Best Way to Remedy My Out of Range Test Results

Cam13 · Sep 1, 2023

Hey guys,

Newbie pool owner here. I live in Las Vegas and have had my pebble tech pool with attached raised spa for about a year now and would like to make sure I am taking preventative measures and maintaining my pool correctly to ensure it’s longevity in lifespan. The pool is 28x14 and about 11,185 gallons, with the deep end being 5 1/2 ft deep.

Earlier this morning, I tested my pool water with the Taylor 2006C test kit and see that the calcium hardness and CYA levels are high. This is probably due to initially using chlorine pucks almost exclusively for the first year of pool ownership (I’ve now learned they add CYA which doesn’t really get removed from your pool), along with the hard water of Las Vegas paired with Cal Hypo shock treatments contributing to the high calcium levels.

I’ve now switched from pucks to liquid chlorine 2-3x a week. Not sure if this is related or not, but my PH level is always slightly high (around 8.0) even after I bring it down to 7.2 with muriatic or dry acid during my weekly maintenance, it’s right back to 7.8-8.0 PH the following week. Not sure if this is expected behavior or if the PH level should stabilize a bit lower with proper maintenance and more balanced water. I also have a Dolphin Premier robot vacuum that I run 2-3 times per week with the ultra fine filter cartridge. I also leave my pool pump on 24/7 when not using the robot. My CSI level appears to be around 0.2 when factoring in the temp of the water which is usually about 78 degrees.

Below are my test results after this morning’s maintenance:

Total ALK 85ppm
PH 7.4
Calcium hardness 525ppm
FC 8ppm
CC 0ppm
CYA 80ppm

I was thinking of draining some of the water and introduce some fresh water (200ppm of calcium from the hose) in an effort to reduce calcium hardness and CYA. My pool is equipped with a faucet (picture attached), so I was wondering if it would be feasible to drain a portion of the water by simply attaching a hose to the faucet and turning it on for a little while. I don’t want to damage the pump with air going into the skimmer when the water level gets below the skimmer line, so I’d assume this would need to be done by draining from the in floor main drain? If this wouldn’t work, would it be better to get a sump pump or would the faucet be in lieu of the pump?

Please let me know if any additional information is needed. Any guidance would be appreciated!

Best Regards,
Cam

PoolStored · Sep 2, 2023

Cam, Welcome to TFP!!! :shark:

You are way ahead of the game with your awareness about CYA and CH from the Colorado (input 200ppm) and Cal-Hypo! Congrats!

Chlorine is king the in the chemicals game. With CYA of 80, you need to raise your FC to 9-11. Always follow this...link-->FC/CYA Levels

Cam13 said:
Not sure if this is expected behavior or if the PH level should stabilize a bit lower with proper maintenance and more balanced water.

Yes, expected behavior. Keep on top of pH. As you reduce pH with muriatic, your TA will drop. You may find, when your TA is between 60-80, your pH will stabilize around 7.8-8. You don't have to force it down to 7.2, when your TA is 60-80. A bit of experimentation, you may find TA between 60-80 and pH 7.8, 7.9, 8 will stabilize. How old is the plaster?

Cam13 said:
CYA which doesn’t really get removed from your pool

CYA will degrade over time. Pool temperature (high) will degrade CYA faster. Most users find a 5-10ppm degradation per month, maybe a bit higher if your pool is 90 degrees plus.

CSI. Are you using Pool Math? Link-->PoolMath (I assume you are because you mention CSI....)

If you are going to replace water, read up section 3.5, "No drain water exchange" here:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Best to use a sump pump vs. your pool pump...running a pool pump dry is expensive.

Bperry · Sep 2, 2023

Cam13 said:
Hey guys,

Newbie pool owner here. I live in Las Vegas and have had my pebble tech pool with attached raised spa for about a year now and would like to make sure I am taking preventative measures and maintaining my pool correctly to ensure it’s longevity in lifespan. The pool is 28x14 and about 11,185 gallons, with the deep end being 5 1/2 ft deep.

