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Thread: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

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    start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Very new to this site.
    Just finished TFP's Pool School- not memorized yet but I have been through it.
    I still have much reading to do elsewhere on this forum.

    We are soon to open our pool.
    1- I have chlorine pucks on hand from last season. Use them to start or not? Hate to waste money.

    2- I have a test kit unlike the 3 recommended. Will get the TF 100 for sure, do I do that now or just get the refills of what I lack.
    I have Leslie’s DPD Deluxe Test Kit, $29 online, is a smaller version of recommended Leslie’s, so I lack a few items
    My kit has
    1- Combined chlorine FAS-DPD titration test. I have 2 yellow bottles R-0001 & R-0003 that state DPD Reagent # 1 & #2. so same?
    2- I need OTO Total Chlorine/Bromine for sure; it is not in my kit.
    3- Total Alkalinity- I have one bottle with Green cap & green liquid that states R-0008 Total Alkalinity. Is this all I need. I also have 2 other clear liquid with green caps that state R-0007 Thiosulafate N/100 & the other states R-009 Sulfuric Acid .12N
    4- I see nothing that mentions “Calcium Hardness” so I need that, right? Or are the 3 green cap bottles I mentioned above that?
    5 Same question re Cyuranic Acid
    6- I don’t need salt strips, right?

    My guess is to just get the TF 100 kit & trash the old one but if that is silly then I won’t. If the answer is to just get the TF 100, do I need salt strips?
    Thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Hey, Johnny,

    Welcome to the forum. Wait until you get a CYA test result before you decide whether or not to use the pucks. Even if your CYA is high, you will not waste them.....they are very long lasting and are perfect for most summer vacations when you are unable to tend the pool daily..

    I have a dog in the fight on test kits so I need to let others respond. I'm sure they'll be along pretty quick.....the forum traffic is really picking up. It's fun to "listen" to the excitement in everyone's post as swimming season approaches.

    Glad to have another North Carolinian on board!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Keep your pucks. They are good to use for tossing in a floater while going on vacations and such.

    You need a complete, service type test kit. The TF100 is the best buy for sure. Go with that. The three green capped bottles are for total alkalinity. Calcium hardness ones will have blue caps if they are Taylor reagents. CYA testing solution has a white cap if it is Taylor. You only need salt strips if you have a SWG.

    You don't really need the OTO test. I would say that the FAS-DPD is a need. I never use the OTO test at all. If you get the TF100 though, you'll have it all and for a much better price with more reagent volume than the comparable Taylor K2006. I think that the CYA kit in the TF100 will test down to 20 ppm which is kinda nice too.
    10K gallon IG gunite with waterfall; Pentair CC320P filter; WhisperFlo 2 HP pump
    TF Test Kits - Pool Math - Pool School
    "It depends."- JohnT

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    I would go ahead and get the TF100. You have a few of the reagents that come with the TF100, but by the time you purchase all of the individual reagents you are missing you would end up spending more money. Also, you probably have 3/4 oz bottles of each reagent, and the TF100 comes with 2 oz bottles of most of them.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    I bought a TF100 then discovered a Leslie's DPD Deluxe left behind by the previous owner. My short answer is that I'll toss the R-0001, R-0002, and R-0015 from the Leslie's kit; the rest of it can be used with the TF100 because it's the same stuff.

    Now the long answer:

    I have been totally unimpressed by the DPD drop test. Maybe mine is too old or something, but the two or three times I've compared it to the TF100 FAS powder test, the DPD drop test has always read way lower. I am inclined to trust the FAS test. So I'll toss R-0001 and R-0002. The R-0003 is identical to what's used in the TF100 so I'll keep that. R-0015 (acid demand) is kind of pointless if you use the Pool Calculator, so I'll toss that too.

    Like 257WbyMag said, I don't use the OTO test (comes with the K1000 that's in the TF100). If you're shooting for FC in the 1-3 range it might be okay, but my target is higher than that. Even if that was my range, I have trouble distinguishing some of the color blocks (2 and 3 look the same to me) so I'd rather use the FAS-DPD anyway.

    The TA test in the Leslie's kit is chemically identical to what's in the TF100. You get bigger bottles of stuff in the TF100, that's the only difference. The TA test uses all 3 reagents (R-0007, R-0008, R-0009).

    CH (calcium hardness) is different from TA (total alkalinity). Leslie's DPD Deluxe doesn't have the CH test. CH mainly figures into whether you'll have problems with calcium scaling, or damage to your plaster. The "CSI" in the Pool Calculator will tell you that. If you didn't have a plaster pool I'd say it was the least important of the tests. It might be anyway.

    Again like 257WbyMag said, stash the pucks to use for vacation time. I was using them consistently before I understood about CYA, and had to do a 3/4 drain and refill to recover. The rule of thumb is that for each 10ppm FC you get 6ppm CYA, when you use pucks. So now I might use one or two in a floater for a week or so, once in a while, when I'm not around to add other forms of chlorine; but basically I have a lifetime supply of pucks.

    Hope this helps,
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B
    My kit has
    1- Combined chlorine FAS-DPD titration test. I have 2 yellow bottles R-0001 & R-0003 that state DPD Reagent # 1 & #2. so same?
    No, you have a DPD test, not the FAS-DPD test. Your test uses a color comparator and is prone to bleachout and will not test over 5 ppm without doing dilutions.
    2- I need OTO Total Chlorine/Bromine for sure; it is not in my kit.
    3- Total Alkalinity- I have one bottle with Green cap & green liquid that states R-0008 Total Alkalinity. Is this all I need. I also have 2 other clear liquid with green caps that state R-0007 Thiosulafate N/100 & the other states R-009 Sulfuric Acid .12N
    These are the TA test reagents. All three are needed.

