TF 100 Test kit arrived

[Johnny B]

I have run the 3 Cl tests four more times using the new info above. Here are the four tests (no I haven't added tonight's bleach yet).
FC 1.5
CC 20
TC 21.5

FC 20
CC 1
TC 21

FC 25
CC 4.5
TC 29.5

FC 9.5
CC 17
TC 26

How much bleach do I add.
Add anything else?
Goal FC still 15?
etc.

I'm about half out of that one test solution (R-0871), At this rate I'll need a gallon of it to last me till Sept. Do I get it locally to avoid the $10-$15 S&H ?

 

[Guest]

Perhaps if I walk you thorugh it step by step:

Start with a CLEAN vial!

get a 10 ml sample of pool water in the vial and add your 2 level scoops or 1 rounded scoop of DPD powder and swirl untils dissolved. Solution should turn pink. If not add another scoop of DPD power and swirl until solution turns pink and stays pink (i.e. does not 'flash' pink and turn clear in a few seconds.

Add one drop of titrant and swirl about 10 seocnds to mix. Repeat until solution turns clear and stays clear when it sits for about 10 seconds. The change to clear is pretty dramatic. I like to keep the vial constanly swirling while I add the drops about 10 seconds apart.
Record the number of drops it took to turn the solution clear and multiply by .5 (since you are using the 10 ml sample). to get your FC

Now add 5 drops of R-0003 to the sample you just tested. If there is CC present the sample will turn pink again...if it stays clear you are done and have no CC.
If it does turn pink then titrate it once again until it turns clear to get the CC. Once again, since you are using a 10 ml. sample multiply the number of drops by .5

If you suspect very low levels of chlorine and you want a resoluton better than .5 ppm then you can initially use a 25 ml sample. In this case each drop of titrant is equivalent to .2 ppm of either FC or CC, depending on which part of the test you are doing.

Hope this is helpful to you.

 

[Guest]

I have run the 3 Cl tests four more times using the new info above. Here are the four tests (no I haven't added tonight's bleach yet).
FC 1.5
CC 20
TC 21.5

FC 20
CC 1
TC 21

FC 25
CC 4.5
TC 29.5

FC 9.5
CC 17
TC 26

Were these tests done one after the other? If so you have a testing procedure error going on. Also, the really is only 2 chlorine tests with the FAS-DPD test, FC and CC. The TC is mathematically derived.

 

[Johnny B]

Sewing even more confusion for you:
Those 2.9 gal I put in this am was really 2.9 x 1.5 gal.
Yea "I'm real careful"- There are 3 different size jugs, I thought two sizes.
Sorry

 

[Johnny B]

"Were these tests done one after the other? If so you have a testing procedure error going on."

Yes, all in about 15-20 min.
That scoop size varies for sure.
I fell asleep waiting 15 sec betw drops on the 1st test.

I'm going looney here for sure

 

[Johnny B]

I have to go offline.
I'll be back at 11pm
I'll add chemicals then based on the latest post from you guys.
Thanks

 

[Guest]

scoop size is not critical as long as you add enough DPD powder to turn the sample pink, You can invest in a magnetic stirrer if you do not want to swirl. portable-magnetic-stirrer-from-apollo-pools-t1489.html

You definitely seem to have a problem with your testing procedure. I suspect that you are rushing things since if you repeat the test withing about 15 minutes you should get basically the same results (unless you have just added chemicals to the pool and they have not completely mixed yet).

 

[Guest]

I am going to suggest that you stop everything right now and go to the Pool School section of the forum and read EVERYTHING in it. When you are done take a deep breath read it again. If you don't understand something in it post a question about it and we will explain it.

The break from testing and dosing will do you good and your pool will not suffer that much of a setback in the short time it will take you to do this. In the long run your pool will benefit!

Once you do that take another deep breath and please CAREFULLY test your water and post the full set of test results. You can also plug the results into the Pool Calculator and figure out what you need on your own. It's good practice to see if your results are the same as ours and it's how you will learn to take care of your pool.

