Solar power installation

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jark87

jark87

Silver Supporter
Jun 5, 2011
1,201
Flower Mound, TX
Pool Size
25500
Surface
Plaster
Chlorine
Salt Water Generator
SWG Type
Jandy Aquapure 1400
Has anyone here installed solar for their home? I did a quick search and found lots of info on solar covers and some on solar powered pumps, but didn’t see anything on whole house solar. TFP members seem to be “technically” inclined, at least on this kind of subject, so I’d be interested in hearing any experiences. The 26% solar subsidy ends this year. I think it declines next year and goes away altogether after that unless Congress extends it. Any recommendations for DFW area installers would also be welcome. Thanks.
 
All I can say is that if you have to lease or finance the installation OR if your solar installer wants to do some kind of lease with a swap for the credits, it’s not worth it. My opinion, after talking with several people in the field, is that solar PV is only worth it if (A) you own the system outright with no payments AND (B) your electrical utility gives you a decent rate for power you generate that is returned to the grid. Many utilities are severely cutting back on their payments and so you get less and less benefit for power that you generate.

Adding a Power Wall or other battery storage system is pricey but may be worth it if the utility doesn’t reimburse much. Better to store and use your own power than sell it for peanuts.
 
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I have two neighbors that ended up going with Tesla for their solar and power walls. Both of them tried to be told they needed more equipment (meaning more money) when the installers showed up because they don't send anyone out for a site visit during the estimating phase. One of my neighbors still had a couple hundred dollar electric bill recently. Doesn't seem worth it to me....
 
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We had a 14.8 Kw system (40 panels) installed in March. We did finance through the solar company for 15 yrs at 1.9%. Total installed cost was $55k.

Our monthly savings has been just about what our loan payment is, $242. However, they assume that you will apply the federal tax rebate toward the loan principal within 18 months. If you do not, they reamortize your note for the full amount and your payment will go up accordingly.

Our system was sized for 80% of our utilization, and it seems to be right on par with that. So we do still pay some amount each month, but as stated we basically break even with the loan for the system. As energy prices continue to rise (our local utility just announced a rate hike!) the economics will only get better. And after the system is paid for, it's all gravy. Plus it adds to the value of your home.

One misconception I had was that we would still have power if the grid went down. But it doesn't work that way. The system shuts down if it detects that the grid is down so that we aren't energizing the lines while linemen might be working on them. You can have a totally off-grid system with batteries but it's an additional cost. That wasn't my primary interest so we chose not to.

The batteries are extremely expensive (another $20-30k for our system). If we wanted a true backup system, we would be better off looking into a whole home generator instead.

We had an extremely cloudy and rainy spring this year and now the temps are over 100 for the past week, so I don't think we've seen the full potential of what the system can do yet. We have 2 A/C units and they run pretty much non-stop right now. I'm hoping for a clear and cool fall to see how low my utility bill could be.

IMG_20220302_151009197.jpg
 
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You can definitely see the low production days in April due to the weatherScreenshot_20220708-145215~2.png

Compared to JuneScreenshot_20220708-145352-970.png

You get some neat graphs and reports on your usage. I can definitely tell when my pool pump and A/C units kick on.
Screenshot_20220708-145832-125.png
 
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Just realize that there is preventative maintenance costs. Those panels don’t last forever, maybe 10 years tops before they severely degrade. My neighbor is at the 15 year mark and she has to have half of her system replaced. It was also sized for 80% usage but, with degradation, she was barely getting 50% AND paying electric bills on top of it. We live in probably the most perfect climate for solar PV (350+ sunny days per year) and even in this area solar PV is a gamble. Our utility not only announced rate hikes but also reduction in residential solar credits. They simply can’t be bothered with paying for unreliable energy that they don’t control. The utilities learned a very valuable lesson from all this and that is they will do whatever they can to protect their bottom line … no more install rebates and reductions in credit. The government may want you to go green but the utilities hate it.
 
My panels are warrantied to 85% production at 25 years. By then, I'm sure there will be a new technology available anyway.
 
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jeffchap said:
Total installed cost was $55k.
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Thanks for the detailed info! I had no idea that was the price point. I thought I’d be looking at $15k - $20k, 26% of which would be subsidized. I’ll still get estimates - hopefully phone estimates so that I don’t waste anyone’s time - but I won’t be in a position to spend that kind of cash.
 