Earlier this morning, I tested my pool water with the Taylor 2006C test kit and see that the calcium hardness and CYA levels are high. This is probably due to initially using chlorine pucks almost exclusively for the first year of pool ownership (I’ve now learned they add CYA which doesn’t really get removed from your pool), along with the hard water of Las Vegas paired with Cal Hypo shock treatments contributing to the high calcium levels.

I’ve now switched from pucks to liquid chlorine 2-3x a week. Not sure if this is related or not, but my PH level is always slightly high (around 8.0) even after I bring it down to 7.2 with muriatic or dry acid during my weekly maintenance, it’s right back to 7.8-8.0 PH the following week. Not sure if this is expected behavior or if the PH level should stabilize a bit lower with proper maintenance and more balanced water. I also have a Dolphin Premier robot vacuum that I run 2-3 times per week with the ultra fine filter cartridge. I also leave my pool pump on 24/7 when not using the robot. My CSI level appears to be around 0.2 when factoring in the temp of the water which is usually about 78 degrees.

Below are my test results after this morning’s maintenance:

Total ALK 85ppm
PH 7.4
Calcium hardness 525ppm
FC 8ppm
CC 0ppm
CYA 80ppm

I was thinking of draining some of the water and introduce some fresh water (200ppm of calcium from the hose) in an effort to reduce calcium hardness and CYA. My pool is equipped with a faucet (picture attached), so I was wondering if it would be feasible to drain a portion of the water by simply attaching a hose to the faucet and turning it on for a little while. I don’t want to damage the pump with air going into the skimmer when the water level gets below the skimmer line, so I’d assume this would need to be done by draining from the in floor main drain? If this wouldn’t work, would it be better to get a sump pump or would the faucet be in lieu of the pump?

Please let me know if any additional information is needed. Any guidance would be appreciated!

Best Regards,
Cam

I think you could wait a bit to replace water. If you can find a way to use softened make up water, it may be fine with splash out removing some calcium and CYA.

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

PoolStored said:
Cam, Welcome to TFP!!!

You are way ahead of the game with your awareness about CYA and CH from the Colorado (input 200ppm) and Cal-Hypo! Congrats!

Chlorine is king the in the chemicals game. With CYA of 80, you need to raise your FC to 9-11. Always follow this...link-->FC/CYA Levels

Thank you for the link! I've bookmarked this and will refer to this to determine what my FC should be based on my CYA readings. Would it be alright to always have my FC between the range of 9-11? I'm hoping it won't damage any of the pool equipment or cause irritation for swimmers. We had some heavy rainfall the past few days so I had to some of the water in my pool to avoid it overfilling which seems to have slightly decreased the CYA and Calcium readings when I did my weekly maintenance yesterday, so that turned out to be helpful.

PoolStored said:
Yes, expected behavior. Keep on top of pH. As you reduce pH with muriatic, your TA will drop. You may find, when your TA is between 60-80, your pH will stabilize around 7.8-8. You don't have to force it down to 7.2, when your TA is 60-80. A bit of experimentation, you may find TA between 60-80 and pH 7.8, 7.9, 8 will stabilize. How old is the plaster?

Good to know. The pool itself is just barely 1 year old as it was completed last year toward the end of August. We chose to go with a pebble tech finish, in case that's pertinent.

PoolStored said:
CYA will degrade over time. Pool temperature (high) will degrade CYA faster. Most users find a 5-10ppm degradation per month, maybe a bit higher if your pool is 90 degrees plus.

Ah, I didn't know that. Many places said that CYA doesn't degrade, but will only really be removed (without reverse osmosis treatment) with splash out water, partially draining the pool, or possibly by using flocculent to bind the CYA to larger debris particles, then manually vacuuming the particles out. Our pool temp gets as high as 80 degrees, but is usually 78.