I think if you do this it will eliminate some of the problems you seem to be having (which are really quite normal for a newbie. It's a combination of nerves, carelessness, and inexperience--all three will disappear very quickly! )

 

[dlduvall]

Hey Johnny,
Just want to let you know "I feel your pain"! So much to learn. Add this to that....What? Started BBB in the middle of last year, and just kept reading and re-reading pool school after I bought the test kit. I didn't post like you but I probably should have! This crew helped me turn my green pool back to sparkling. Anyway, keep at it and it will get easier. I havent opened my pool yet, and I'm nervous about my first opening by myself. I am re-reading pool school again in anticipation, and your posts are a great help. Hang in there, and don't forget to breathe! :-D

 

[JasonLion]

You need to figure out how to do the test correctly, so that you get results that are the same, or very close to the same, each time. I have no idea what is going wrong. Perhaps if you describe the steps you take and what the sample looks like at each step we can figure out what is happening.

I suggest you use tap water, instead of pool water, to practice doing the test. Tap water will normally have some chlorine in it, sometimes FC sometimes CC depending on where you live. The lower chlorine levels in the tap water will be easier to practice with than the fairly high chlorine level currently in the pool. If you are on a well, your tap water may not have any chlorine in it and this won't work.

 

[Johnny B]

Last night at midnight I put in the bleach, 452 oz, per the latest post mentioning that.

I fully intend to spend a lot more time in pool school. Guys I am REALLY trying. No, I’m not stressed out, worried or some of the other insinuations that I know were meant with a sincere caring helpful tone. I simply want to get it right the 1st time if possible- yes I know it doesn’t happen in a day, me alone probably won’t make that happen.
If it makes you feel any better, I've spent a lot of time in chemistry labs in my life & my job entails almost unbelievable precision & prolonged concentration; I am extremely patient- probably to a fault.

I just, again, ran the two chlorine tests, four times, in succession over about 20 minutes.
Dropped one test on the floor so here are the other three:
6:00pm, about 18 hours after yesterday's 452oz of bleach.

pH 7.5

FC 28
CC 1.5

FC 4
CC 25.5

FC 2
CC 25.5

That dropped test FC was 1 or 2

I’m baffled to say the least.

My procedure:
Put the entire kit aside except what I need: chlorine cylinder, Powder+ scoop, R-0871 (instructions say R-871), R-0003.
With the clean cylinder
Rinse it 5 times in the pool
Go down 12-18” in the pool to fill it, same spot of the pool, same depth spot on my forearm, fill to 10ml- double check- yes 10ml
Add the heaping scoop- sometimes it’s a pale pink, sometimes it bright red ( 6 minutes difference mind you)
Add the R-0871, swirling constantly, counting drops out load, about 10 seconds between drops, getting the above results. One time, I forget which & when; the solution turned a brown yellow.

Tried the tap water- it remained clear- hard to believe there is no chlorine in it- it’s city water, added another scoop, still clear, added a third, clear, so forget it.

Do you want me to go run all the other tests, or just some, or let's stick w the Cl for now to try & solve this?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

OK, how long after adding chlorine are you testing and just how green is your pool? These will have a definite influence on your test results.

Also, why did you drop one of the tests? Did you have a problem with it?

If the first test has the high chlorine level and the next three have very little chlorine this is actually in line with the chlorine being consumed in killing algae. If the high chlorine level was NOT the first test then, as they say, "Houston, we have a problem".

 

[Guest]

FC 28
CC 1.5

FC 4
CC 25.5

FC 2
CC 25.5

Ok, assuming the tests were done in the order you posted them and it was shortly after adding chlorine and ,assuming that your water is very green or has a very high organic load (not unusual for a just opened pool, particlarly if there was any degradation of CYA by bacteria while the pool was closed) it looks like the FC is being consumed very quickly, combining with organics, and converting to CC. This is not unusual and the cure is to keep adding chlorine to keep the FC levels at our target (which we really won't know until you test the CYA.)

