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Thread: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    To make the long story short - I have a hottub, without any "guts", and I've got "Guts" from an old Hot tub.
    I'm trying to get them together into a workable unit. I have advanced DIY skills, but I am still capable of Moron moves. I have many questions before tackling this, and am open to ideas and suggestions from the people on this site who have already helped me so many times with my pool questions.

    Heres the inventory'
    1 very basic above ground round fiberglass hottub, insulated, plumbed with 4 sidewall jets, there are 2 air intakes mounted on the rim. exiting the bottom are 2 PVC pipe stubs - I assume 1 in and 1 out.

    Although the old hottub was a 220v system, the parts individually are 120v

    1 1/2hp 6 amp 120v pump 2"
    1 DE Filter 2"
    1 120v Electric heater element connected to a 2.5amp 120v pump with 3/4 fittings
    separate blower motor with approx 1 1/2 outlet.

    Wiring questions
    assuming - I have a 50amp GFCI 220v service installed - am I ok with putting the filter/pump on one 120 side of the circuit and the Heater/pump on the other side. If I use the blower I'd probably add that to the Filter/pump side - any comments

    Plumbing -
    Either one of the systems is pretty simple to see:
    Out from tub - to the pump - through the filter - Into the tub
    or Out from tub - to the pump - through the heater - into the tub.

    The Question is where to merge the two, Keeping in mind that the heater/pump will often be running when the filter is not (Can it draw through the filter/pump when they are off?)

    And the heater will run when the filter is on ( will the more powerfull filter/pump allow the water to circulate past the heating element on the 3/4 line with the less powerefull pump running)

    I am picturing a system which is plumbed parrallel since I don't think a series circuit with 2" and 3/4" will work. Will I need checkvalves? (The old hot tub did not have checkvalves and worked fine though I can't remember how it was plumbed.

    Lastly - where would I put the Blower ( Oh please not there

    Many thanks to all who have ideas
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 25,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.5Hp/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    BROMINE - (Purchased Home that way) Bleach shock
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    well I didnt read the whole thing but stopped right away where I thought I could help.. First.. Im an electrician.. Second, a 240V GFCI will NOT work if you use each phase of the breaker for a different device.

    What a GFCI does is it measures the current (amps) leaving the breaker on the phases and compares it to the returning current on the Neutral. If the difference is more then.. i dunno the exact number... but lets just say 50 mA, the breaker trips.

    Now the reason you will have a problem is that the current leaving each pahse is highly unlikely to be ballanced.. and all of it will 'return' on the shared neutral. thus confusing the breaker... which trips. If you so happen to have the same current on both pahses and the pump and heater come on and off at the same time.. exactly to the mSec. then yeah it should work. otherwise no. You would need to get two seperate singlepole 120V breakers.... now Ill go back to reading and see if I made an idiot of myself!!
    my pool: 18x32 20,000ish Gallons with a 3/4HP pump and sand filter. 1 skimmer 2 returns. Cheap Ebay Kreepy Knock off. Rookie BBB user.

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    Thanks for that!
    See what I meant about the Moron Moves?
    I'll bet that one response saved me weeks of problems - Thats why I love this site
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 25,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.5Hp/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    BROMINE - (Purchased Home that way) Bleach shock
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    budster's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    While I think you are in for some challenges, do you have any controller, of any sort that will allow you to operate any of this? Air switch box? Electronic box? It sounds like you are building a "system" from compenents. A controller of some sort (Intermatic, etc.) could make this a lot easier job. Otherwise, how did you plan on turning on and off each of the components?

    A simple control with even the old fashoned "stepper" air controls comes to mind.

    BTW, the "air controls" mounted on the lip are most likely "venturi" type intakes that are plumbed as the "top" line of a dual-plumbed set of jets. If you use a blower, you will want to disable those.

    If you components are still in a "skid pack" of some sort, it's very reasonable that the pump, and other items are 110v., even with a 220v input (which mostly takes the heater element to a higher, faster heating). If the elemet is say, 5.5kw at 110 input, the 220 input will most likely take it to 11Kw.

    Pictures would be nice.
    http://www.swimmingpool.com/

    "Leave the gun...take the cannolis"

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    Controler -
    Each Item I have , Filter Pump, Heater,Heater Pump, Blower Motor, all terminate in 3 prong standard 120v Plugs, ( I don't believe there is a 220 option for the heater at all).
    Although the original configuration had an internal controller with switches mounted in the top rim of the old tub, the controller itself relied on basic wiring of the individual outlets, the heater pump plugs into the heater so both are always on or off together (PS Heater has a breaker and reset switch built in along with the temperature adjustment). My intention was to mount switches at the small pump housing, away from the tub, and just rely on individual on off switches. This configuration would be #1<switched 120 outlet - 3prong plug - cord - filter moter> #2<Switched 120 outlet - 3prong plug - cord - heater/heater pump> optional - #3 Switched outlet - 3prong plug - cord - Blower Motor> If as you say there is a venturi system in this tub, I will skip the blower motor. I'll try to add pictures later
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 25,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.5Hp/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    BROMINE - (Purchased Home that way) Bleach shock
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    Do you have any sort of timer for your filter pump?

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    MJCP's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    I am thinking of using an Intermatic 24hr I use one of them on the pool and it works pretty well
    15x32 Lazy L Inground / Concrete - 25,000 US Gal 1979 build
    1.5Hp/ Sand Filter, 7th season with Pool
    Painted cement finish repainted 2011
    BROMINE - (Purchased Home that way) Bleach shock
    400,000 btu Pentair Master Temp NG

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    spishex's Avatar
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    Re: A real challenge? or am I making it too difficult

    Well, if you've got filtration on a timer and then heat permanently plugged in with thermostat control, then that's a solid foundation. Is the filter pump a two speed pump, or are you considering a dedicated jet pump? How about a light?

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