a trichlor tablet on the stain for about 20 -30 minutes to see if there is any effect? (Place a trichlor tablet on the stain and put a Tupperware container filled with rocks on it to keep it in place.) IF the stain lightens it's organic but I don't think it is. If it stays the same or gets darker it's metal. Without actually seeing the stains it's hard to tell and pictures don't always do a good job of showing what the stain looks like.
 
Waterbear,

I do not know if they used an acid start up or not, I tend to doubt that they did. Im positive that they didnt by pass the heater since no one has been back to the house since the "pool school guy" was here and they spa has been used since start up (via heater). The only other source of copper that I can think of is one of our patio chairs was blown into the pool and left there while we were out of town, couple of days. However, Im not sure if their is any copper parts in the chair. I do know that when I pulled it out rust water ran into the pool. I will try to trichlor tab method as instructed. If it does turn darker, is the additonal darkness revearsable? Also, how would an acid wash be conducted. The PB mentioned doing an acid wash if the stains did not go away, in 9 months.
 
Ok,

I did as recommended by Waterbear and placed a trichlor tab on a couple of different stains and allowed the tab to sit on the stain for approximatley 30-40 minutes. In doing such a couple of the stains faded to approximatley the same color as the plaster. A bit hard to tell if its white or a light very light blue hue. One of the stains did appear to have changed but now that I think about it, the very first stain that I placed a trichlor tab on a few days ago has faded. Tell me what this means or what to do next to confirm my observations.
 

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