At this point I would do a full set of tests and post them. Because of the high chlorine levels some of the readings might not be valid but don't worry about that, we will let you know what to ignore at this point.
Once we have the full set of numbers we can take it from there. Your CYA levels are important at this point to determine what's going on. Also, your TA test might not go from green to red at the high chlorine levels but from pale blue to pale yellow. Even tough the color change is not the same the test result is still valid.

 

[JasonLion]

It is probably time to do a test for extreme chlorine demand.

 

[Johnny B]

I failed to mention my ph is 7.5 & so I edited my post to reflect this.

how long after adding chlorine are you testing.
The latest tests were performed about 18 hours after adding bleach (bleach went in at midnight & tests were done 6pm the next day, I’ll edit my post to reflect this)


and just how green is your pool?
Not green at all, water is clear, bottom debris remains, getting cleaned well (cleaned the DE filter twice, pressure stable).
Plenty of pollen now, lots of wind blowing in leaf buds, but getting cleaned well.
My Polaris is out of action, just got a crack in the canister of it at the pump area, I’m brushing, all the stuff is on the bottom until I stir it from brushing. Walls need brushing as well & am doing that.

Also, why did you drop one of the tests? Did you have a problem with it?
Dropped as in dropped it on the floor by accident.

“If the first test has the high chlorine level and the next three have very little chlorine this is actually in line with the chlorine being consumed in killing algae.”
Even if all four (1 failure) tests were performed in a 20 minute span, one after the other?

If the high chlorine level was NOT the first test then, as they say, "Houston, we have a problem".
Tests 2 & 3 seem similar leading me to think I erred on test 1 (or does it not work that way?); but gosh I am careful so why/how did I err on test 1?

“Houston, we have a problem”
Roger that, standing by

It is probably time to do a test for extreme chlorine demand.
I looked at this link. I’ll do it when you tell me.
You say “probably”, I take it that means not yet? Someone asked for all the other tests so perhaps you want me to do those then let me know when/if I should perform a test for extreme chlorine demand.
Its about midnight & I see my 2 helpers are offline. I’ll assume they won’t be back until tomorrow. So what I will do tonight, unless my 2 helpers or someone advises me otherwise, is put in the calculator an FC of 3 & a target of 15, thus needing to add 493 oz of bleach.
I am willing to go do the other test now at midnight, but if nobody Is here to assist at midnight, then I assume you would prefer I do the tests tomorrow when you can help & then I can perform the tasks as instructed & update with further tests. I likely won’t be able to get going tomorrow until 4:00pm range or later.

I’ll wait about 15 minutes, if nobody responds; I’ll add the bleach & reflect that in tomorrow’s post.
Houston, if we don’t connect tonight, see you tomorrow.
Thanks

 

[Guest]

If your tests were done in a 20 minute time span 18 hours after your last chemical addition then your problem is iimproper testing procedure. If you consistently have the first in a series of tests showing high FC and the remaining show high CC then your vial is possibly contaminated and not properly rinsed out.

I think it's time to review your testing procedure in depth!

 

[Guest]

My procedure:
Put the entire kit aside except what I need: chlorine cylinder, Powder+ scoop, R-0871 (instructions say R-871), R-0003.
With the clean cylinder
Rinse it 5 times in the pool
Go down 12-18” in the pool to fill it, same spot of the pool, same depth spot on my forearm, fill to 10ml- double check- yes 10ml
Add the heaping scoop- sometimes it’s a pale pink, sometimes it bright red ( 6 minutes difference mind you)
Add the R-0871, swirling constantly, counting drops out load, about 10 seconds between drops, getting the above results. One time, I forget which & when; the solution turned a brown yellow.
Are you then adding the 5 drops of R-0003 and retitrating to get your CC?

Tried the tap water- it remained clear- hard to believe there is no chlorine in it- it’s city water, added another scoop, still clear, added a third, clear, so forget it.
Once again, are you adding the 5 drops of R-0003 to see if CC is present?