PoolStored said:
CSI. Are you using Pool Math? Link-->PoolMath (I assume you are because you mention CSI....)

Yes, sir! I've downloaded the app and entered my test results to ensure I'm good in terms of CSI. The Taylor watergram is also within range.

PoolStored said:
If you are going to replace water, read up section 3.5, "No drain water exchange" here:

Draining - Further Reading

www.troublefreepool.com

Best to use a sump pump vs. your pool pump...running a pool pump dry is expensive.

Wow, the thought of having the pool pop out due to incorrect water removal didn't even cross my mind. I'll be sure to do the water replacement technique should I need to drain the water in the future. I'll also purchase a sump pump to do the draining to avoid any risk of damaging the pool pump.

PoolStored · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
Would it be alright to always have my FC between the range of 9-11? I'm hoping it won't damage any of the pool equipment or cause irritation for swimmers.

Yes. Perfectly safe for you and equipment...will not cause irritation of any sort.

Cam13 said:
We chose to go with a pebble tech finish, in case that's pertinent.

You may have pH rise for up to 18-24 months with new plaster.

Cam13 said:
possibly b using flocculent to bind the CYA to larger debris particles, then manually vacuuming the particles out.

This will not work...PLEASE do not use flocculent...

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

PoolStored said:
Yes. Perfectly safe for you and equipment...will not cause irritation of any sort.

Awesome!

PoolStored said:
You may have pH rise for up to 18-24 months with new plaster.

Good to know - I'll keep tabs on it and see if PH begins to settle between the next 6 -12 months.

PoolStored said:
This will not work...PLEASE do not use flocculent...

This was my last resort because I've seen many others suggest that this either won't work entirely or will not be worth the effort and potential issues it would cause.

One question I did have in regards to Cal-Hypo. How often would you recommend using that? I've seen suggestions of using it weekly for maintenance or others who say to use it only when needed (after heavy rainfall with lots of debris getting into the pool or at the start of an algae bloom to kill it quickly before it gets worse). I'm assuming this will add more calcium hardness to the water the more I use it, right? Should I just be using liquid chlorine a few times a week to keep my FC in the 9-11 range and only use Cal-Hypo on an "as needed" basis?

Newdude · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
I'm assuming this will add more calcium hardness to the water the more I use it, right?

It will.

Cam13 said:
How often would you recommend using that?

Only when you need calcium and chlorine.

Cam13 said:
I've seen suggestions of using it weekly for maintenance

They let the sanitation go and need to over correct it weekly. It rarely ends well. Keep your pool sanitized by following the FC/CYA Levels and you'll never need to shock.

Cam13 said:
heavy rainfall with lots of debris getting into the pool

Rain will only affect things proportionately. A 6 inch whopper of a storm will only dilute your average in ground pool by 10%. If you're cutting it that close to be affected, the rain/debris wasn't the problem. Again, folks tend to need to over correct from poor management.

Cam13 said:
Should I just be using liquid chlorine a few times a week to keep my FC in the 9-11 range

The sun depletes 2-4 ppm a day, even on cloudy days. It's a moving target with less on the book ends of the season and higher loss in the peak season. Think of a bell curve but for loss. Your mission is to match the daily loss, and allow some wiggle room for unplanned events such as a big storm or particularly high UV loss day, out of character with the recent trends.

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

Newdude said:
It will.

Only when you need calcium and chlorine.

They let the sanitation go and need to over correct it weekly. It rarely ends well. Keep your pool sanitized by following the FC/CYA Levels and you'll never need to shock.

Rain will only affect things proportionately. A 6 inch whopper of a storm will only dilute your average in ground pool by 10%. If you're cutting it that close to be affected, the rain/debris wasn't the problem. Again, folks tend to need to over correct from poor management.