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jark87 said:
Thanks for the detailed info! I had no idea that was the price point. I thought I’d be looking at $15k - $20k, 26% of which would be subsidized. I’ll still get estimates - hopefully phone estimates so that I don’t waste anyone’s time - but I won’t be in a position to spend that kind of cash.
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Call a couple companies out to get a quote. Our system is oversized because of the amount of electricity we use with two A/C zones and the pool. The installer had to get a special waiver from the city to put in a system larger than 10 Kw.

The guy from the utility company said this was the largest system he had ever seen. Depending upon your needs, you might get by with one roughly half this size/cost.
 
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Grid-free Energy fantasy install -

Solar PV
Power Wall Battery
Gas generator
Biogas generation plant

Solar provides power during the day and charges the PowerWall. In evening the PowerWall supplies critical circuits in the house. If the PowerWall drains down too far, the gas generator kicks in and is supplied with biogas from an anaerobic digester system that creates the gas from household food waste.

Then you just need a small maintenance staff to take care of it all 😂
 
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On a philosophical level, as opposed to financial, it sure feels good to generate our own power. If we could somehow generate our own water, I'd be all over that as well.

My system was installed in December 2012 with 36 250w panels and 36 micro-inverters. In that time, we've had 1 micro-inverter fail and be replaced under warranty.

Production year-to-date of this decade-old system is still pretty good:
solar.png
Lifetime production is naturally lumpy, but you can see little decline over 10 years. Fortunately pool season coincides with sun season:
solar2.png
 
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JoyfulNoise said:
We live in probably the most perfect climate for solar PV (350+ sunny days per year)
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Actually, you don't. Too hot where you are.

PV panels operate better when the ambient temperature is lower. The greater the delta between the air temp and the sun's photons the better the production.
JoyfulNoise said:
Those panels don’t last forever, maybe 10 years tops before they severely degrade. My neighbor is at the 15 year mark and she has to have half of her system replaced. It was also sized for 80% usage but, with degradation, she was barely getting 50% AND paying electric bills on top of it.
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Again, a consequence of living in the scorching desert. Those extreme temps cause premature wear on everything, as I'm sure you know. PV panels are known to have a life expectancy, but it's closer to 20 years than 10.
 
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Rocket J Squirrel said:
Actually, you don't. Too hot where you are.

PV panels operate better when the ambient temperature is lower. The greater the delta between the air temp and the sun's photons the better the production.

Again, a consequence of living in the scorching desert. Those extreme temps cause premature wear on everything, as I'm sure you know. PV panels are known to have a life expectancy, but it's closer to 20 years than 10.
Click to expand...

Excellent points. I’ll be sure to make those next time my nosey neighbors harp about the “wonders” of solar and why I’m not burning piles of money to put them on my roof … 😉

Point is, there’s a cost to everything and nothing is for free. It’s always best to independently research and verify the cost/benefits and look at ROI because you absolutely cannot trust anyone to hand you unbiased analyses, be it the vendor or public officials, since they all have stake in the outcome that is to their enrichment. And one should never pad an analysis with “it raises property values” because that is simply not true. I consider solar PV like a pool - it’s nice to have but you’ll likely never get your full investment back on it.
 
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My Enphase system was self installed (29 - 250 watt panels, 7.25 kW) in July 2013. The energy production has been very consistent with no noticeable fall off from year to year.

Here’s 9 years work of energy production and it’s essentially the same year over year. The small variations are due to being a wet year, or a drought year which we get more and more of now in California.

7BABE444-A387-4369-B855-4883B559D9D0.png
F41B4C0F-C689-474F-8833-79AA634A31F8.png
My system cost me about $11k after the 30% federal credit at the time.
 
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MSchutzer said:
My system cost me about $11k after the 30% federal credit at the time.
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That’s more like it! I could handle that kind of investment and would see a relatively short ROI. Like @jeffchap we have 2 AC units and of course the pool, but our monthly electric bill isn’t horrible. I know I need to gather actual usage data for quotes, so it will be interesting to see what sized system would power our home.
 
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