I would suggest to get a sample from your pool in a container and then use that sample to test and repeat the test on the sample to see if your results vary as much as they have been instead of dipping each test right from the pool. This would tell us if your procedure has problems or if there is very pool cirulation in your pool.
Edited for font size. JasonLion

 

[Johnny B]

Ok, assuming the tests were done in the order you posted them
yes
and it was shortly after adding chlorine
No, 18 hours after chlorine.
and ,assuming that your water is very green
No, clear
or has a very high organic load (not unusual for a just opened pool, particlarly if there was any degradation of CYA by bacteria while the pool was closed)
See prior post, windy, leaf buds, pollen, great skimmer & washing itit looks like the FC is being consumed very quickly, combining with organics, and converting to CC. This is not unusual and the cure is to keep adding chlorine to keep the FC levels at our target (which we really won't know until you test the CYA.)
I shall run all the tests, one time, post them ASAP

Also, your TA test might not go from green to red at the high chlorine levels but from pale blue to pale yellow. Even though the color change is not the same the test result is still valid.
Thanks, I would not have known


If your tests were done in a 20 minute time span 18 hours after your last chemical addition then your problem is improper testing procedure.
It has got to be me
If you consistently have the first in a series of tests showing high FC and the remaining show high CC then your vial is possibly contaminated and not properly rinsed out.
Dumped then 5 rinses at the surface in the pool, man. It has got to be me. But I’ll move a few feet from the rinse site. You want it rinsed I tap water?
I think it's time to review your testing procedure in depth!
I hear ya.


One time, I forget which & when; the solution turned a brown yellow.
Are you then adding the 5 drops of R-0003 and retitrating to get your CC?
Honestly I forget just when it happened, I don’t recall failing to add the R-0003 at the indicated time

Tried the tap water- it remained clear- hard to believe there is no chlorine in it- it’s city water, added another scoop, still clear, added a third, clear, so forget it.
Once again, are you adding the 5 drops of R-0003 to see if CC is present?
Since it didn’t turn pink, I didn’t proceed.

Wait a minute!
When I read the TF 100 test kit instructions on the inside cover, Chlorine Drop Test.
Line 4 “record results as FC”
Do you want me to toss that solution & get new pool water before doing Line 5? Because I am going right to step 5 with the same solution.
Line 5: “… add 3 drops of R-003…”

I would suggest to get a sample from your pool in a container and then use that sample to test and repeat the test on the sample to see if your results vary as much as they have been instead of dipping each test right from the pool.
You would think I could have come up with that. I’ll do it. In addition to the other set of full tests. In this bucket I’ll only do the two chlorine tests

This would tell us if your procedure has problems or if there is very pool circulation in your pool.
Circulation should be good, recent skimmer repair, tested with air & water & funnel formed.
Drains should be good, I’ll double check, and bottom debris seems to be sweeping into them well. New pump motor (in 2006 I believe, I’ll get that in my signature).

I’ll await the answer to my R-003 question before doing ANY chlorine tests.

If it matters to my helpers, I’m pretty free from now Wed 4/9 - & including Sun 4/12.


Thanks

 

[frustratedpoolmom]

"Do you want me to toss that solution & get new pool water before doing Line 5? Because I am going right to step 5 with the same solution."

You are correct, you go right to step 5 with the same solution. (BTW, I usually rinse with tap water, but never thought to ask.)

This is quite the mystery.

We need an "eating popcorn" emoticon....

 

[JasonLion]

You should rinse with tap water and then again with pool water. You don't want any of the test reagents getting into the pool, so first you pour out the completed test in the sink and do a rinse with tap water. Then, when you are ready to do another test, you rinse in the pool so that none of the tap water will contaminate the test. That way of describing things kind of mixes up the order. The full sequence is really: start with a clean vial, rinse in pool water, perform the test, dispose of the completed test sample in the sink, rinse with tap water so the vial will be clean for next time.

Both the FC and CC test are done with a single sample. The CC test will not read correctly unless the FC test has been done with the sample first.

If FC was 0 and CC was 5, the sample will not turn pink when you first add the R-0870 powder. That just tells you that the FC is 0, you then add the five drops of R-0003 to see if there is any CC.

Do you have the pump running for at least an hour before doing a test? You want the pool water well mixed before you test it.