    4- I see nothing that mentions “Calcium Hardness” so I need that, right? Or are the 3 green cap bottles I mentioned above that?
    Your kit does not test for this.
    5 Same question re Cyuranic Acid
    Your kit does not test for this.
    6- I don’t need salt strips, right?
    Not unless you have a SWG.
    My guess is to just get the TF 100 kit & trash the old one but if that is silly then I won’t. If the answer is to just get the TF 100, do I need salt strips?
    Thanks
    Get either a TF100 or a Taylor K-2006. If you do not have a salt water chlorine generator you do not need the salt strips. IMHO, the TF100 is a better bang for the buck.

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Thanks
    TF100 for sure.
    Store the pucks for when I'm away.
    We are soon to open, how many gallons of bleach should I have around, 2gal, 15gal?

    I haven't ever done BBB & so don't have it mastered. Much more to read on this forum.

    BTW, went to my BBB for Beginners article in the May 2008 TFP newsletter
    newsletter.php?view_newsletter=6
    can't get that baby to cut & paste, I need it printed so I can apply this knowledge.
    Is it somewhere where I can print it?

    Thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    You can open the newsletter in your browser and use the print function in the web browser.

    How much bleach you will actually need depends on your CYA level and if you got algae over the winter. Five gallons is probably a good place to start. If you have somewhere cool and dark to store the bleach it wouldn't hurt to get more than that.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Thanks to all.
    Forgot to ask, how much Borax & baking soda should I get to have on hand for the opening of the pool?
    We are soon to open our pool.

    Thanks
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Hey, John,

    Perhaps none. Do your tests first and post them up here on the forum and we'll all help with suggested levels.

    Borax will raise your ph (which you may not need to do) and baking soda will raise your TA (which you may not need to do, either)

    There's some suggested normal levels for your tests up in "Pool School" for you to look at as well as the advice you'll get here. Your pool water chemistry really begins with your test results.

    Nice, too, that if you do need anything, you can get most of it at the grocery store!
    Dave S. - Forum owner
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    I like to have a box of borax and a box of baking soda on hand at all times. They last nearly forever, and when you need them it is a pain to have to run out to the store.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    I like to have a box of borax and a box of baking soda on hand at all times. They last nearly forever, and when you need them it is a pain to have to run out to the store.
    And if all else fails, use the borax in your laundry and use the baking soda for (gasp!) baking something.
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    I like to have a box of borax and a box of baking soda on hand at all times. They last nearly forever, and when you need them it is a pain to have to run out to the store.
    Ditto for a gal of Muriatic acid and a tub of CYA and Calcium Chloride!

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Thanks guys.
    That Baking Soda, I've never seen one other than what you see in a refridge, size of my fist. Is that the size?
    19,800 gallons (closed/winter 18,654 gal); plaster; 18x34 Ft kidney bean shape, Depth 3Ft-5Ft. Built 1992
    Pentair Whisper Flow Pump 1HP. Winter safety cover w anchors.
    Sand filter, Pentair Sand Dollar Top Mount Model SD80; Effective Filtration Area 3.5SF
    - FlowRate 75GPM, 8Hr 36,000, 10Hr 45,000, 12Hr 54,000; Pressure Weight 50PSI
    BBB (Hayward Chlorinator when leave town). Polaris 360 cleaner.

  15. Back To Top    #15
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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    You can sometimes find Arm & Hammer baking soda in 4 lb boxes. That is what I was thinking of. A couple of 1 lb boxes would be just as good and not too much more expensive.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    I have never used anything to raise PH or total alkalinity when using bleach for chlorine - haven't needed to. And I used mostly bleach / 10% liquid chlorine last year. Started this season by using pucks; my CYA was a little low, and needed a little bit of PH booster. I would have gone the BBB route for that, but I just happened to be by the pool stuff at Lowes, and they had 2 pound canisters of PH up for $2 and something.

    Anyway, if your fill water isn't naturally low in PH or total alkalinity and you use bleach, you probably wouldn't need borax or baking soda.

    BTW, best place to get pool chemicals - Lowes, Home Depot, grocery stores. Worst place - pool stores!
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    I would suggest you check your fill water before loading up on the BBB ingredients. For example, all I need to add to my pool is chlorine and muriatic acid. My water is quite hard and very alkiline. I've a 4 lb box of baking soda that is now 3 years old that I've never opened, because I bought it before checking my fill water.

    dave
    15,500 gal, inground gunite pool with 7 ft spa, 2 speed pump 2hp/.33hp, 3/4 hp booster pump, Intermatic P1353 timer, AutoPilot SC-48, Sand filter with ZeoBest, Heater, that I never use . . .

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    I've a 4 lb box of baking soda that is now 3 years old that I've never opened, because I bought it before checking my fill water.
    Get a big jug of vinegar, and you can use it for bottle rockets!
    --paulr
    BBB "Intermediate Swimmer"
    IG plaster pool 18.5K gal, Hayward Pro-Grid DE filter, 3/4 HP Hydramax II; Polaris 380, 3/4 HP booster
    AG spa 325 gal, probably Sundance of some kind
    Water testing instructions on one page

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    You can sometimes find Arm & Hammer baking soda in 4 lb boxes. That is what I was thinking of. A couple of 1 lb boxes would be just as good and not too much more expensive.
    I have also found it in 15 lb bags at costco.

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: start w BBB use up 2 items on hand

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR
    Quote Originally Posted by lovingHDTV
    I've a 4 lb box of baking soda that is now 3 years old that I've never opened, because I bought it before checking my fill water.
    Get a big jug of vinegar, and you can use it for bottle rockets!
    --paulr
    Now that is a fun use for baking soda! And if you have kids, you can get them interested in chemistry that way!
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

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