The sun depletes 2-4 ppm a day, even on cloudy days. It's a moving target with less on the book ends of the season and higher loss in the peak season. Think of a bell curve but for loss. Your mission is to match the daily loss, and allow some wiggle room for unplanned events such as a big storm or particularly high UV loss day, out of character with the recent trends.

This makes a lot of sense. I'll just be sure to keep FC between the proper range based on the link you provided and I should be good to go. Thank you for the helpful info.

Newdude · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
I'll just be sure to keep FC between the proper range based on the link you provided and I should be good to go

If you want easy mode, and the ability to not need to monitor it as closely, we cordially invite you to join #teamrunhot. Dose over target range to land safely back in target range after the daily loss. It leaves plenty of room for the universe to throw curveballs at you. She's got a wicked slider too.

Look at that chart and notice the safe to swim wiggle room between high target and slam. Then notice how little room for error there is between low target and minimum. The closer you dance with minimum, the more you have to pay attention.

Bperry · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
This was my last resort because I've seen many others suggest that this either won't work entirely or will not be worth the effort and potential issues it would cause.

None at TFP would suggest using floc to remove CYA because it doesn’t work like that. It’s not just that it doesn’t work well, it wouldn’t work at all. Floc binds to physical particles floating in the water but doesn’t do anything for dissolved stuff.

Separately from the CYA thing floc is rarely if ever needed. Only case I’ve seen it even suggested was a hurricane storm flooding the pool and they couldn’t drain the water. But even then it’s not a great solution.

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

I'll definitely check it out! Where can I find the chart?

Newdude · Sep 5, 2023

We also cordially invite you to join teamSWG. It's the bees knees to have chlorine produced on-site everyday for you.

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

Newdude said:
View attachment 527529

We also cordially invite you to join teamSWG. It's the bees knees to have chlorine produced on-site everyday for you.

View attachment 527530

Nice - is there a recommended amount you'd recommend going above the target range? I've got it at 11.5 as of today. Would 15 be better? I notice that I usually lose about 1-2 ppm of FC daily.

Newdude · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
I notice that I usually lose about 1-2 ppm of FC daily.

Use the recent daily loss as your guide. With 1-2 daily loss, dosing one over high target for your CYA is great. When you lose more during the hot parts of the season, adjust accordingly.

Is your pool covered? That's very little loss for living on the surface of the sun.

Cam13 · Sep 5, 2023

Newdude said:
Use the recent daily loss as your guide. With 1-2 daily loss, dosing one over high target for your CYA is great. When you lose more during the hot parts of the season, adjust accordingly.

Is your pool covered? That's very little loss for living on the surface of the sun.

Noted. It's not covered, but I was thinking about purchasing a cover, but wasn't sure if it would work for my pool set up since I have a raise spa attached to the pool which has spillover water that goes directly into the pool. If you have any suggestions, I'd be happy to check it out.

Newdude · Sep 5, 2023

Cam13 said:
It's not covered, but I was thinking about purchasing a cover, but wasn't sure if it would work for my pool set up since I have a raise spa attached to the pool which has spillover water that goes directly into the pool.

You could either leave the spa uncovered, or buy a small cover and cut it to fit the spa. This time of year it would likely make the water even more ridiculously warm than it is. As it cools off, it would be more appreciated then.

Solar covers work by stopping evaporation where 70% of your heat loss comes from, typically overnight. Tomorrow it's seen as a 5 degree or so 'gain', but really it's just that you didn't lose as much last night.

They work awesome to their abilities but perform no miracles. If it's unseasonably cool, the fact that the water is 66 degrees instead of the 61 it should be, is a moot point.

The thicker covers are less prone to rips, but being heavier and harder to manage, it's more likely that you'll snag it on something. So it's pretty much a wash there. Regardless of thickness, the thin bubbles are the same and the usual fail point. So we rec getting the cheapest and thinnest cover you can find, then considering it disposable. If it somehow lasts 3 seasons (or 2 by you), then that's just great.

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